I'm a Christain, but I admit to crazy things in my book.
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Lexgar, the main problem I see with your explanations of how you conceive 'religion' is there is no way when you're in an 'I'm Okay, You're Okay religion' and everyone is right is how are you going to know truth? Lisa, that word is exactly right! There are 50,000 different religions (give or take 45,000 or so) and is it more important to maintain peace or knowing truth. It seems to me that if you don't want to know the truth, you might as well be playing golf on a country club green. Truth is more important that 'feeling good' inside. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Get on the road that will lead you to the truth and then you'll know what is real! Trust me when I tell you there is only one path to the truth. If you want to go to a Unitarian or Universal church, Christianity isn't there. I speak plain and to the point. I take out my scapel and cut to the chase. The question is: Do you want to know the truth in your life or do you not? Once you answer that question, we can either say welcome to our little corner of the world or thank you for dropping by. It's so simple, even a child can understand it.
Lexgar, the main problem I see with your explanations of how you conceive 'religion' is there is no way when you're in an 'I'm Okay, You're Okay religion' and everyone is right is how are you going to know truth? Lisa, that word is exactly right! There are 50,000 different religions (give or take 45,000 or so) and is it more important to maintain peace or knowing truth. It seems to me that if you don't want to know the truth, you might as well be playing golf on a country club green. Truth is more important that 'feeling good' inside. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Get on the road that will lead you to the truth and then you'll know what is real! Trust me when I tell you there is only one path to the truth. If you want to go to a Unitarian or Universal church, Christianity isn't there. I speak plain and to the point. I take out my scapel and cut to the chase. The question is: Do you want to know the truth in your life or do you not? Once you answer that question, we can either say welcome to our little corner of the world or thank you for dropping by. It's so simple, even a child can understand it.
Well OK, this offends me. I am not a child to be lectured to or an imbecile to be led by the hand in a patronizing way. I was glad to expose myself in the spirit of free exchange of ideas but you seem so sure of your truth that you prove my point for me. You brook no debate, accept no idea but your own, understand nothing but what you believe. This is why I am not a Christian, people like you who think you know. You do not know, you hope on a wing and a prayer. For your sake I hope you are right, but I think not.
I am obviously not welcome here, at least by you. Someone taught you the small courtesy to thank me for dropping by.
There is only one path to truth. I was asking if you wanted to travel down the road. No, I am not open minded. I know Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just asking if you want to know the truth, and don't understand why you don't. If you are searching, search no further.....God is here! You must have had a reason to click onto this part of the forum. What was it? We can help!
There is only one path to truth. I was asking if you wanted to travel down the road. No, I am not open minded. I know Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just asking if you want to know the truth, and don't understand why you don't. If you are searching, search no further.....God is here! You must have had a reason to click onto this part of the forum. What was it? We can help!
Unconditional love. "The greatest of these is love". Humility, servitude, acceptance, a Christ like example- Where is any of that in the quoted above? You should reconsider being open minded; Jesus was. Jesus did die for everyone, made no demands, and offered no exceptions.
While that is true, that Jesus died for everyone, He also made it clear that not everyone would accept His gift of salvation. Not everyone would find their way to heaven, not everyone would love Him back, not everyone would receive Him or those who preach in His name, not everyone would find eternal life. In fact, He said that MOST would not. Only a few would find it.
Matthew 7:14 "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
If someone speaks the truth as found in the Bible, and this offends another person, then it's the person who is offended that might not be ready to receive the truth in their own heart. This is a matter between that person and God, not the person that spoke the truth according to God's word.
If being "open minded" means that I will not speak the truth on a matter, then I can say that I'm happy to be closed minded. This is not a unitarian universalism sub-forum, this is a Christian Sub-Forum, very clearly marked by the title of the group.
If a person comes in here to read, learn, or whatever, you can expect a christian perspective and standpoint here. All are welcome to read, learn and ask questions, but we will answer in truth using the Bible as our authority.
If this offends anyone, they are welcome to leave. We are a loving group, but we are not anyone's doormat either, and we will not offer a water downed version of the truth here. I will not apologize for speaking the truth, and neither will anyone else here.
If a person is a genuine seeker of truth, he/she will find it here. If a person is seeking just "feel good" messages that everyone is saved, God is only loved and it doesn't matter what you believe, you will not find that here because that's not what the Bible actually says.
I have to laugh sometimes around here, when someone pops in that isn't a member, has never before contributed here, comes across with a post of pure judgment twords one of the members here. Where does that come from? What is the purpose of that? Just to offend.............and I'm starting to get tired of it.
People with sincere questions are welcome, hecklers are not and will be asked to leave.
Being a Christian and wanting to reach the lost and make a difference is often a dilemma. These same Christians come in a such a vast diversity if age, time with the Lord themselves, mental maturity, spiritual maturity, maturity of Godly wisdom, intelligence, personality, tact, and the list goes on. We all reach out wanting to make a difference and sometimes appear to do more harm than good.
Sometimes we desire to draw but we alienate.
Unfortunately a comment like "you should want the truth, not just be comforted" does not meet people where they are at. The truth is that alot of people would rather have comfort over truth, especially if they are hurting.
Imagine the unsaved man stranded at sea in a lifeboat for a week and the boat hits shore one evening along a stretch of beach occupied by 200 Christians holding a 4 day retreat. Tired, hungry, thirsty and in desperate need of medical attention he is stormed by the closest group to him. Now any good Christian knows that the most important thing that can be obtained, our most important need is Christ. So they all barrage the weary man with, "You need Jesus", "You must be born again", "Your belief system will lead you to hell". While these statements are true, they cannot be received. They are given from a genuine heart wanting to help but out of immaturity and ignorance.
The same scenario but our weary traveler hits the beach 75 yards south of the first example. The group closest to him rushes up and can see that he looks cold, weary, gaunt and very ill. Processing the situation a man starts barking orders to those around him. Mary call 911, you three drag that boat up closer to the fire, Jim get some dry blankets and towels, John bring water, everyone else pray now!
Who preached Jesus here?
Who will likely have a "door opened" for the Gospel to be shared?
While the statement is true "You need to be saved, you need Jesus", it is offensive to those who don't have him.
Jesus met sinners where they where at.
He interacted with them and loved them. Both in the sense that He felt love for them, and that He gave and expended it to them. He put them above Himself in priority. He was kind, genuinely concerned.
If we let them see Jesus first then there will be a greater chance that we will be able to share the truth about Him.
While the man walking around with a sign that says "Repent or Die" is technically telling the truth and God has used that tactic for very specific reasons in the past, we are called to love, to show tact and respect and concern.
Now if only I can remember all of this myself when I'm having a bad day. So we exhort and motivate and urge each other to good deeds. And remind each other who we are in Christ so that we can reach others. As has been said, not all will come. Some will come later and are part of another's harvest. Plant seeds and water, it's the only thing we can do because the genuine growth can only come from God.
Sometimes we desire to draw but we alienate.
Unfortunately a comment like "you should want the truth, not just be comforted" does not meet people where they are at. The truth is that alot of people would rather have comfort over truth, especially if they are hurting.
Imagine the unsaved man stranded at sea in a lifeboat for a week and the boat hits shore one evening along a stretch of beach occupied by 200 Christians holding a 4 day retreat. Tired, hungry, thirsty and in desperate need of medical attention he is stormed by the closest group to him. Now any good Christian knows that the most important thing that can be obtained, our most important need is Christ. So they all barrage the weary man with, "You need Jesus", "You must be born again", "Your belief system will lead you to hell". While these statements are true, they cannot be received. They are given from a genuine heart wanting to help but out of immaturity and ignorance.
The same scenario but our weary traveler hits the beach 75 yards south of the first example. The group closest to him rushes up and can see that he looks cold, weary, gaunt and very ill. Processing the situation a man starts barking orders to those around him. Mary call 911, you three drag that boat up closer to the fire, Jim get some dry blankets and towels, John bring water, everyone else pray now!
Who preached Jesus here?
Who will likely have a "door opened" for the Gospel to be shared?
While the statement is true "You need to be saved, you need Jesus", it is offensive to those who don't have him.
Jesus met sinners where they where at.
He interacted with them and loved them. Both in the sense that He felt love for them, and that He gave and expended it to them. He put them above Himself in priority. He was kind, genuinely concerned.
If we let them see Jesus first then there will be a greater chance that we will be able to share the truth about Him.
While the man walking around with a sign that says "Repent or Die" is technically telling the truth and God has used that tactic for very specific reasons in the past, we are called to love, to show tact and respect and concern.
Now if only I can remember all of this myself when I'm having a bad day. So we exhort and motivate and urge each other to good deeds. And remind each other who we are in Christ so that we can reach others. As has been said, not all will come. Some will come later and are part of another's harvest. Plant seeds and water, it's the only thing we can do because the genuine growth can only come from God.
Lisa, I was not heckling. I do happen to be a Christian, and I also happen to be aware of the fact that we are called on to keep each other in check, particularly concerning how we convey the word of God, and how we share our faith. That is what I did.
As for being a random non-member, sorry? I have an interest in theology, certainly where it meets with my own faith, so I do find myself reading through threads in this corner of the forum. I am often attracted to subjects, and more often than not, I leave without a comment. I do so because I don't get a sense that this group has much of a use for conjecture. I only left a comment this time because of the reception Lexgar was receiving. It pains me to see anyone with an earnest spirit being flatly dismissed, and it pains me to see a Christian flatly dismissing anyone.
As for your stance about the "Christian perspective" offered here, I feel you should be told that your interpretation of a "Christian perspective" is quite narrow. I have a perspective as a Christian, first nurtured as a missionaries kid raised in the south pacific. Poor missionaries, mind you, living in tents. Ah yes, those were the days... Catholic missionaries always ate better, and the non-denominational missionaries always had better tans, but I digress. It pays to bear in mind that no one has "THE Christian Perspective", only "A Christians Perspective".
Lastly, I'll speak to the "few will find it" note. You are as much a part of the ratio as I am, and as the non-believers are. You hold sway over how many people are attracted to faith by your example, and how many are repelled by it. If it is a sin not to speak the truth, then it is also a sin to speak the truth harshly, artlessly, or without compassion. We will all be held accountable for the things we have done in the name of God, and with the name of God, and I have a strong feeling that the most pious and sanctimonious of our number will garner a very harsh reception at the pearly gates.
eHuman, I dig your post
As for being a random non-member, sorry? I have an interest in theology, certainly where it meets with my own faith, so I do find myself reading through threads in this corner of the forum. I am often attracted to subjects, and more often than not, I leave without a comment. I do so because I don't get a sense that this group has much of a use for conjecture. I only left a comment this time because of the reception Lexgar was receiving. It pains me to see anyone with an earnest spirit being flatly dismissed, and it pains me to see a Christian flatly dismissing anyone.
As for your stance about the "Christian perspective" offered here, I feel you should be told that your interpretation of a "Christian perspective" is quite narrow. I have a perspective as a Christian, first nurtured as a missionaries kid raised in the south pacific. Poor missionaries, mind you, living in tents. Ah yes, those were the days... Catholic missionaries always ate better, and the non-denominational missionaries always had better tans, but I digress. It pays to bear in mind that no one has "THE Christian Perspective", only "A Christians Perspective".
Lastly, I'll speak to the "few will find it" note. You are as much a part of the ratio as I am, and as the non-believers are. You hold sway over how many people are attracted to faith by your example, and how many are repelled by it. If it is a sin not to speak the truth, then it is also a sin to speak the truth harshly, artlessly, or without compassion. We will all be held accountable for the things we have done in the name of God, and with the name of God, and I have a strong feeling that the most pious and sanctimonious of our number will garner a very harsh reception at the pearly gates.
eHuman, I dig your post
Great post ehuman, and I agree 150% unless the person does a "post drive by" and just comes in here to throw rocks at us. Yes, it's happened.....it's still happening.....that stuff won't be tolerated.
A person who has sincere questions, or seekers, aren't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the "Drive by's" who post and run and are only here to insult and cause trouble.
We are to love, but not allow ourselves to be abused either, and I won't tolerate it.
A person who has sincere questions, or seekers, aren't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the "Drive by's" who post and run and are only here to insult and cause trouble.
We are to love, but not allow ourselves to be abused either, and I won't tolerate it.
Lisa, I was not heckling. I do happen to be a Christian, and I also happen to be aware of the fact that we are called on to keep each other in check, particularly concerning how we convey the word of God, and how we share our faith. That is what I did.
As for being a random non-member, sorry? I have an interest in theology, certainly where it meets with my own faith, so I do find myself reading through threads in this corner of the forum. I am often attracted to subjects, and more often than not, I leave without a comment. I do so because I don't get a sense that this group has much of a use for conjecture. I only left a comment this time because of the reception Lexgar was receiving. It pains me to see anyone with an earnest spirit being flatly dismissed, and it pains me to see a Christian flatly dismissing anyone.
As for your stance about the "Christian perspective" offered here, I feel you should be told that your interpretation of a "Christian perspective" is quite narrow. I have a perspective as a Christian, first nurtured as a missionaries kid raised in the south pacific. Poor missionaries, mind you, living in tents. Ah yes, those were the days... Catholic missionaries always ate better, and the non-denominational missionaries always had better tans, but I digress. It pays to bear in mind that no one has "THE Christian Perspective", only "A Christians Perspective".
Lastly, I'll speak to the "few will find it" note. You are as much a part of the ratio as I am, and as the non-believers are. You hold sway over how many people are attracted to faith by your example, and how many are repelled by it. If it is a sin not to speak the truth, then it is also a sin to speak the truth harshly, artlessly, or without compassion. We will all be held accountable for the things we have done in the name of God, and with the name of God, and I have a strong feeling that the most pious and sanctimonious of our number will garner a very harsh reception at the pearly gates.
eHuman, I dig your post
Mr. Stick, the only person I see here being harsh and judgmental is you.
All this because I bluntly asked if someone wanted to know the truth. WTG LISA!!! I'm not as gentle as Lisa. I cut to the chase. Do you....or don't you? If you do, I'll be so excited to tell you about Jesus!!!! If you are here to point fingers, lamblast, and chew out people who clearly want to Praise their God, then I have no time for you. When you are more serious about it, I'll be more than happy to walk you through what I know.
You see, folks, I don't know if you've kept up with everything that is going on, but the latest sport is Christian bashing......yep, it's on all the channels on tv. So when we ask you if you are serious about seeking out truth, we're really asking, "Do you mean it, or are you going to bash us to see how much we'll take before we stand up and rebuke you." Yes, we love you all, and we don't wish for any of you to go through what is coming, because you have no idea how awful it's going to be to live without a chance of redemption from Jesus. It'll be too late. The bad part of it is that you'll have known the truth and turned it down.....you will be accountable, and I don't want that for any of you. God gave you free choice....it'll be your choice, not ours. You had better make sure you're right. Are you?
You see, folks, I don't know if you've kept up with everything that is going on, but the latest sport is Christian bashing......yep, it's on all the channels on tv. So when we ask you if you are serious about seeking out truth, we're really asking, "Do you mean it, or are you going to bash us to see how much we'll take before we stand up and rebuke you." Yes, we love you all, and we don't wish for any of you to go through what is coming, because you have no idea how awful it's going to be to live without a chance of redemption from Jesus. It'll be too late. The bad part of it is that you'll have known the truth and turned it down.....you will be accountable, and I don't want that for any of you. God gave you free choice....it'll be your choice, not ours. You had better make sure you're right. Are you?
I'm only posting again to respond to your "christian bashing" line. I am a christian! I am not christian bashing! I was calling you to consider your approach, and ask yourself if there was a better way. So many Christians fall into defensiveness when they are checked by other Christians, and that is what has happened here. You are not being bashed, you are not being persecuted, but you certainly are being confronted by another believer who feels that you are a little off base in the way you addressed another. Take that, think about it, and get back to it later. Jesus had a short story collection of parables to dispense because he understood that "Too bad, going to hell" is, in a foregone way, radically inappropriate. The very "truth" in "repent now!" is skewed, as you and I have no idea how many more years the person we are addressing will enjoy, nor are we privy to the reason they will choose to be saved. I am not telling you to be "open minded", but to think as if it was not so terrible a thing. I am asking, for the sake of all the faithful, that you consider being a bit more diverse. We are not all the same, and a sword can both kill and defend. Catch my drift?
And Lisa, you are the one who brought the word "judgemental" into this, and I must insist that I have not been. I have been critical of SaintCruiser, but I have done so in accordance with what is directed of Christians. We are supposed to keep each other in check, in a spirit of love, and I do that. I will also be critical of you, if your actions necessitate it, and you are welcome to be critical of me as well, provided that you abandon pat dismissal as your weapon of choice.
So, as this is all way off topic, I must ask- are you two willing to be held accountable for your words and deeds, even if it causes disruption in this group? Can I interject without fear, among my brothers and sisters, or do I need to go elsewhere? I tried to call another believer to account, and that call was circumvented with irrelevant, defensive posturing.
You are stewards of Christ, and that is no small matter. We are stewards of Christ, and we should not take each other lightly.
This is probably the toughest thing to deal with in an open forum such as this. We have folks from all walks of life, denominations, non-denominations and not to mention as Lisa has said, those who take it serious and those who are for lack of a better word loose. Since this is true, the answer one seeks may come in many forms. I am probably one if not the most conservative hard-liner here. I don't think that just because someone is quick or short to the point that it makes them critical or anything negative. People are who they are and will continue to be who they are. To expect every Christian to deal out love mushy Bible is to expect something unreal. Jesus' own apostles were all so different. John was about love and spoke on it often but could get really tough. By reading James one wonders if James would not just as soon punch you in the chops as tell you the gospel. Yes we can respect but this "spirit of love" is open to interpretation. This is why people of like-minded faith worship together. Like-minded faith keeps down the sorts of issues. In an open floor forum? We will get our feelings hurt and feel stepped on from time to time.
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Too true, Gent, but we should not confuse "mushy" with gentle, nor should we confuse "hard line" with right. I do not make the point that we should all embrace a Unitarian sense, but that we should accept, and work with, the interpretational differences that make us what we are. I will never call a doomsayer a lunatic, but I will point out that the method is counterproductive. I will never call a happy-happy-joy-joy christian a dope, but I will beg them to see the shadows cast by the light.
We are all like minded! We may argue semantics, but the key points are gospel. We are beautifully and wonderfully made. We are all sinners, and all sins are alike, and we are all forgiven if we so choose. We are accountable to each other, for better or for worse, and we have to own up to that. We are flawed, yet forgiven, if we forgive. We are what we are, and we can divide or multiply on that basis.
We are all like minded! We may argue semantics, but the key points are gospel. We are beautifully and wonderfully made. We are all sinners, and all sins are alike, and we are all forgiven if we so choose. We are accountable to each other, for better or for worse, and we have to own up to that. We are flawed, yet forgiven, if we forgive. We are what we are, and we can divide or multiply on that basis.
Point made. I guess my point is to learn/try to learn more of the nuances of the poster in the response. In my short time here I've come to expect SC to come out strong on certain issues. I can't dismiss it or accredit it to anything. I just take it to be who/or the way she is. In turn she/they have to accept me the way I am or as you said "I'll find another place". I do however agree that we could all do better.
Mr. Stick, I am a bottom line person. I like to get to the bottom line as quickly as possible for private reasons. If you must know what they are, I'll pm you. Just let me know. I also have an ability to discern many things and most of the time I know when I'm having a knot jerked in my chain. There has been, and I'm not pointing a finger at you in the least, a great deal of spiritual warfare going on in many of our families and on the board as well. satan knows his time will be soon and he's gone into overtime. To quote that great man who many loved....Barney Fife....I wanted to 'nip it, nip it in the bud!'
You come to an established board and got upset when we didn't open arms and cry "Landsman!" I do find it a bit troubling that you expect us to accept you, as your are, yet you can't give the same courtesy. Are you an only child? Are you like your brothers and sisters? Do you lecture them when you feel your way is the only way?Remember, when you're pointing a finger, the thumb is always pointing back at you. You can like me, love me, or hate me. Those emotions are between you and God, however, as a Christian, I love you through Jesus.
SC, I would more than welcome understanding where your bottom line tendencies come from, but I will still urge you to reach out for those of us who are not of the same bent. Keep your direction, hold it close, but don't let it blind you to the directions of others. God made all of us different for a reason. We are supposed to strengthen each other on one hand, and humble each other at the same time. You are bottom line, all good and well, but you are imbalanced without the input of those of us who have a different stance. In a sense, I need you, your type, and you need me- WE are the body of Christ, if combined and cooperative.
To clarify, I did not come here looking to be instantly embraced, how did you put it? "Landsman!". I spoke up for an earnest spirit who was not accorded the kindness of a gentle, Christlike welcome. Should Christians be stern? sometimes. Should they be blunt? perhaps, depending. Should they be fearless? yes, but not to the detriment of others. We have a high bar to meet- success in poverty; joy, in the midst of sorrow; open arms where they are not welcomed; love, in the midst of hate; understanding beyond our own understanding- the peace that passes understanding.
I'm new here, commenting, but I am not new to the faith, to the travesties committed in its name, the world of sorrows it heals, the lies it perpetuates, or the truth it offers as a salve. I have seen what the faithful can accomplish, and I have seen what they can abandon.
The world is a very big world, and God is a very big God, and we should not be so quick to relegate that to a rubber stamp "not welcome", when it suits our egos.
To clarify, I did not come here looking to be instantly embraced, how did you put it? "Landsman!". I spoke up for an earnest spirit who was not accorded the kindness of a gentle, Christlike welcome. Should Christians be stern? sometimes. Should they be blunt? perhaps, depending. Should they be fearless? yes, but not to the detriment of others. We have a high bar to meet- success in poverty; joy, in the midst of sorrow; open arms where they are not welcomed; love, in the midst of hate; understanding beyond our own understanding- the peace that passes understanding.
I'm new here, commenting, but I am not new to the faith, to the travesties committed in its name, the world of sorrows it heals, the lies it perpetuates, or the truth it offers as a salve. I have seen what the faithful can accomplish, and I have seen what they can abandon.
The world is a very big world, and God is a very big God, and we should not be so quick to relegate that to a rubber stamp "not welcome", when it suits our egos.
To be truly honest here, I too have cringed a few times with the harsh responses to people who are trying to find answers. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is here...I am torn. Seriously it saddens me.....The message is, "It's my way or the highway." There has got to be a better way to answer those that may come across as judgmental to us Christians. To share the light of truth without condemning. If they are looking to find answers, maybe they are testing whether they will get love or railing in return...
I am reminded of how Jesus dealt with the soldier that was going to lead him to his demise, Peter cut off the man's ear...Jesus healed it. Now, if anyone was being persecuted for no good reason, it was the Lord....and...what was his response? And what did he tell us about love?
John 13 (NASB)
34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Matthew 5 (The Message)
1-2 When Jesus saw his ministry drawing huge crowds, he climbed a hillside. Those who were apprenticed to him, the committed, climbed with him. Arriving at a quiet place, he sat down and taught his climbing companions. This is what he said:
3"You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.
4"You're blessed when you feel you've lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be embraced by the One most dear to you.
5"You're blessed when you're content with just who you areno more, no less. That's the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can't be bought.
6"You're blessed when you've worked up a good appetite for God. He's food and drink in the best meal you'll ever eat.
7"You're blessed when you care. At the moment of being 'care-full,' you find yourselves cared for.
8"You're blessed when you get your inside worldyour mind and heartput right. Then you can see God in the outside world.
9"You're blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That's when you discover who you really are, and your place in God's family.
10"You're blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God's kingdom.
11-12"Not only thatcount yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happensgive a cheer, even!for though they don't like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble.
13"Let me tell you why you are here. You're here to be salt-seasoning that brings out the God-flavors of this earth. If you lose your saltiness, how will people taste godliness? You've lost your usefulness and will end up in the garbage.
14-16"Here's another way to put it: You're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world. God is not a secret to be kept. We're going public with this, as public as a city on a hill. If I make you light-bearers, you don't think I'm going to hide you under a bucket, do you? I'm putting you on a light stand. Now that I've put you there on a hilltop, on a light standshine! Keep open house; be generous with your lives. By opening up to others, you'll prompt people to open up with God, this generous Father in heaven.
17-18"Don't suppose for a minute that I have come to demolish the Scriptures either God's Law or the Prophets. I'm not here to demolish but to complete. I am going to put it all together, pull it all together in a vast panorama. God's Law is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet. Long after stars burn out and earth wears out, God's Law will be alive and working.
19-20"Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.
21-22"You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder.' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill.
23-24"This is how I want you to conduct yourself in these matters. If you enter your place of worship and, about to make an offering, you suddenly remember a grudge a friend has against you, abandon your offering, leave immediately, go to this friend and make things right. Then and only then, come back and work things out with God.
25-26"Or say you're out on the street and an old enemy accosts you. Don't lose a minute. Make the first move; make things right with him. After all, if you leave the first move to him, knowing his track record, you're likely to end up in court, maybe even jail. If that happens, you won't get out without a stiff fine.
27-28"You know the next commandment pretty well, too: 'Don't go to bed with another's spouse.' But don't think you've preserved your virtue simply by staying out of bed. Your heart can be corrupted by lust even quicker than your body. Those leering looks you think nobody noticesthey also corrupt.
29-30"Let's not pretend this is easier than it really is. If you want to live a morally pure life, here's what you have to do: You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump.
33-37"And don't say anything you don't mean. This counsel is embedded deep in our traditions. You only make things worse when you lay down a smoke screen of pious talk, saying, 'I'll pray for you,' and never doing it, or saying, 'God be with you,' and not meaning it. You don't make your words true by embellishing them with religious lace. In making your speech sound more religious, it becomes less true. Just say 'yes' and 'no.' When you manipulate words to get your own way, you go wrong.
38-42"Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.
43-47"You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.' I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his bestthe sun to warm and the rain to nourishto everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that. If you simply say hello to those who greet you, do you expect a medal? Any run-of-the-mill sinner does that.
48"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."
End
I have read things on this forum that literally make me want to tear my hear out...and a good amount of those messages came from fellow believers. There have been times when I have composed a message out of frustration...only to be checked by the Holy Spirit and had to hit the delete button....and in hindsight, so happy I did. I know the Holy Spirit is using these issues as a learning lesson for us all, I pray the Lord be fully glorified in our struggle here.
I just wonder if we realize that when we accuse, rail, belittle one another how much damage we are doing to the body of Christ? Have we just smashed the big toe with the hammer of our pride? Blinded an eye with a spit wad? Or pierced the heart with a dart of wrath?
Our own toe
Our own eye
Our own heart
We are the body of Christ!
We wrestle NOT against FLESH and BLOOD....while we are fighting EACH OTHER, Satan laughs!
Is it easier to trash each other than to take the issue with your brother before the Lord?
He is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle....is our garment shredded? Does it need repair?
Let he who has an ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
We need to humble ourselves here folks and start praying like never before for one another.....Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Baptist, Church of God, Pentecostal, insert church here....We are not the ones that will determine who reaches the Pearly Gates...
Then maybe, just maybe those that are seeking the light of Jesus will find it....when we are no longer shredding one another, trying to prove who has the superior knowledge.
I claim to know nothing but Christ and Him CRUCIFIED!
Jesus was born in a manger, rode a donkey, forgave an adulterous woman, healed the ear of his enemy and asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him.
I thank you all for this learning lesson...it is moving me beyond myself and into the Throne Room of God...I find myself on my face before Him....it is painful, yet glorious....
Holy Spirit come
I am reminded of how Jesus dealt with the soldier that was going to lead him to his demise, Peter cut off the man's ear...Jesus healed it. Now, if anyone was being persecuted for no good reason, it was the Lord....and...what was his response? And what did he tell us about love?
John 13 (NASB)
34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Matthew 5 (The Message)
1-2 When Jesus saw his ministry drawing huge crowds, he climbed a hillside. Those who were apprenticed to him, the committed, climbed with him. Arriving at a quiet place, he sat down and taught his climbing companions. This is what he said:
3"You're blessed when you're at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.
4"You're blessed when you feel you've lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be embraced by the One most dear to you.
5"You're blessed when you're content with just who you areno more, no less. That's the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can't be bought.
6"You're blessed when you've worked up a good appetite for God. He's food and drink in the best meal you'll ever eat.
7"You're blessed when you care. At the moment of being 'care-full,' you find yourselves cared for.
8"You're blessed when you get your inside worldyour mind and heartput right. Then you can see God in the outside world.
9"You're blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That's when you discover who you really are, and your place in God's family.
10"You're blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God's kingdom.
11-12"Not only thatcount yourselves blessed every time people put you down or throw you out or speak lies about you to discredit me. What it means is that the truth is too close for comfort and they are uncomfortable. You can be glad when that happensgive a cheer, even!for though they don't like it, I do! And all heaven applauds. And know that you are in good company. My prophets and witnesses have always gotten into this kind of trouble.
13"Let me tell you why you are here. You're here to be salt-seasoning that brings out the God-flavors of this earth. If you lose your saltiness, how will people taste godliness? You've lost your usefulness and will end up in the garbage.
14-16"Here's another way to put it: You're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world. God is not a secret to be kept. We're going public with this, as public as a city on a hill. If I make you light-bearers, you don't think I'm going to hide you under a bucket, do you? I'm putting you on a light stand. Now that I've put you there on a hilltop, on a light standshine! Keep open house; be generous with your lives. By opening up to others, you'll prompt people to open up with God, this generous Father in heaven.
17-18"Don't suppose for a minute that I have come to demolish the Scriptures either God's Law or the Prophets. I'm not here to demolish but to complete. I am going to put it all together, pull it all together in a vast panorama. God's Law is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet. Long after stars burn out and earth wears out, God's Law will be alive and working.
19-20"Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.
21-22"You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder.' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill.
23-24"This is how I want you to conduct yourself in these matters. If you enter your place of worship and, about to make an offering, you suddenly remember a grudge a friend has against you, abandon your offering, leave immediately, go to this friend and make things right. Then and only then, come back and work things out with God.
25-26"Or say you're out on the street and an old enemy accosts you. Don't lose a minute. Make the first move; make things right with him. After all, if you leave the first move to him, knowing his track record, you're likely to end up in court, maybe even jail. If that happens, you won't get out without a stiff fine.
27-28"You know the next commandment pretty well, too: 'Don't go to bed with another's spouse.' But don't think you've preserved your virtue simply by staying out of bed. Your heart can be corrupted by lust even quicker than your body. Those leering looks you think nobody noticesthey also corrupt.
29-30"Let's not pretend this is easier than it really is. If you want to live a morally pure life, here's what you have to do: You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump.
33-37"And don't say anything you don't mean. This counsel is embedded deep in our traditions. You only make things worse when you lay down a smoke screen of pious talk, saying, 'I'll pray for you,' and never doing it, or saying, 'God be with you,' and not meaning it. You don't make your words true by embellishing them with religious lace. In making your speech sound more religious, it becomes less true. Just say 'yes' and 'no.' When you manipulate words to get your own way, you go wrong.
38-42"Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.
43-47"You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.' I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his bestthe sun to warm and the rain to nourishto everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that. If you simply say hello to those who greet you, do you expect a medal? Any run-of-the-mill sinner does that.
48"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."
End
I have read things on this forum that literally make me want to tear my hear out...and a good amount of those messages came from fellow believers. There have been times when I have composed a message out of frustration...only to be checked by the Holy Spirit and had to hit the delete button....and in hindsight, so happy I did. I know the Holy Spirit is using these issues as a learning lesson for us all, I pray the Lord be fully glorified in our struggle here.
I just wonder if we realize that when we accuse, rail, belittle one another how much damage we are doing to the body of Christ? Have we just smashed the big toe with the hammer of our pride? Blinded an eye with a spit wad? Or pierced the heart with a dart of wrath?
Our own toe
Our own eye
Our own heart
We are the body of Christ!
We wrestle NOT against FLESH and BLOOD....while we are fighting EACH OTHER, Satan laughs!
Is it easier to trash each other than to take the issue with your brother before the Lord?
He is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle....is our garment shredded? Does it need repair?
Let he who has an ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
We need to humble ourselves here folks and start praying like never before for one another.....Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Baptist, Church of God, Pentecostal, insert church here....We are not the ones that will determine who reaches the Pearly Gates...
Then maybe, just maybe those that are seeking the light of Jesus will find it....when we are no longer shredding one another, trying to prove who has the superior knowledge.
I claim to know nothing but Christ and Him CRUCIFIED!
Jesus was born in a manger, rode a donkey, forgave an adulterous woman, healed the ear of his enemy and asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him.
I thank you all for this learning lesson...it is moving me beyond myself and into the Throne Room of God...I find myself on my face before Him....it is painful, yet glorious....
Holy Spirit come
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