I'm a Christain, but I admit to crazy things in my book.

[Bigham1]

Rightly said Bigham1... rightly said. I'm sorry to announce however, that some of us believers came to the knowledge of Christ and exposure to the Bible at such young & tender agesn it seems we have ALWAYS believed and never grappled with some of the 'harder' scriptures that some believers apparently do. We're not perfected Creatures in Christ, just lovers of Him. We're admonished to use His word to instruct and reprove, but to do so in LOVE. Being imperfect in this Earthly flesh we fall very short of the mark more times than we care to admit. I wish I could say I once thought a lot of the stuff in the Bible was mumbo jumbo, but I honestly can't.. so forgive me if I can't 'relate' fully to those who do.

Well I was always a believer but I didn't know which faith to believe in. Which led me to explore many religions. I still struggle with understanding the bible to this day. So I often ask some off the wall questions. In order to get a better understanding and to get closer to God and the truth.

 

[blondeambition3]

Lisa,

Like someone said in this post that God never did anything bad. But I remember that God made a promise to Noah saying that he would never destroy the earth again. By reading that you can come to the conclusion that God might have made a mistake.

That would be me.... *(and I still 'approve' that message.. lol)

Yes, if "I" were God, I would have corrected the only mistake I hear most People say he made, and that would be to have taken away our FREE WILL and thus make all of you worship me like the Automatons and robots ya'all should have been.. or could have been.. (lol)

Now, Aren't ya'all glad that I'm not God?

 

[LisaLisa]

That would be me.... *(and I still 'approve' that message.. lol)

Yes, if "I" were God, I would have corrected the only mistake I hear most People say he made, and that would be to have taken away our FREE WILL and thus make all of you worship me like the Automatons and robots ya'all should have been.. or could have been.. (lol)

Now, Aren't ya'all glad that I'm not God?

LOL Blonde!!!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

Well I was always a believer but I didn't know which faith to believe in. Which led me to explore many religions. I still struggle with understanding the bible to this day. So I often ask some off the wall questions. In order to get a better understanding and to get closer to God and the truth.

'seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened'....

 

[Bigham1]

No, it's ok Bigham, it's all good. I didn't come to the conclusion that God made a mistake. I came to the conclusion that man made a big mistake and it caused God to feel hurt and pain as a result.

Well you can look at it this way. If I told you that I would never steal from you again. You would assume that I had made a mistake in stealing from you in the first place. But thats neither here nor there. I understand why he did it.

 

[Bigham1]

'seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened'....

And I truly think that is what this person is trying to do.

 

[LisaLisa]

Well you can look at it this way. If I told you that I would never steal from you again. You would assume that I had made a mistake in stealing from you in the first place. But thats neither here nor there. I understand why he did it.

To tell you the truth, we are so fortunate that God is so patient with us. I mean, turn on the news and watch the terrible things that go on in the world. This causes Him such great pain, and yet because of His love for us, He waits........waits until all of His children are gathered together to Him before He finally puts an end to all of the wickedness, evil, pain, domination and suffering.

 

[eHuman]

I'm gonna say this here and now because I've seen it and believe it.

About DaMulta's questioning of the portions of scripture that he doesn't understand or doesn't make sense...
1. Is a test for those Christian's in audience to speak the truth in love, desiring his growth and trusting that God will do more than draw him. And not to fall into the pit of railing against him for being as ignorant as anyone else here was before God descided to let us in on the plan by opening our eyes. We can't cause anyone to believe only God can. We are charged with "attempting to" by reasoning and sharing with each other but only God changes the heart. The anger of man does not equal the righteousness of God.
2. Because DaMulta refuses to merely "go with the flow" or accept it "just because it's being spooned out" there is a potential blessing there ironically. There are more than enough churches and pastors world wide that bend and flex and use the Bible for their own gain, and many more innocently enough becaause they were taught wrong. The truth matters to DaMulta and if God determines to open his eyes then look out. There you will find someone who refuses to allow the word to be misrepresented just to make a good point.

The Word of God causes faith. Water it down and it can still cause faith. Refuse to water it down, care about preserving and representing it accurately and watch what God does all around that person.

I can remember my own days of saying "WHAT!?!?!" or noticing that 3/4 of the people in churches are actually hypocrits... Then realizing that I was a hypocrit. And then God opening my eyes one day and changing my life forever.

Go easy fellow Christian's, DaMulta may be yours or my test from God. Give him a reason to be drawn to those of us calling ourselves followers.

 

[LisaLisa]

I'm gonna say this here and now because I've seen it and believe it.

About DaMulta's questioning of the portions of scripture that he doesn't understand or doesn't make sense...
1. Is a test for those Christian's in audience to speak the truth in love, desiring his growth and trusting that God will do more than draw him. And not to fall into the pit of railing against him for being as ignorant as anyone else here was before God descided to let us in on the plan by opening our eyes. We can't cause anyone to believe only God can. We are charged with "attempting to" by reasoning and sharing with each other but only God changes the heart. The anger of man does not equal the righteousness of God.
2. Because DaMulta refuses to merely "go with the flow" or accept it "just because it's being spooned out" there is a potential blessing there ironically. There are more than enough churches and pastors world wide that bend and flex and use the Bible for their own gain, and many more innocently enough becaause they were taught wrong. The truth matters to DaMulta and if God determines to open his eyes then look out. There you will find someone who refuses to allow the word to be misrepresented just to make a good point.

The Word of God causes faith. Water it down and it can still cause faith. Refuse to water it down, care about preserving and representing it accurately and watch what God does all around that person.

I can remember my own days of saying "WHAT!?!?!" or noticing that 3/4 of the people in churches are actually hypocrits... Then realizing that I was a hypocrit. And then God opening my eyes one day and changing my life forever.

Go easy fellow Christian's, DaMulta may be yours or my test from God. Give him a reason to be drawn to those of us calling ourselves followers.

That was an AWESOME post! Thank you!

 

[Saintscruiser]

Now you are preaching my sermon. When this gets brought up some people see it as elitism. I see it as the sad truth.

I went to church for many years befire I was saved, and if you asked me before I would have told you, "Of course I'm saved". I didn't know until I was that I hadn't been.

Here is the great news about it; The unsaved in the church represent the greatest potential for harvest. They are being drawn. They have heard the Word and on some level accept it. Seeds are planted in them every time they come and hear God's Word. At the right time, God will call some of them.

Not that there aren't any outside of church that will one day become saved. But the unsaved in the church are at least open to listen and eventually hear.

Yeah, me too, E. There is a vast difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge. Been there, done that. What a shock I received.

All of these awesome posts......Glory! Glory! Glory and Love to Almighty God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit! Amein Amein Amein! WOW, what an awesome group of people!

 

[Southern Gent]

I don't ascribe to Calvinism though I do think it is much closer to the truth than Armenianism is. To be tempted is to be tested, one Greek word, two English words used depending on the translation. James describes how temptation results in sin entangling us.

James 1:13-15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. NASU

The Greek wording in this passage paints a picture of a hunter luring it's prey rather than stalking it, or as a fisherman baits a hook and tries to lure a fish from the safety of it's hiding rather than finding it and spearing it. In the case of the fishing example, it is not the worm on the end of the hook that causes the fish to be caught, it is the fish's hunger that causes him to answer the temptation of the worm.

It is not the pretty girl that causes me to sin no matter how she is dressed or not dressed, it is the wicked and lustful desire in me that answers the temptation that causes me to sin. The flip side to this lining up with what I'm painting about Jesus is; I am heterosexual and do not find the male body attractive "in that way" on any level what-so-ever. Because there is no desire in me to have sex with a man, I can be tempted, tested, baited, drawn by a homosexual but because I do not desire worms, I won't bite that hook.

That is much different than secretly desiring to be with a man but fighting off the urge and saying no. Because in that case though I didn't sin in the flesh, I had already committed sin in my heart. Jesus was tempted but He didn't sin. Jesus didn't win because he successfully fought the urge to commit homosexuality, or fornication, or murder, or robbery. Jesus was fully man but at the same time fully God. Jesus didn't sin when tempted because there was no wickedness inside Him that could cause Him to be successfully drawn to sin.

It is not the sack of unprotected money that causes me to steel, it is my greed and lack of contentedness that causes me to sin.

Jesus taught that if you merely looked upon a woman and lusted in your heart (even if you never "answered" lusts call outwardly) then you were already sinning.

The reason Jesus did not answer (the fishing example) is because He wasn't hungry for worms.

When tempted (tested) by the flesh of woman (the bait) there was no lust in His heart that caused him to answer the temptation inwardly or outwardly so as to be lead to sin. He was tempted yet without sin. Think on this carefully.

There is not enough money or property to successfully temp Him because He is not greedy, and He owns everything. He was tempted, yet without sin.

When Satan said, "bow down to me and I will give you all of these things" (and all of the other temptations), Jesus was tested or tempted, but did not pursue the bait because the sin nature was not inside of Him so as to be able to be drawn to commit sin. He didn't "wrestle" with the idea and choose to ignore the "pulling in His heart to worship Satan". There was no wickedness in Him that would allow it.

I give you this by way of condensing much study and information that would be impossible to type here. But I will bring my point home by saying this:
Your conclusion leaves Jesus sinning in His heart on every count that He was tested on.

We live in a fallen world.
We have a tempter (Satan) trying us at every angle
We live under a fallen (sin) nature that causes us to want everything that God deems as sin, whether we actually pursue it or not.

The sin nature is what was missing in Jesus. All three will be missing in us when the whole story is done.

Does all of that mean that He couldn't relate to us or have compassion for or common ground with us? Not at all.

He was 100% physical man with the 100% nature of God, not man's fallen nature.

I know the doctrine well. I don't personally ascribe or believe in it.

 

[Bigham1]

I'm gonna say this here and now because I've seen it and believe it.

About DaMulta's questioning of the portions of scripture that he doesn't understand or doesn't make sense...
1. Is a test for those Christian's in audience to speak the truth in love, desiring his growth and trusting that God will do more than draw him. And not to fall into the pit of railing against him for being as ignorant as anyone else here was before God descided to let us in on the plan by opening our eyes. We can't cause anyone to believe only God can. We are charged with "attempting to" by reasoning and sharing with each other but only God changes the heart. The anger of man does not equal the righteousness of God.
2. Because DaMulta refuses to merely "go with the flow" or accept it "just because it's being spooned out" there is a potential blessing there ironically. There are more than enough churches and pastors world wide that bend and flex and use the Bible for their own gain, and many more innocently enough becaause they were taught wrong. The truth matters to DaMulta and if God determines to open his eyes then look out. There you will find someone who refuses to allow the word to be misrepresented just to make a good point.

The Word of God causes faith. Water it down and it can still cause faith. Refuse to water it down, care about preserving and representing it accurately and watch what God does all around that person.

I can remember my own days of saying "WHAT!?!?!" or noticing that 3/4 of the people in churches are actually hypocrits... Then realizing that I was a hypocrit. And then God opening my eyes one day and changing my life forever.

Go easy fellow Christian's, DaMulta may be yours or my test from God. Give him a reason to be drawn to those of us calling ourselves followers.

This is just a thought! But maybe he is here to strengthen our faith and get us to study and learn a little more.

 

[eHuman]

I know the doctrine well. I don't personally ascribe or believe in it.

I'm not trying to be smart here, you don't ascribe or believe in Calvanism or James? Which doctrine did you mean?

 

[Southern Gent]

I'm not trying to be smart here, you don't ascribe or believe in Calvanism or James? Which doctrine did you mean?

Absolutely no denominational doctrine whatsoever. If you do that's fine and I'm not condemning you in the least. My point in the immediate is that there may have been those here who are unaware of the doctrine and need to be made aware. If they choose to adhere to the doctrine that's quite alright but they reserve the right to know what it is and be able to investigate it for themselves.

 

[eHuman]

This is just a thought! But maybe he is here to strengthen our faith and get us to study and learn a little more.

Whether that's his purpose or not, wouldn't it be cool if that were always the outcome anyways?

The further I come the more I understand how little I understand. May sound cliche but it is true.

 

[eHuman]

Absolutely no denominational doctrine whatsoever. If you do that's fine and I'm not condemning you in the least. My point in the immediate is that there may have been those here who are unaware of the doctrine and need to be made aware. If they choose to adhere to the doctrine that's quite alright but they reserve the right to know what it is and be able to investigate it for themselves.

Gotcha, you meant denominational stances or viewpoints specific to a denomination? I must admit (guess i'm still not clear on which doctrine you meant) I thought at first that you were saying that you didn't agree that Jesus had the nature of God ()The whole reason that the imaculate conception was necessary), but instead had the fallen sinful nature inherited from the fall of Adam. <<<< If that's what you are saying then we just discovered an area that can be talked about and reasoned over.

I too am non denominational and study the Word from Hebrew and Greek because the English language loses subtle things (and sometimes big things) in the translation.

Every Christian has doctrine, but not all have a denomination.

 

[Southern Gent]

Gotcha, you meant denominational stances or viewpoints specific to a denomination?

I too am non denominational and study the Word from Hebrew and Greek because the English language loses subtle things (and sometimes big things) in the translation.

Every Christian has doctrine, but not all have a denomination.

Indeed
Indeed
and
Indeed

I do not believe in the doctrine of original sin but let's not muddle the thread. There we will be plenty of time during our studies. I feared we had lost a brother over a debate that broke out in another thread but God was with us. Deal with our questioner and we'll all get back to this later.

 

[lmrasch]

Wow...I step out of the room for the day and you're all partying in here without me, lol! So much learning through reading all the wonderful and thoughtful responses.

DaMulta, I am glad that you are so transparent about your frustrations with God, fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It isn't by the wisdom of man, but truth from the Holy Spirit who opens our spiritual eyes and reveals the mysteries of God.

My grandmother had the same issues with the immaculate conception...just couldn't wrap her head around it. She eventually found her way and when she passed she had a smile bigger than the state of Texas on her face .....

God is gracious and merciful and He loves you more than you will ever understand....keep seeking and you WILL find....

I really am blessed to be among you ALL

 

[DaMulta]

This thread proves my point a little. All the praise, but on questions of why the evil(so called evil)acts of God towards some people?

It's like but there is good in the Bible....Yea, but there is a lot of Evil in my eyes also.

The Crusades may of not been bad after all. I mean in the Bible it speaks of it's OK by God then it's A O K. Maybe God talked to those priest in England that sent them on a killing spree not too long ago....or when Christians came to south/North America killing again in Gods name.

I guess we as good Christians really shouldn't stop that practice.



You get what I'm trying to say? Now I don't really see that as my God, but it's in the book the word of Jesus written by man so to say. Yet, I'm left wondering if some of it was not the Devil himself pretending to be God to have it added into the good book.

 

[Southern Gent]

The Crusades may of not been bad after all. I mean in the Bible it speaks of it's OK by God then it's A O K. Maybe God talked to those priest in England that sent them on a killing spree not too long ago....or when Christians came to south/North America killing again in Gods name.

I guess we as good Christians really shouldn't stop that practice.

Not everything done in the "name of God" has God's blessing. In fact we are warned as Christians against retribution and retaliation. God says of today to leave it alone because "vengeance is mine". Granted that many of the OT battles that you spoke of earlier were bloody and brutal. Upon closer inspection we find that each of those conflicts were either for His or His chosen peoples purpose. We often confuse our "NT God" as being someone different from that of the OT God. He is the same and eHuman did an excellent job of giving you some backbone information as why God is less "hands on" as He was during OT times. If you as a Christian were to go out and blow up an abortion clinic and kill 50 people and claim that God told you to do it...you would be a liar...period. God offered you no such council and yet you would have acted under His name to do evil. There will always be evil in this world until it is over. We seem to forget that there is another player in this game named Satan. Yes there were slaughters of peoples with God's hand involved. Does that make them right or wrong? In God's eyes they were just and in many of the cases that you mentioned earlier they were final judgment. However not every atrocity attributed to God has God's fingerprints or His blessing.