I'm an ANTZ, you're an ANTZ, kiss me!
- Thread starter Steam Turbine
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I never said you called anyone a zealot. I was just stating my position on the topic.WOW, so serious. I have called no one a zealot, but yet I am one? Mirror. Maybe you didn't mean it the way I take it, but it sure looks like it to me.
All is good.
P.S. I just got an infraction for a post in this thread. LOL! Discontent is to be expressed privately...
Not much you can do about it. I got harassed with ANTZ accusations for my first couple of weeks on here. Yes, I approach new things from a critical perspective but that's because my loyalty doesn't come easy. Anyway, in my Siggy, I listed the few who would repeatedly throw out that accusation on a daily bases to someone in the forum if not me. After a couple of weeks the accusations subsided so I took it down. Then, not even a week later they started right back up again. So, I put them back on my Siggy. It said "Labeled ANTZ by this forums keenest people". Then, it listed their names with an invitation to PM them and ask them directly why I'm an Antz. Eventually, a mod made me take the Siggy down. Looks like I'm wrong for making people stand by their words. I get publicly accused over and over again yet the mods want to privately address the issue.
Is this acceptable to MODS? If, after my editing, this post is still too critical; I'd be more than happy to further obfuscate the details of my experience to avoid offending any important people.
Last edited:
As the person who coined the acronym "ANTZ," I think that puts me in an authoritative position to state what it means. Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealot means just that - someone who is so blinded by their hatred of all tobacco and nicotine that they will consider nothing less than complete elimination. I cannot think of any vapers who would fit that definition. So, anyone calling someone on ECF an "ANTZ" because they have a difference of opinion about proper public behavior while vaping or what their personally acceptable regulations would be is NOT acting as an informed and reasonable CASAA member. In no way could anyone who vapes or uses tobacco or nicotine in any form be an ANTZ unless their ultimate goal is to end all tobacco and nicotine use in the world. Anything less and they are NOT an ANTZ, so I would ask you to please stop using "my" acronym in that way.
There is a difference between an "anti" and an "ANTZ," which is why I came up with the term in the first place. An "anti" can be a lot of different things, such as anti-tobacco but not anti nicotine, anti smoking but not anti tobacco, anti tobacco and anti nicotine but pro tobacco harm reduction, anti tobacco but pro nicotine but anti vaping in public. NONE of those people are an ANTZ. Again, to be an ANTZ one is anti tobacco AND anti nicotine AND anti smoker AND anti vaper AND anti tobacco harm reduction. The goal to wipe tobacco and nicotine from the face of the Earth and not caring how you have to lie or how many people die while trying to reach that goal. If someone is not expressing that opinion, please do NOT call them an "ANTZ!"
That said, there is also a difference between saying someone IS an ANTZ and saying that what they are saying is representative of ANTZ logic (ie. sounds like something an ANTZ would say.) By saying something like, "We need to eliminate tobacco from the face of the Earth and substitute vaping," the first part IS something an ANTZ would say. That doesn't mean the vaper saying it IS an ANTZ, but they may want to reconsider that they are inadvertently supporting the ANTZ agenda, because they don't apparently realize that once tobacco is eliminated, the ANTZ won't stop there. But people need to be clear that that they are saying "ANTZ-sounding" rather than accusing the person of actually BEING an ANTZ.
As far as "CASAA representatives" being aggressive or rude, I want to stress again that the only people who officially represent CASAA are the members of the board of directors. Regular members - even regional reps - do not represent CASAA. Even a regional rep is only someone who is willing to watch their area and report to the board. They are INTERNAL representatives TO the CASAA board, not CASAA representatives to the outside world.
Finally, if you judge CASAA based on what you see in this small corner of the world, on this forum, then that is your own mistake. Some CASAA members may be very active here, but there is a large world out there where CASAA is being active. Our Facebook and Skype groups and member meetings are far more representative of what CASAA does than what happens here on ECF. If you're going to judge CASAA on its members' actions, I respectfully request that you make that judgement based on more than the actions of a few outspoken members (out of nearly 10,000 CASAA members) you see posting here. Judging CASAA on such a small sampling of people in a microcosom such as an e-cig forum is not exactly giving you the full picture of CASAA as an organization and it's kind of ridiculous if you think it does.
There is a difference between an "anti" and an "ANTZ," which is why I came up with the term in the first place. An "anti" can be a lot of different things, such as anti-tobacco but not anti nicotine, anti smoking but not anti tobacco, anti tobacco and anti nicotine but pro tobacco harm reduction, anti tobacco but pro nicotine but anti vaping in public. NONE of those people are an ANTZ. Again, to be an ANTZ one is anti tobacco AND anti nicotine AND anti smoker AND anti vaper AND anti tobacco harm reduction. The goal to wipe tobacco and nicotine from the face of the Earth and not caring how you have to lie or how many people die while trying to reach that goal. If someone is not expressing that opinion, please do NOT call them an "ANTZ!"
That said, there is also a difference between saying someone IS an ANTZ and saying that what they are saying is representative of ANTZ logic (ie. sounds like something an ANTZ would say.) By saying something like, "We need to eliminate tobacco from the face of the Earth and substitute vaping," the first part IS something an ANTZ would say. That doesn't mean the vaper saying it IS an ANTZ, but they may want to reconsider that they are inadvertently supporting the ANTZ agenda, because they don't apparently realize that once tobacco is eliminated, the ANTZ won't stop there. But people need to be clear that that they are saying "ANTZ-sounding" rather than accusing the person of actually BEING an ANTZ.
As far as "CASAA representatives" being aggressive or rude, I want to stress again that the only people who officially represent CASAA are the members of the board of directors. Regular members - even regional reps - do not represent CASAA. Even a regional rep is only someone who is willing to watch their area and report to the board. They are INTERNAL representatives TO the CASAA board, not CASAA representatives to the outside world.
Finally, if you judge CASAA based on what you see in this small corner of the world, on this forum, then that is your own mistake. Some CASAA members may be very active here, but there is a large world out there where CASAA is being active. Our Facebook and Skype groups and member meetings are far more representative of what CASAA does than what happens here on ECF. If you're going to judge CASAA on its members' actions, I respectfully request that you make that judgement based on more than the actions of a few outspoken members (out of nearly 10,000 CASAA members) you see posting here. Judging CASAA on such a small sampling of people in a microcosom such as an e-cig forum is not exactly giving you the full picture of CASAA as an organization and it's kind of ridiculous if you think it does.
Last edited:
Words evolve into new meanings. Acronymns can become "words" when they describe behaviors. Personally, I think name-calling is way too prevalent these days. But, I also think people are getting way, way, too touchy. Case in point is the finger-pointing going on now trying to turn a perfectly acceptable english word descriptive of behavior into a racially-charged epithet instead. IE: "Thug" So, I often use ANTZ to describe behavior. If it quacks like... etc. Its just short hand that cuts down on the wordiness of describing a behavior or mindset. I tend to be too windy (for my personal comfort) as it is and look for ways to cut that down a bit. I don't usually mean it as name-calling anymore than I use the word "thug" to indicate a race.
As the person who coined the acronym "ANTZ," I think that puts me in an authoritative position to state what it means. Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealot means just that - someone who is so blinded by their hatred of all tobacco and nicotine that they will consider nothing less than complete elimination. I cannot think of any vapers who would fit that definition. So, anyone calling someone on ECF an "ANTZ" because they have a difference of opinion about proper public behavior while vaping or what their personally acceptable regulations would be is NOT acting as an informed and reasonable CASAA member. In no way could anyone who vapes or uses tobacco or nicotine in any form be an ANTZ unless their ultimate goal is to end all tobacco and nicotine use in the world. Anything less and they are NOT an ANTZ, so I would ask you to please stop using "my" acronym in that way.
There is a difference between an "anti" and an "ANTZ," which is why I came up with the term in the first place. An "anti" can be a lot of different things, such as anti-tobacco but not anti nicotine, anti smoking but not anti tobacco, anti tobacco and anti nicotine but pro tobacco harm reduction, anti tobacco but pro nicotine but anti vaping in public. NONE of those people are an ANTZ. Again, to be an ANTZ one is anti tobacco AND anti nicotine AND anti smoker AND anti vaper AND anti tobacco harm reduction. The goal to wipe tobacco and nicotine from the face of the Earth and not caring how you have to lie or how many people die while trying to reach that goal. If someone is not expressing that opinion, please do NOT call them an "ANTZ!"
That said, there is also a difference between saying someone IS an ANTZ and saying that what they are saying is representative of ANTZ logic (ie. sounds like something an ANTZ would say.) By saying something like, "We need to eliminate tobacco from the face of the Earth and substitute vaping," the first part IS something an ANTZ would say. That doesn't mean the vaper saying it IS an ANTZ, but they may want to reconsider that they are inadvertently supporting the ANTZ agenda, because they don't apparently realize that once tobacco is eliminated, the ANTZ won't stop there. But people need to be clear that that they are saying "ANTZ-sounding" rather than accusing the person of actually BEING an ANTZ.
As far as "CASAA representatives" being aggressive or rude, I want to stress again that the only people who officially represent CASAA are the members of the board of directors. Regular members - even regional reps - do not represent CASAA. Even a regional rep is only someone who is willing to watch their area and report to the board. They are INTERNAL representatives TO the CASAA board, not CASAA representatives to the outside world.
Finally, if you judge CASAA based on what you see in this small corner of the world, on this forum, then that is your own mistake. Some CASAA members may be very active here, but there is a large world out there where CASAA is being active. Our Facebook and Skype groups and member meetings are far more representative of what CASAA does than what happens here on ECF. If you're going to judge CASAA on its members' actions, I respectfully request that you make that judgement based on more than the actions of a few outspoken members (out of nearly 10,000 CASAA members) you see posting here. Judging CASAA on such a small sampling of people in a microcosom such as an e-cig forum is not exactly giving you the full picture of CASAA as an organization and it's kind of ridiculous if you think it does.
I've seen you bounce back in forth between representing CASAA and speaking for yourself too often to keep track of which hat you have on in which post. You're actually the only CASAA Rep who's come along when ANTZ accusations get loosely thrown around. As a noob you excused such accusations made at me multiple times. You're logic was for me to have empathy because I don't know all the trouble Veterans have to put up with. Yes, the person who doesn't know or understand the situation is the one who should have empathy. Based, I assume, on that lack of knowledge. I figure it'd be easier for a Veteran to have some empathy, being since, every Veteran was once a noob. Just goes to show how illogical us ANTZ are.
whoa, this thread got serious... did i mention im allergic to ants? /endtroll
sorry, i can't help myself. Cant we all just get along?
sorry, i can't help myself. Cant we all just get along?
As the person who coined the acronym "ANTZ," I think that puts me in an authoritative position to state what it means. Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealot means just that - someone who is so blinded by their hatred of all tobacco and nicotine that they will consider nothing less than complete elimination. I cannot think of any vapers who would fit that definition. So, anyone calling someone on ECF an "ANTZ" because they have a difference of opinion about proper public behavior while vaping or what their personally acceptable regulations would be is NOT acting as an informed and reasonable CASAA member. In no way could anyone who vapes or uses tobacco or nicotine in any form be an ANTZ unless their ultimate goal is to end all tobacco and nicotine use in the world. Anything less and they are NOT an ANTZ, so I would ask you to please stop using "my" acronym in that way.
There is a difference between an "anti" and an "ANTZ," which is why I came up with the term in the first place. An "anti" can be a lot of different things, such as anti-tobacco but not anti nicotine, anti smoking but not anti tobacco, anti tobacco and anti nicotine but pro tobacco harm reduction, anti tobacco but pro nicotine but anti vaping in public. NONE of those people are an ANTZ. Again, to be an ANTZ one is anti tobacco AND anti nicotine AND anti smoker AND anti vaper AND anti tobacco harm reduction. The goal to wipe tobacco and nicotine from the face of the Earth and not caring how you have to lie or how many people die while trying to reach that goal. If someone is not expressing that opinion, please do NOT call them an "ANTZ!"
That said, there is also a difference between saying someone IS an ANTZ and saying that what they are saying is representative of ANTZ logic (ie. sounds like something an ANTZ would say.) By saying something like, "We need to eliminate tobacco from the face of the Earth and substitute vaping," the first part IS something an ANTZ would say. That doesn't mean the vaper saying it IS an ANTZ, but they may want to reconsider that they are inadvertently supporting the ANTZ agenda, because they don't apparently realize that once tobacco is eliminated, the ANTZ won't stop there. But people need to be clear that that they are saying "ANTZ-sounding" rather than accusing the person of actually BEING an ANTZ.
As far as "CASAA representatives" being aggressive or rude, I want to stress again that the only people who officially represent CASAA are the members of the board of directors. Regular members - even regional reps - do not represent CASAA. Even a regional rep is only someone who is willing to watch their area and report to the board. They are INTERNAL representatives TO the CASAA board, not CASAA representatives to the outside world.
Finally, if you judge CASAA based on what you see in this small corner of the world, on this forum, then that is your own mistake. Some CASAA members may be very active here, but there is a large world out there where CASAA is being active. Our Facebook and Skype groups and member meetings are far more representative of what CASAA does than what happens here on ECF. If you're going to judge CASAA on its members' actions, I respectfully request that you make that judgement based on more than the actions of a few outspoken members (out of nearly 10,000 CASAA members) you see posting here. Judging CASAA on such a small sampling of people in a microcosom such as an e-cig forum is not exactly giving you the full picture of CASAA as an organization and it's kind of ridiculous if you think it does.
I love the way you write. You should write professionally.
I've seen you bounce back in forth between representing CASAA and speaking for yourself too often to keep track of which hat you have on in which post. You're actually the only CASAA Rep who's come along when ANTZ accusations get loosely thrown around. As a noob you excused such accusations made at me multiple times. You're logic was for me to have empathy because I don't know all the trouble Veterans have to put up with. Yes, the person who doesn't know or understand the situation is the one who should have empathy. Based, I assume, on that lack of knowledge. I figure it'd be easier for a Veteran to have some empathy, being since, every Veteran was once a noob. Just goes to show how illogical us ANTZ are.
Congrats I would imagine this post will trigger a lock.
Oh and IBTL.
I've seen you bounce back in forth between representing CASAA and speaking for yourself too often to keep track of which hat you have on in which post. You're actually the only CASAA Rep who's come along when ANTZ accusations get loosely thrown around. As a noob you excused such accusations made at me multiple times. You're logic was for me to have empathy because I don't know all the trouble Veterans have to put up with. Yes, the person who doesn't know or understand the situation is the one who should have empathy. Based, I assume, on that lack of knowledge. I figure it'd be easier for a Veteran to have some empathy, being since, every Veteran was once a noob. Just goes to show how illogical us ANTZ are.
Why do you ignore the rest of my post and the fact that I'm on your side regarding the misuse and abuse of the term? I cannot remember exactly what I may have said to you when you were new, but I'm pretty certain no one on the BOD accused you of being an ANTZ. If you are disappointed that more directors didn't jump to your defense, I refer you back to my last post. ECF is not the center of our work. In fact, only 2 of us post here somewhat regularly and Elaine (vocalek) pretty much stays in the media/legislative forums. Most CASAA members don't post on ECF at all.
I agree new members seeking answers deserve empathy. However, empathy is usually given to "newbs" that ask questions and express the desire to learn, not to those who jump in at the start telling the veterans they don't know what they are talking about. How would you describe your attitude when you joined? Was it possibly condescending to the veterans and they took offense? That is usually the case when I see new members being "jumped on."
My gut tells me you are an intelligent man, Jay, but the more I read your posts, the more it seems you are less interested in the actual work CASAA does than you are causing conflict over the behavior of a few of its members on a discussion forum, behavior over which the BOD has no control. I'm sorry to see that, because we could use smart and articulate people like you. It would be thrilling to see the ire and criticism you aim at CASAA aimed at our mutual "enemies" instead.
Last edited:
You are correct. Jay-dub is both smart and articulate. He is a good guy, but he won't support CASAA because of whatever happened when he joined.
You have successfully clarified the proper use of the term ANTZ. I don't think you will have success with convincing Jay-dub to support CASAA.
Barely Roaring with a sore throat via Tapatalk...
You have successfully clarified the proper use of the term ANTZ. I don't think you will have success with convincing Jay-dub to support CASAA.
Barely Roaring with a sore throat via Tapatalk...
I think you both missed key points. You clearly re-iterated yours.
One element of of what Jay is saying seems to be the divisive language leads to alienating people who would otherwise be in support of your view. Some of that divisive language probably was perceived by him as being directed at him (whether correctly perceived or not).
Now I do understand that you have seen ugly elements of humanity when fighting these types of battles, as you have pointed out in different threads. I also understand that you haven't gotten as divisive as some on this board who aren't speaking on behalf of CASAA. But as a representative it might be helpful to remember some people will perceive certain wordings as having an element of hate. Hate alienates.
Penn -- Lets face the issue that we all can get a bit partisan with our views when we are attacked. ANTZ in government or ANTZ in public, no matter. Anti Tobacco shouldn't even BE and issue with vaping imo, as v-juice only contains the nicotine compound that is in tobaccos.
I feel my time is better spent on education in my own back yard.
Recently, a neighbor on seeing me vape asked the question,"What's that?" "My personal vaping device." I said.
She says."I didn't know you had asma." I said,"I don't. I quit smoking and started vaping." She says,"What's the difference?"
See the majority of people have no idea what it's all about. So I explained the best way I knew how. In layman's terms.
Last edited:
True, it is easier said than done to avoid divisive stances. That doesn't mean it isn't something we should aspire to.
Correctly educating people is the place I feel I have made the most difference. I come in contact with a lot of people. Any that show interest I will give them the truth. More than one person that absolutely hates cigarettes have heard what vaping is really about and what the ANTZ lies are just to come away saying "good for you on a wise choice" (well, something like that anyway). One of the people I talked to even works for government research. That Dr knows some peers working on the team that will report to the FDA on findings and later told me that at this time the biggest concern to the FDA is the "for the kids" concern. That one aspect can be incredibly damaging but at least the medically knowledgeable in the government are coming around to the fact that this is real harm reduction.
ETA - Are you actually in Monroe or are you a county boy?
Orion is the first constellation I can recognize when looking at the stars.
Spot on about education and yes, I'm actually IN Monroe Ga. Not a country boy, I moved here in '09 from Greenville SC.
Canis Majoris is very bright constellation and easily recognized. i would suppose that is the reason so many cultures have used it in their mythology.
So a couple of people called him a name he didn't like and he blames CASAA? I have seen a few people on here referred to as ANTZ (not Jay specifically) but when I have seen it happen, the person it was directed at was at the time arguing vehemently FOR one or more key points from the ANTZ manifesto and would not budge or even listen to an opposing viewpoint.
That said too many people are buying into this whole "politically correct" business and are getting their panties in a twist every time they hear something they don't like. They label it "hate speech" or some sort of "ism". Last time I checked, most of us live in a country that guarantees freedom of speech, NOT the freedom to never be offended. Both are mutually exclusive. We can only have one or the other. As for me I choose to keep the freedom of speech. If that means some people will occasionally get offended by someone exercising that right then they need to put on their big boy underwear and deal with it.
The bossy-pants anti-smoker ex I mentioned in the Pet Peeves thread is the one who actually first suggested e-cigs to me, because he knew I was still smoking cigarettes and likely would be, until they killed me. So not all anti-smokers are ANTZ, as Kristin so rightly pointed out. Most of them just find the smell disgusting, so they hate cigarettes. Now, vaping is not quite as odorless as a lot of folks would like to make out, but it's certainly nowhere even close to being as smelly and disgusting as the smell of cigarette smoke, and the vapor isn't harmful to others (that we know of, so far), also unlike cigarette smoke. When I told my ex I was finally trying to make the switch to e-cigs, he was like, 'well duh, it's about time!"
Andria
- Status
Similar threads
