I'm done. No more vaping for me....
- Thread starter BREWINZ
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I'm noticing this too. I think it's because the ammonia in cigarettes makes the nicotine into freebase nicotine when it's burnt. The nicotine in e-cigarettes is not freebase. It's like the difference between ....... and crack ........ One is WAAAAAAYYYY more addictive than the other. Can you guess which one?
i doubted it too, even all the way through high school. of course it's hard to avoid that kind of disinformation as it's all forced fed to us to support the war on drugs. they can't back up the claims, so they just keep repeating it until it becomes fact to us and we won't deny it.
tobacco has been proven in studies to create dependency in its users by a larger margin compared to ....... in survey of health professionals involved in addiction treatment, nicotine was ranked #1 while ...... was ranked #9, just below alcohol.
most illegal drug users are "weekenders," and thus a habitual addiction never fully sets in. the body metabolizes whatever was taken, and things go back to normal. the sames goes for any legal drug, say for example alcohol. the majority of alcohol users are occasional social users. the much smaller minority, the addicts, make up a much smaller number simply because doing something, anything, over and over again isn't fun. people do drugs to escape or to create new sensations. if you continue to get the same sensations and feelings, they get old. but a very small percentage will like it so much that they must do it every waking minute of every day to get by. again, this is not the majority and thus not a representational image of any drug user, legal or not.
for your friends who have been addicted and stole money, this can be explained in two ways: prohibition and the war on drugs has caused drugs like ...... to be exorbitantly more in cost and thus not nearly as easy to obtain as a cigarette. costs are artificially inflated because there's more risk involved in owning, selling, and using the drug. and because it's not legal, there are no standards, so ...... is often cut or produced using dangerously toxic materials and ingredients to cut back the costs of production. these impurities can do a lot of damage to the body, and most if not all of this damage is not attributed to ...... itself.
as for withdrawals and the extreme mental pain that you were describing, this accounts for a very small percentage that makes up "addicts." people have died due to withdrawals from alcohol and nicotine because so much of it is normally put into their system that the body begins to form the physical aspect of dependency and thus cannot function properly without it. so, your descriptions do not surprise me. but, that being said, not all addicts are like this and to say one goes in hand with the other (...... use) is a bit narrow sighted. "functioning addicts" are those that do exist and make up the majority of users. they're successful, they're stable, they're rational, and they're responsible. you won't eve hear or read about them because that's not interesting, and thus major networks and anti-drug propaganda outlets won't expose us to such images. an example of this would be dr. william halsted, who was the first doctor to do a blood transfusion using his own blood. he also had one mean ...... addiction. oh, and he and three other founding doctors that formed john hopkins.
i'm not promoting the use of ......, or even the use of nicotine, but it's our business whether or not we can or will use it, and for a country that's supposedly the "freest country," we should have that right as citizens to do so without risk, injury, imprisonment, and the destruction of our civil rights that go along with the war on drugs.. of course the government disagrees and always knows what's best for the people.
Some of what you write makes sense, some I respectfully disagree with.
*Of note is the mention of a "survey" of health professionals in quantifying nicotine as the number 1 addiction over and above alcohol/opioids. Are you freaking kidding me? As one of those professionals, I can assure you that smoking is the least of the behaviors to address with substance abuse disorders. The standard is to work the drug/alcohol problem and NOT even attempt to address nicotine. To do so would deflect from the therapeutic process and possibly overwhelm the client from the 1st few days. Secondary habits can be addressed at a later date once success has been developed over time. Baby-steps. Please note that "dependency" according to the DSM means the use of a substance is creating substantial distress in an individual, his relationships, or work/school endeavors. Nicotine does not fit this standard. The only way it does meet the minimum criteria is when one wants to quit smoking...thus the individual states he is distressed and in need of help.
*Withdrawal from nicotine has not resulted in anyone dying...ever!!!(except if psychotropic drugs such as Chantix/Champix, etc have been given and suicidal ideation is a secondary side effect
).Sorry to go off topic...but I couldn't help myself!8-o
Some of what you write makes sense, some I respectfully disagree with.
*Of note is the mention of a "survey" of health professionals in quantifying nicotine as the number 1 addiction over and above alcohol/opioids. Are you freaking kidding me? As one of those professionals, I can assure you that smoking is the least of the behaviors to address with substance abuse disorders. The standard is to work the drug/alcohol problem and NOT even attempt to address nicotine. To do so would deflect from the therapeutic process and possibly overwhelm the client from the 1st few days. Secondary habits can be addressed at a later date once success has been developed over time. Baby-steps. Please note that "dependency" according to the DSM means the use of a substance is creating substantial distress in an individual, his relationships, or work/school endeavors. Nicotine does not fit this standard. The only way it does meet the minimum criteria is when one wants to quit smoking...thus the individual states he is distressed and in need of help.
*Withdrawal from nicotine has not resulted in anyone dying...ever!!!(except if psychotropic drugs such as Chantix/Champix, etc have been given and suicidal ideation is a secondary side effect
Sorry to go off topic...but I couldn't help myself!8-o
Yeah, I meant to mention that too. My experience is a little more personal. Glad to see a more professional view of it as well.
Alcohol withdrawal has and can kill people though, for anyone reading this. That stuff is the worst killer, and it's legal. And I still use it.
I don't know about the use of putting so much emphasis on addictions, nicotine, ......, ...., what ever....I'm just pretty darned happy to be resuming a life of energy I can turn into work accomplished, lungs that draw in air now instead of coughing out all the time, looking more like I have skin on my face and shiny growing hair, instead of that gray-looking black circled eyed haggard looking woman in the mirror, just six short months ago. I can walk up to people without checking the windage, because people do withdraw to leeward of a smoker. They don't visit with their kids. They don't like the smell of a tar-saturated house, and scream like crazy if their cars are assaulted with cigarette smoke. I was tired of being judged second-rate for any reason, but for about 4000 reasons right now feel like I can live again, and hold my own in any social setting. Happily. Even if I do have to buy a "new" device and some juice once in awhile, I don't mind. That's cheaper than a funeral. Which hopefully will be a little bit delayed now.
Gosh, I guess that old saying is true. Some people would ..... if they were being hung with a brand new rope, because it's itchy!
Gosh, I guess that old saying is true. Some people would ..... if they were being hung with a brand new rope, because it's itchy!
Last edited:
whoops i completely missed that i had put nicotine as cause of death from withdrawal. sometimes i'll just go typing and forgot to edit this stuff properly.Some of what you write makes sense, some I respectfully disagree with.
*Of note is the mention of a "survey" of health professionals in quantifying nicotine as the number 1 addiction over and above alcohol/opioids. Are you freaking kidding me? As one of those professionals, I can assure you that smoking is the least of the behaviors to address with substance abuse disorders. The standard is to work the drug/alcohol problem and NOT even attempt to address nicotine. To do so would deflect from the therapeutic process and possibly overwhelm the client from the 1st few days. Secondary habits can be addressed at a later date once success has been developed over time. Baby-steps. Please note that "dependency" according to the DSM means the use of a substance is creating substantial distress in an individual, his relationships, or work/school endeavors. Nicotine does not fit this standard. The only way it does meet the minimum criteria is when one wants to quit smoking...thus the individual states he is distressed and in need of help.
*Withdrawal from nicotine has not resulted in anyone dying...ever!!!(except if psychotropic drugs such as Chantix/Champix, etc have been given and suicidal ideation is a secondary side effect
Sorry to go off topic...but I couldn't help myself!8-o
i understand you're a professional, but to seriously claim nicotine is neither a drug nor one that is less mportant to address than alcohol is a bit of a leap in logic.
of course one is distressed when they are quitting - it's because they are forcing their body to adapt to the lack of the very chemical it has grown to depend on in order to function properly.
Amen to that Kate!
And AppleJackson...I'm sipping Baileys and Frangelica as I vape away with RY4, yumm!
And AppleJackson...I'm sipping Baileys and Frangelica as I vape away with RY4, yumm!
Yeah, but when treating someone with an opiate/alcohol addiction who more often than not has a nicotine addiction, which do you think should be addressed first? Which do you think effects their lives more? To say nicotine is more addictive than ...... implies that nicotine will. That's simply insane.
Sounds like an amazing combo. Almost vaping the same taste as the drink, I'd imagine. Put a drop of 555 in there and see how it goes, for the nuttiness. LOL. I don't know how long I could handle that amount of sweetness though
i've met people who cannot physically function without their two packs. it's not a matter of being irritable or grumpy - they can barely make it through the day.
your description of a person withdrawing isn't that far fetched - then again, that's why people often take sick days. many business professionals who use ...... on a recreational basis, who are still able to manage their professional lives, will often take days off to a) flush out remaining ...... in the system and b) to lower the necessary needed amount of ...... to counteract the body's growing tolerance, thus the user needs to spend less to get just as high.
as for the study i had mentioned, here it is: Addictiveness of Marijuana - ProCon.org
of course, much like lady, some do disagree, but many seem to be in line with this opinion on the addictiveness of nicotine.
i think many people agree that pg in antifreeze isn't that shocking. pg is used in a lot of substances, both ingested and not. i think the big scare was that it contained another chemical that was found in antifreeze as well. i forget the name of the chemical...
why would i go out and get ......? i have no use for it. i don't like needles, and even if i could take it in a different form, i'm sure i wouldn't be that impressed based on what's been described to me by users and professionals alike. i have plenty of morphine in my life due to numerous operations when i was younger. while it was nice at the time, it was only good because i was in excruciating pain. hah.
quitting smoking is easy? sure, for some people. just like it's easy to quit ...... for some people. but not everyone can quit just as easily as you, and the same goes for ...... and those that use it.
Last edited:
I'm down, Kate. While I'm a live-in-the-moment kind-of guy who's not worried about the length of my life (just the quality) I'm happy that this has the added bonus of possibly extending that. I enjoy vaping, I enjoy nicotine. It's made me hate the taste of analogs, and for that I'm grateful. I had already pretty much quit smoking except when I was drinking, so only about 2 packs a day (j/k
). But seriously, I like this as a hobby. I feel that it's not hurting me any more than the countless worse things I've done. I've had my addictions, but I have the rare quality where I get bored with them and that's what's made me stop in the past. I had grown bored with smoking, but wanted something for when I had a drink. I tried vaping and found it so enjoyable that I want to do it all the time. I don't feel bad about that like I would if I went back to full blown smoking and the various flavors and advancements (as any tech product will always have) will keep me interested for a long time, I'd wager. I feel better every day I haven't had an analog, which my sig is accurate about save for ONE that I had and HATED.Well I guess I'll leap away
! I didn't mean to claim that nicotine was not a drug it has been labeled as such (just like caffiene). What I am claiming is that substance abuse/dependence is not coded via the DSM as a focus of therapy unless one wants to quit nicotine. True dependence means there is a deficit in a major aspect of one's life due to continued use. Thus, most smokers seeking therapy are nicotine abusers. I may code an alcoholic as dependent based on their problems functioning in their environment and offer a bed to detox but at that point I could care less if they abuse nicotine. Call it triaging for focus of care. Equating nicotine with opioids, alcohol, barbituates, amphetamine, and inhalants is a laughable scenario for me. I mean no disrespect but when one sees the face of true physiological addiction the psychological attachment inherent in smoking simply doesn't compare.
Listen. I've lived it. I know the people that show up once in a while. The ones that "have it under control". All of it. Even the people that are maintaining, are not there. You're soul is gone. You're entire life is disconnected like you're watching it on a television. The ones that try it 3 times or more, always end up with a habit somewhere down the line.
You don't know what you're talking about, save for some BS on a sheet of paper (or a website) that other people that haven't lived it wrote, based on clinical tests. This is the real world.
You had morphine, yeah. It's been proven as well that when opiates are distributed properly for pain management, it's not nearly as addictive. You relate it to something completely different in your mind.
*Oh, and people that cannot physically function without a cigarette and a 2 pack a day habit are weak. I've had that. It is soooo far from what I'm talking about, only someone who hasn't experienced it could say something like this.
Last edited:
depending on the person, it would be up to the physician. nicotine and alcohol/opiate addiction in the long run does just as much damage to the lungs and liver, respectively.
like i said, ...... isn't at fault for health concerns. it's the fact that it's illegal and thus various impurities are found like sugar, milk, baking powder, etc. they are also not sterile and often hand crushed by the dealer or user, and often improperly. fragments can lead to blindness, stroke, and other health risks but users attempt to filter ...... using cotton. this of course doesn't work that well because cotton fragments instead make their way into user's vein, causing an adverse immune reaction called cotton fever, leading to disease and more severe infections. also, the necessary dosage is often uncertain, thus varying in potency to possibly lethal levels, unlike nicotine that is given in very strict, regulated, and monitored doses. this is trivial of course as an overdose takes an hour or so and can be quickly countered with naloxone. it works very quickly and effectively, but of course this too is illegal and tightly regulated.
also, keep in mind, when i say "dependence" and addiction," i mean the desire or being compelled to use the substance. physical dependence and physical addiction are a different matter all together and thus the matter of withdrawal would be different. withdrawal symptoms obviously vary depending on the substance and the quality of the substance that is being used, and of course on the person.
haha ok, man. use your street knowledge and claim CLINICAL TESTS AND STUDIES are hearsay.
if ...... is THAT debilitating, explain the millions and millions of users that aren't cracked out and vomiting like you claim. how come businesses execs, secretaries, social workers, doctors, nurses, and various other COMPLETELY competent and responsible "chippers" aren't acting like their "souls are dead" or some vague psuedo-intellectual condition?
and i'm sorry, are you crazy? are you saying that ...... is somehow DIFFERENT from ...... because of intent? do you know how many people are addicted to morphine? jesus christ, man, a drug is a drug is a drug.
Last edited:
To chime in on the original topic...
I don't have any experience with quality issues yet as I've only had my 510 a week. A few thoughts:
1) Some vendors will provide a warranty for the products they sell / resell. If they don't that may indicate a lack of quality.
2) Vendors should be honest about the lifespan of the products they sell. No battery lasts forever, and heating coils have a limited lifespan which is effected by use.
3) Just as some cars are better than others, it stands to reason that some E-cigs are of higher quality than others. They may even vary by model. (Think of the Ford Pinto)
4) If you don't consider customer service and reputation when buying you may get less than you paid for. Sadly you can't just buy any E-cig at any price and expect consistent high quality and service.
5) It is a good idea to factor in all the costs, especially recurring costs such as juice, carts, atomizers, and batteries.
6) For pack a day smokers should you come out pretty good savings vs. cigarettes. If you're a light, or occasional smoker you may not save any money for quite some time.
7) Breathing only air is best.
-Gooney0
I don't have any experience with quality issues yet as I've only had my 510 a week. A few thoughts:
1) Some vendors will provide a warranty for the products they sell / resell. If they don't that may indicate a lack of quality.
2) Vendors should be honest about the lifespan of the products they sell. No battery lasts forever, and heating coils have a limited lifespan which is effected by use.
3) Just as some cars are better than others, it stands to reason that some E-cigs are of higher quality than others. They may even vary by model. (Think of the Ford Pinto)
4) If you don't consider customer service and reputation when buying you may get less than you paid for. Sadly you can't just buy any E-cig at any price and expect consistent high quality and service.
5) It is a good idea to factor in all the costs, especially recurring costs such as juice, carts, atomizers, and batteries.
6) For pack a day smokers should you come out pretty good savings vs. cigarettes. If you're a light, or occasional smoker you may not save any money for quite some time.
7) Breathing only air is best.
-Gooney0
Oh, this is why even with my past, I completely advocate the legalization and testing/labeling of all drugs.
Yes, I usually use "addiction" to mean "physical dependence", as I don't believe in "mental addiction" based on my experience. "Mental desire", yes. Mental addiction implies something else that couldn't be overcome with willpower, and I don't believe in that. There's also a matter of habit, which differs as well. You become accustomed to certain actions under certain conditions. That's how I knew the e-cig would quell my desire for a cigarette while drinking. I just didn't expect to like it so much, but I'm certainly not upset by that.
The worst thing any person with an addiction has to overcome is the PANIC of not having what they "need".
I know it gets us all at some time or another, glad you're "down" here with us, Applejackson. Misery loves company, I mean that. Sometimes we shouldn't be alone.
With the use of a simple battery-powered fog machine, this "quitting" stuff can be easily accomplished, no panic button on them, just having suitable replacement parts and some fuel for the fogger can ease anyone's deep-seated anxiety, and say hey, this might work. It's producing a situation of being able to side-step the biggest reason for failure: your comfort zone being squeezed in by a "schedule" of stopping, instead of expanding outward every single day as it is with a "placebo" that one day will have your Comfort Zone widened out big enough to be able to say you don't need a placebo any more. Not increasing the Panic because you have to stay on schedule. That's not comfortable. It's also not going to work.
My own personal testing tells me that I'm at a point where my metabolism has adjusted to my nicotine absorption at a point that six months ago I would have considered the same as exposure to second hand smoke. That's pretty good for a 44 year smoker, 2-3 packs a day. With no pain at all. I'm comfortable. I'm very excited to think anyone could even imagine this, let alone feel it happening to me.
I know of many alcoholics who needed a pill everyday just to make it to work without falling apart. It does work; drug addicts can get the same kind of treatments, they do work. With a little positive re-inforcement we can do this too. May take some of us longer than others, there's no rules.
Rules can cause discomfort. Ladyraj, that's the spirit!
I know it gets us all at some time or another, glad you're "down" here with us, Applejackson. Misery loves company, I mean that. Sometimes we shouldn't be alone.
With the use of a simple battery-powered fog machine, this "quitting" stuff can be easily accomplished, no panic button on them, just having suitable replacement parts and some fuel for the fogger can ease anyone's deep-seated anxiety, and say hey, this might work. It's producing a situation of being able to side-step the biggest reason for failure: your comfort zone being squeezed in by a "schedule" of stopping, instead of expanding outward every single day as it is with a "placebo" that one day will have your Comfort Zone widened out big enough to be able to say you don't need a placebo any more. Not increasing the Panic because you have to stay on schedule. That's not comfortable. It's also not going to work.
My own personal testing tells me that I'm at a point where my metabolism has adjusted to my nicotine absorption at a point that six months ago I would have considered the same as exposure to second hand smoke. That's pretty good for a 44 year smoker, 2-3 packs a day. With no pain at all. I'm comfortable. I'm very excited to think anyone could even imagine this, let alone feel it happening to me.
I know of many alcoholics who needed a pill everyday just to make it to work without falling apart. It does work; drug addicts can get the same kind of treatments, they do work. With a little positive re-inforcement we can do this too. May take some of us longer than others, there's no rules.
Rules can cause discomfort. Ladyraj, that's the spirit!
Last edited:
Tell ya what, stick to your foolishness.
And I'm sorry your reading comprehension is not up to par. I'm not saying that at all. What I've said is, people who have been given opiates for the treatment of pain, have had no trouble stopping when it wasn't needed anymore, while someone who was using the same amount recreationally would develop a habit.
Oh, this is why even with my past, I completely advocate the legalization and testing/labeling of all drugs.
Yes, I usually use "addiction" to mean "physical dependence", as I don't believe in "mental addiction" based on my experience. "Mental desire", yes. Mental addiction implies something else that couldn't be overcome with willpower, and I don't believe in that. There's also a matter of habit, which differs as well. You become accustomed to certain actions under certain conditions. That's how I knew the e-cig would quell my desire for a cigarette while drinking. I just didn't expect to like it so much, but I'm certainly not upset by that.
we could probably go on with this but i think we've gone off topic enough. apologies for jacking the thread.
- Status
Similar threads
