important to freeze nicotine?

[Alien Traveler]

No need for air, since there is O2 naturally dissolved in VG and PG. Can't escape it, although there is not much. Enough to change the color, but not enough to significantly change the nic level. Freezing stops it.

It is now officially 5 years since I started storing nic in the freezer. I still have some of that vintage 2009 nic. Unchanged, as far as I can tell.

The main thing, as you noted, there is not much of dissolved oxygen to provide any troubles. And anyway, it will oxidize nicotine – freezing does not stop oxidation, it slows it down. Usually temperature drop of 10 degrees Celcius reduces speed of chemical reaction by half. So, when putting nicotine in a freezer we slow down chemical processes for about 16 times compared to room temperature (increase of viscosity should not play a significant role since oxygen is already dissolved).

 

[GaryInTexas]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 14073033" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

The main thing, as you noted, there is not much of dissolved oxygen to provide any troubles. And anyway, it will oxidize nicotine – freezing does not stop oxidation, it slows it down. Usually temperature drop of 10 degrees Celcius reduces speed of chemical reaction by half. So, when putting nicotine in a freezer we slow down chemical processes for about 16 times compared to room temperature (increase of viscosity should not play a significant role since oxygen is already dissolved).

Are you saying that a nic solution with a shelf life of 1-2 years at room temperature will have a life of 16-32 years in a freezer with little degrading ?

 

[Alien Traveler]

Are you saying that a nic solution with a shelf life of 1-2 years at room temperature will have a life of 16-32 years in a freezer with little degrading ?

I am not saying it, but I would not be surprised...
I believe (I do not know, so I just believe) that we can expect at least 10 years (just do not get in the freezer for ice cream too often). But I would not be surprised to be wrong.

I have now supply of nicotine which will lasts for 6-7 years; much more if I drop down my nicotine percentage in near future (as I hope).

 

[GaryInTexas]

I have a 10 year supply in freezer now. I will report back in 2024 if you are correct.

If getting in the freezer for ice cream is detrimental to it though, that may be a deal breaker for me.

 

[cammelspit]

I keep my nic in a large tool box and is kept cool in AC. I also keep my kanthal and all my tools there to keep them from my 2 year old, padlocked. There are 2 of us in this house who vape continuously so the 65 30ml bottles I can get from the nic would be gone before the year mark for sure. The nic arrived already a dull brown color so keeping that form happening seems to be a moot point for me. Next time ill try to source a gallon or two of 100mg/ml nic and seperate it out into bottles for freezing for the extended shelf life. do you have only a small amount of nic onhand? A small amount would probably be not worth the effort, i think.

 

[RonJS]

Are you saying that a nic solution with a shelf life of 1-2 years at room temperature will have a life of 16-32 years in a freezer with little degrading ?

You might find post #16 of interest here..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/43742-smoke-juice-storage-tips-2.html

Ron

 

[Kurt]

You might find post #16 of interest here..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/43742-smoke-juice-storage-tips-2.html

Ron

That is my original description from Jan 2010 of how I do it. Also has links (might be dead now) for where to get bottles and whatnot for it.

@AT: you are right. "Stopped" reaction is not correct. But it is slowed dramatically. I do think that increased viscosity further slows it. Generally kinetics differences with temp assume the solution is quite mobile and being stirred. My freezer brings the liquid almost to phase change. Takes a long time for a bubble in the bottle to travel from one end to the other when inverting. I think there is very little molecular mobility at that state. But yes, greatly slowed, not stopped.

 

[Switched]

That is my original description from Jan 2010 of how I do it. Also has links (might be dead now) for where to get bottles and whatnot for it.

@AT: you are right. "Stopped" reaction is not correct. But it is slowed dramatically. I do think that increased viscosity further slows it. Generally kinetics differences with temp assume the solution is quite mobile and being stirred. My freezer brings the liquid almost to phase change. Takes a long time for a bubble in the bottle to travel from one end to the other when inverting. I think there is very little molecular mobility at that state. But yes, greatly slowed, not stopped.

Does this apply to the degradation of PG and VG?

 

[Alien Traveler]

Does this apply to the degradation of PG and VG?

They should survive much better than nicotine.
http://www.pgchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Shelf-Life-2012-Website.pdf
Dow Answer Center
About Propylene Glycols | Dow Propylene Glycols
LyondellBasell - Propylene Glycol USP/EP (PGUSP/EP)
Manufacturers guarantee PG and VG shelf life of 2 years in sealed containers at room (25 Celsius) temperature.
1. In a freezer shelf life will be much longer.
2. Manufacturers are not interested in promoting too long shelf life of their products.

 

[Dixie1954]

Ok so you all are saying fill the glass bottles to lip? How can I do that I need to break my nic down to 12ml and 24ml to put into 15ml and 30 ml glass bottles either amber or blue. So you are saying that won't work with the extra space inside?? I am confused - please help I live in a hot apartment no AC just fans and it is hot in here. ok 25c it is not in here it is over 85f or more. I decided that I am just going to do what I planned from the start - so no worries

 

[thejaker]

Relevant?:

Storing Your Nicotine Solution - Nude Nicotine

***WARNING - bad jokes included***

 

[Scarab]

My eyes are blurry from reading all the nic freezing posts, but cannot seem to find a confirmation on something. Typically freezing liquids causes them to expand and become solid. Does the PG/Nic or VG/Nic freeze solid and expand like water?

 

[JohnnyDill]

My eyes are blurry from reading all the nic freezing posts, but cannot seem to find a confirmation on something. Typically freezing liquids causes them to expand and become solid. Does the PG/Nic or VG/Nic freeze solid and expand like water?

Only water based liquids expand when frozen. {The water forms crystals, increasing the volume} -But since PG or VG nic contains no water or virtually no water, it does not actually freeze when subjected to temperatures of a household freezer. It just gets really cold!

 

[Scarab]

Thanks Johnny.

 

[dannyv45]

Your question is likely in concern to the bottles bursting in the freezer. This will not happen the VG/PG/NIC solutions will actually shrink slightly when frozen. So there's no need to worry. Just make sure you use glass bottles and not plastic as plastic will cave in slightly.

 

[Kurt]

Actually with VG the opposite is true: it expands when heated. The couple mL headspace I use is not for expansion in the freezer, it is for expansion after it is removed, especially if the room it is taken to is summer-hot. I had one with no headspace that I had processed for storing in a cold kitchen in January, and then took it out of the freezer and into my office during the heat of July. It expanded and leaked from under the cap. Not good, since it was 100 mg/mL. Won't do that again.

Water is actually one of the few compounds that expand when frozen. The majority contract when frozen, but we rarely do this with those liquids.

Also, the bottle should be brought to room temp standing up. Reason is that if the bottle is on it's side, the air bubble will try to expand upon warming to room temperature. Ideal gas law, PV=nRT, and all that. If there is a way for liquid to seep from under the cap, it will. Same reason tanks can leak in a hot car in the summer. Protanks need to be tip down in the heat.

 

[Spazmelda]

Also, IMO, being to room temp with the cap on or condensation will get into the liquid as it warms up. That's probably common sense, but I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Scarab]

Same reason tanks can leak in a hot car in the summer. Protanks need to be tip down in the heat.

I'm amazed at what I'm learning by reading the forums here. I don't want to take this thread off topic, so I'll just say I'm a boater and I try to keep everything out of the heat. So I bought "stainless steel" devices by design, keeping them in the shade on the boat, same with the car. Still the temps are high.

The answers above give me a better understanding of how to store the nic, and why. So thanks.

 

[Kurt]

Also, IMO, being to room temp with the cap on or condensation will get into the liquid as it warms up. That's probably common sense, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Yes, a small amount of condensation of water from the air can occur on the surface of cold PG or VG if it is opened while cold. Actually at room temp too, but less so.

 

[dannyv45]

It's always a good idea to let the bottle warm to room temperature before opening.