IMR or PROTECTED batteries in VV's?

[sachiaiko]

Hey guys,

I just got a second hand lavatube and i noticed the suggested battery for it is an IMR safe chemestry battery.


But i was wondering if it is safe/ok to use a protected battery, or is there some reason why a protected circuit battery wouldnt work or wouldnt be safe in a mod that requests more of the battery then it was intended to deliver?

For those of you who arent famililar with the Lavatube, its a tube VV mod which calls for a single 18650 battery and can be set to vape anywhere from between 3.2v to 6v off that single battery within the tube.

So does anyone know the answer to my question? Is it safe/OK for me to use regular protected batteries in a device like the LavaTube or are ONLY IMRs okay?


Thanks!
Sachi

 

[Shilo]

You need to use the IMR's for a variable volt mod

 

[martinc]

Both work,but the IMRs offer a better,more constant drain of power throughout a charge.

But in reality,do we notice it much?Or do we need to graft an electronic gizmo on it to notice it

I use both types in my Vmax

 

[manuelpt]

I use both, imr and unprotected icr. Both work fine. If you plan to use voltages until around 3,7V, icr would work great. Beyond that you will notice an autonomy decrease, and in those cases a imr would be better.

 

[Rader2146]

A word about boost regulators (warning: techy info inside)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...6428-ohms-mahs-volts-oh-my-8.html#post6751438

The biggest mistake that I have noticed is that many people will calculate the output amperage and assume that it is the same as the input amperage. Boost regulators (output voltage higher than input voltage) will require more current in order to boost the voltage. So even though the output current might be low, the input current could be much higher depending on the difference between output voltage and input voltage.

Here is an example at a very common 8 watts power level

8w / 5v output = 1.6 amps output

8w / 3.2v input = 2.5 amps input

But then add in the efficiancy loss, and your input current is nearly double the output.

Another factor is inrush current. Without getting to deep, inrush current is the current that is used to initially charge the components that will boost the voltage. These currents can be VERY high. A very crude analogy is trying to push a car; it takes a lot of effort to get it moving, but not as much to keep it moving. Well, boost converters will start and stop "pushing the car" thousands of times per second. There are components that can buffer the batteries from the inrush current, but few people (mainly the designers or people that have taken them apart to disect the circuits) could say for certain that your mod has these components to lessen the strain on the battery.

On a side note, buck regulators (higher input voltage "bucked" down to a lower voltage; ala VMax) are much more forgiving on the batteries and Protected ICRs will do just fine, unless you like your vape akin to magma.

 

[McAldo]

You can use both but IMR will give you better performance, meaning you are not going to get a wimpy vape when the battery is partially depleted and with particularly challenging resistance atties.

The general advice is to get AW IMR, which are rebranded high quality cells, but expensive.
A good, perhaps better, and cheaper alternative are EFEST

The difference between protected and imr is also that IMR have no internal mechanism preventing discharging too much the battery, which can lead to failure or even to the battery going thermal runaway.

Your lavatube, and other vv mods, has an internal protection which will prevent you from firing if the battery is too depleted.
Mechanical mods have no protection so you are generally better off using protected batteries on those.
Your lavatube allows to check for battery charge (voltage) by pressing 5 times the fire button.
4.2 means fully charged, 3.6 is time to recharge, anything under 3.4 and you might be damaging the cell. If you want to maximise battery life, never store them for long completely discharged.


Quality wise, a good battery is one that will offer the declared mha capacity in intensive applications as using it with your lavatube.
Batteries claiming huge capacity and costing just a few bucks are normally a scam, they can only provide that when drawing very little energy for a long time, on your lavatube that 3000 mha will end up being 300 perhaps.
Avoiding any battery with 'fire' in the name is a good starting point to avoid bummers, but trustfire charger are good, just, not their batteries

Hope this helps, happy vaping

PS: senybor are an example of good protected batteries (actually panasonic) which will give performance comparable to IMR, and cheaper too, but they are too long to fit your lavatube.
Sent from my SK17i using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rader2146]

4.2 means fully charged, 3.6 is time to recharge, anything under 3.4 and you might be damaging the cell. If you want to maximise battery life, never store them for long completely discharged.

Recharging at 3.6v is not needed. That is using barely half of the charge life. 3.4v to 3.0v will not damage the cell. That is firmly inside the normal operating range. Below 3.0v depends on the battery. Many IMRs and Panasonic's NCR line are rated down to 2.5v.

Many will disagree, but there is nothing wrong with vaping until the device's low voltage cutoff; 3.2v loaded, or ~3.3-3.4v unloaded, for most boost mods. For those that disagree, "Battery University says to..." is not a good reason. How many charge cycles are in a year?

 

[pesok]

here is an easy explanation for you - IMR uses safer chemistry and ur lavatube has protection build in already - there is no need for additional protection on the battery plus IMR can handle higher constant output than prot. batts(if u use prt. battery and try to vape at higher than 3.7v - it really strains the battery at more than its build for). Use IMR, vape freely at any voltage and have one less headache

 

[A17kawboy]

Recharging at 3.6v is not needed. That is using barely half of the charge life. 3.4v to 3.0v will not damage the cell. That is firmly inside the normal operating range. Below 3.0v depends on the battery. Many IMRs and Panasonic's NCR line are rated down to 2.5v.

Many will disagree, but there is nothing wrong with vaping until the device's low voltage cutoff; 3.2v loaded, or ~3.3-3.4v unloaded, for most boost mods. For those that disagree, "Battery University says to..." is not a good reason. How many charge cycles are in a year?

I know you know what you are talking about Rader. I've read that Li-ion batteries lives are extended by re-charging them before they reach a low voltage level (3.3). Would you recommend that? Or is the extended life offset by the hours that you didn't use them when you could have, if you know what I mean?

 

[Rader2146]

It depends on how you measure battery life. It is true that partial discharging will extend the life of your battery, when measured in charge cycles. But how does that translate into time? If you only partially discharge a battery to extend its life (in charge cycles) but then have to charge it twice as often, it negates any benefits that you thought you were getting. Especially when we never fully discharge a battery to it's minimum voltage. It varies with different batteries, but 3.3v is still about 25% charge.

When you break it down to realistic elements (in this case, time instead of charge cycles) there really isnt much to gain. Pennies, if anything. Partial discharge is not any safer than a full discharge, so the only reason to follow such a procedure is return on investment. In a world of $5 coffee and $200 Mods, a couple more days on a $10 battery is a drop in a bucket. People will do what that want to do, and if it works for them...great. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing. But there is also WAY too much incorrect information being passed along to not take what you read with a grain of salt.

 

[unloaded]

Another thing to consider is the length of the batteries. The protected ones are longer and you won't be able to thread the bottom cap on all the way. With only a few threads used I suspect the aluminum will give you trouble before too long. Just another reason to use the IMRs.

 

[A17kawboy]

It depends on how you measure battery life. It is true that partial discharging will extend the life of your battery, when measured in charge cycles. But how does that translate into time? If you only partially discharge a battery to extend its life (in charge cycles) but then have to charge it twice as often, it negates any benefits that you thought you were getting. Especially when we never fully discharge a battery to it's minimum voltage. It varies with different batteries, but 3.3v is still about 25% charge.

When you break it down to realistic elements (in this case, time instead of charge cycles) there really isnt much to gain. Pennies, if anything. Partial discharge is not any safer than a full discharge, so the only reason to follow such a procedure is return on investment. In a world of $5 coffee and $200 Mods, a couple more days on a $10 battery is a drop in a bucket. People will do what that want to do, and if it works for them...great. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing. But there is also WAY too much incorrect information being passed along to not take what you read with a grain of salt.

Thank you for the detailled answer. I really appreciate it when people who know what they are talking about take the time to educate those of us who are learning. Didn't mean to hijack the thread (have thought of changing my name actually lol) but it's sort of on-topic and probably useful info for lots of people.

 

[MattBott]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but what about Protected IMRs? If size isn't considered (DIY DNA box, for example), is this the best of both worlds?

 

[Rader2146]

I don't think it's the best if both worlds. In the grand scheme, batteries are relativly cheap, so protection circuits aren't nessisarily there to save the battery, they are there to save you. With IMRs and the Panny CGR, the danger to you is not what it is with ICRs and Li-Poly's.

Overcharge protection, use a quality charger.
Undervoltage protection, built in to the DNA chip at 3.2v.
Over current protection, add a PTC fuse to you DNA build if you'd like the added safety.

In the end, IMR and the Panny hybrids don't have protection circuits because they don't need them. Adding a protection circuit to them is just catering to the uber-safety crowd. It isn't nessisary, but it gives them peace on mind.