Indiana Call to Action - Stop the Monopoly

[zoiDman]

...

OK, let's presume an Indiana court decides that I have violated Indiana law despite never having set foot in the state. What ability do they have to enforce any sanction on me?

I would say that they would Issue a Court Order against your Business for the amount of the Fine you incurred. And if you decided you Didn't want to Pay it, Indiana would ask your State/County to revoke your Business License.

And I imagine that Responsible Parties of the Company would have Bench Warrants issued against themselves.

Like I said, I'm not a Lawyer. But people have been doing State-to-State Commerce for awhile. So I Don't see this as anything new. I'm pretty sure there is some Existing Case Law regarding what you ask.

 

[Ipster]

Again, my (hypothetical) shop is in FL. I'm not conducting business in Indiana. I'm conducting business in FL.


OK, let's presume an Indiana court decides that I have violated Indiana law despite never having set foot in the state. What ability do they have to enforce any sanction on me?

OK...its upsetting- I get it..but I live by "worrying is paying tax on a bill that hasnt come due yet"...we can "pi" things to death.
Just cant play out all the what ifs...and maybe I should?
Cheers.

 

[zoiDman]

Again, my (hypothetical) shop is in FL. I'm not conducting business in Indiana. I'm conducting business in FL.

...

If I write a Law that Prohibits anyone who does Not hold some Trumped Up Indiana License from "Providing" e-liquids to anyone in Indiana, does it matter what state your are "doing business" in?

 

[Racehorse]

I believe that in Arkansas if you meet the requirements your good to go.

There is no "good to go" here. It is unlawful for any wholesaler or manufacturer or retailer, with or without an Arkansas permit, regardless of whether located in or outside of Arkansas, to sell E-liquid, regardless of nicotine content, to any individual inside of Arkansas. You can sell to permitted retail stores if you obtain an Arkansas manufacturer or wholesale permit who can then sell to individuals.

Licenses are cheap in AR......" Retail Cigarette & Tobacco Permit, Wholesale Tobacco Permit or Manufacturer Tobacco Permit automatically include vapor products and alternative nicotine products for $50 a year.

Ziodman is correct about asking attorney. I did. Many times. Our ATC attorney in AR has been very forthcoming to answer any and all questions to help anybody who wants to be in compliance.

The AR law doesn't include hardware. It never did. Anything not impregnated with eliquid (nicotine or not) you can sell and buy at your heart's content here in AR----- Tanks, RDAs, wick, wire, so long as no vaping agent is in or attached.

(which is why I was always confused by everyone saying that we would be reduced to cigalikes........here in AR it's been just the opposite, anything NOT a cigalike, i.e. not impregnated with liquid is perfectly legal to buy online. )

Here is an interesting topic about how shopping cart software can mess things up, as well as vapers ordering who don't know the laws of their own state:
Please Resume Provari Hardware Sales to Arkansas!

The AR ATC attorney here was helpful in explaining to vendors I was trying to deal with, that it was okay for them to send me hardware. (...that is their job, to serve us, so I suggest anyone unclear about the laws of your state, call the people whose job it is to explain these things to you, do not rely on posts you find on the internet. ) Yes, he called vendors for me.

if Indiana's law is to be overturned it will be because they became to greedy.

Sorry, but I see Greed all around. When you live in a small rural town and can ONLY purchase eliquid at a B&M or tobacco shop, and the ejuice brands charge $19-$28 for a small bottle of ejuice----

Do you think any eliquid makers who have ejuice sitting on shelves in states like AR and IN will lower their prices to "help" vapers who have no other way to get eliquids?

 

[Racehorse]

PS maybe somebody can tell me in a nutshell how the new laws in IN compare to those in AR. I don't have time to learn about every state, it already took a lot to just learn about my own.

 

[skoony]

@Racehorse thanks. My point was they are not excluded from getting
their product to consumers if they follow procedures. It'snot direct
sales but an avenue does exist.

It will be interesting to note what will happen when more than a few
states with large populations go this route and start eyeing the market
potential in a state with similar restrictions.

Regards
Mike

 

[Amy87]

I've asked this repeatedly, and I've never gotten a good answer: How does a state like Indiana or Arkansas go about fining a business that's not located within their state? Let's say I have an e-liquid business in some other state, e.g. Florida (I do not, this is hypothetical). A customer in Indiana orders from me on my website. Legally the transaction takes place here in FL, as evidenced by the fact that I do not have to collect Indiana sales tax. How/why is this transaction subject to Indiana law?

Here is a small excerpt from the bill that outlines shipping eliquid to Indiana:

Sec. 3. (a) Except as otherwise permitted by this article, a person
may not purchase, receive, manufacture, import, or transport, or

cause to be imported or transported from another state, territory,
or country into Indiana, or transport, ship, barter, give away,
exchange, furnish, or otherwise handle or dispose of e-liquid, or to
possess e-liquid for purpose of sale.
(b) A person may not knowingly receive or acquire e-liquid
from a person or authorized distributor who does not hold a valid
permit under this article to sell, deliver, furnish, or give the

e-liquid.

So while it doesn't specifically say you can't sell to someone in Indiana, it very plainly states you can't ship it to us.
It's stupid, but true.

 

[Racehorse]

@Racehorse thanks. My point was they are not excluded from getting
their product to consumers if they follow procedures. It'snot direct
sales but an avenue does exist.

Mike, all businesses have "crisis" points, esp. in global business market. You have to be very adapatable.

From watching businesses succeed and fail over the last 2 decades, I can tell you that the ones with the best distribution networks are the ones who succeed.

So you are correct. There are avenues. Quite frankly, I was waiting (in vain) for more online ejuice makers, who I supported quite loyally for 4 years, to look into selling to retail stores in AR. It never happened. So, I have not been able to buy the products I used to enjoy. (As a result, I've simply moved on from them. ) IMHO, they could all be making $$ by contacting B&Ms to carry their products which is sure easier in some ways than taking individual orders and mailing them out piecemeal.

Instead, most of the sites just put up notices up that they wouldn't sell or ship to me here.

Somebody in another topic said these regs will be a boon to B&Ms. Maybe somebody can explain to me why more B&Ms, occupying what used to be empty storefronts, and having lots of vaping related stores that revitalize neighborhoods, is "BAD"?

 

[zoiDman]

And from the "Didn't See This One Coming" file.

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Spoiler: Giant Meteor 2016

Donald Trump and Possible VP Pick Indiana Gov. Pence Meet at Golf Club

 

[pennysmalls]

Racehorse,

The AR ATC attorney here was helpful in explaining to vendors I was trying to deal with, that it was okay for them to send me hardware. (...that is their job, to serve us, so I suggest anyone unclear about the laws of your state, call the people whose job it is to explain these things to you, do not rely on posts you find on the internet. ) Yes, he called vendors for me.

That's a problem here for us because the law as written is vague and the ATC can't really answer some questions definitively. There's a possible loophole in the dates that would allow B&M's to continue to sell liquid made between 6/15 and 7/1/16 but the ATC is saying there is no loophole. So in this case many believe the ATC is outright wrong in their interpretation.

 

[Racehorse]

Racehorse,
That's a problem here for us because the law as written is vague and the ATC can't really answer some questions definitively. There's a possible loophole in the dates that would allow B&M's to continue to sell liquid made between 6/15 and 7/1/16 but the ATC is saying there is no loophole. So in this case many believe the ATC is outright wrong in their interpretation.

Oh dear, well I would call, ask them to explain, and if they can't, ask for somebody who CAN. That is their job, to know, understand, and interpret the laws of their state, and help people achieve compliance with those laws. I would call whoever I had to, and then play the "shame game" and ask a reporter or someone to get the infor for the public, and tell them nobody has been able to tell you anything.

 

[Robino1]

And from the "Didn't See This One Coming" file.

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Spoiler: Giant Meteor 2016

Donald Trump and Possible VP Pick Indiana Gov. Pence Meet at Golf Club

And the screws keep turning and tightening

 

[Racehorse]

okay, just read about the new BAN in Utah. Rep. Paul Ray, another Republican. This one sounds way worse, as it includes everything, not just eliquid but also hardware, accessories, etc.
Utah Online Sales Prohibition – Utah Smoke Free Association

So, Republicans in Indiana, Republicans in Arkansas, and Republicans in Utah have created and signed into law the most restrictive 'online sales' type vaping laws.

Seems like maybe Dems may talk about it a lot, but its actually the Republicans in Red states who are signing and passing the most restrictive and draconian laws..........in action. hmmmmmm

There's 3 in a row right there for your consideration, folks.

 

[zoiDman]

And the screws keep turning and tightening

I have Shaken My Head so much in the Last 3 Months I think it is about to Fall Off. Which I would Probably Welcome.

And just when Things Can't Possibly be any Worse or get More Bizarre or come out of Left Field and Hit Me in the Temple.... It Does.

I want to Make this Very, Very Clear. Come November 8th, I will NOT be Voting for someone I want. I will be Voting Against the One who I see as Worse between 2 very Closely Matched Evils.

 

[Robino1]

I want to Make this Very, Very Clear. Come November 8th, I will NOT be Voting for someone I want. I will be Voting Against the One who I see as Worse between 2 very Closely Matched Evils.

That's the dilemma I am having. I don't know which one is worse. I am about at the point of going Libertarian.

 

[zoiDman]

That's the dilemma I am having. I don't know which one is worse. I am about at the point of going Libertarian.

If there wasn't 2 Supreme Court Justices up for Grabs, the Choice would be a somewhat Easier.

But the Person who is Elected as Our (LOL) next President will be presenting the Next 2 Justices. And could Change the Balance of the Supreme Court for a very, Very, VERY Long time.

 

[tmcase]

That's the dilemma I am having. I don't know which one is worse.

I'm in the same boat. So I choose not to vote. I don't want to make the same mistake I made 8 yrs ago when I voted for Obama. I thought HE was the lesser of 2 evils and I'm deeply regretting voting for that other word for a donkey.

 

[Robino1]

I'm in the same boat. So I choose not to vote. I don't want to make the same mistake I made 8 yrs ago when I voted for Obama. I thought HE was the lesser of 2 evils and I'm deeply regretting voting for that other word for a donkey.

I know the feeling all too well *sigh*

I cannot just Not vote though.

My head hurts

 

[DC2]

If there wasn't 2 Supreme Court Justices up for Grabs, the Choice would be a somewhat Easier.

But the Person who is Elected as Our (LOL) next President will be presenting the Next 2 Justices. And could Change the Balance of the Supreme Court for a very, Very, VERY Long time.

I've been voting independent for years now.
But your post makes clear why I will NOT be doing that this time around.

 

[nomore stinkies]

The supreme court justices are the most important issue to me. I did not vote for Obama but the choices this time around are dismal at best. But I want that court balanced so ....right I go. Painful.