Indiana Call to Action - Stop the Monopoly

[pennysmalls]

We need to keep in mind that this legislation in Indiana was written with the ultimate goal of handing the Indiana market to a select few companies. They accomplished that goal. I honestly don't think the out of state purchases being sneaked in is a matter they're worried about much, if at all.

 

[Racehorse]

A lot of us are planning on buying ejuice online and having it shipped to a friend or family member out of state and having them send it to us.

That gets expensive. By the time you pay 2 shipping costs. Plus, for "friends" if you order from more than one place, asking a lot.

I decided I would much rather just go to a B&M and give them my business. It keeps the community vibrant, it keeps storefronts from going empty, and it keeps vaping VISIBLY on the map.

If all this online banning turns out to benefit B&Ms, which IMHO make communities more vibrant, then there is a way to look at this in a positive way once you "adjust" your expectations.

 

[Lessifer]

That gets expensive. By the time you pay 2 shipping costs. Plus, for "friends" if you order from more than one place, asking a lot.

I decided I would much rather just go to a B&M and give them my business. It keeps the community vibrant, it keeps storefronts from going empty, and it keeps vaping VISIBLY on the map.

If all this online banning turns out to benefit B&Ms, which IMHO make communities more vibrant, then there is a way to look at this in a positive way once you "adjust" your expectations.

That's true for the Arkansas market, for Indiana though, B&M's are restricted to selling e-liquid made by one of the 6 companies that received permits, I believe. That's not a thriving market.

 

[Jingles]

I worry about all those new and younger vapers. If their favorite B+M has closed and they run out of juice, how long before they pick up a pack of cigarettes? I think someone in Indiana should start a list and send it to the Governor's office. An "I returned to smoking because of your stupid law" list!

 

[zoiDman]

That gets expensive. By the time you pay 2 shipping costs. Plus, for "friends" if you order from more than one place, asking a lot.

I decided I would much rather just go to a B&M and give them my business. It keeps the community vibrant, it keeps storefronts from going empty, and it keeps vaping VISIBLY on the map.

If all this online banning turns out to benefit B&Ms, which IMHO make communities more vibrant, then there is a way to look at this in a positive way once you "adjust" your expectations.

If I lived in Indiana, and if wasn't for this...

We need to keep in mind that this legislation in Indiana was written with the ultimate goal of handing the Indiana market to a select few companies. They accomplished that goal.

... I wouldn't have a problem Buying from a B&M. But with EVERYTHING that went down, and the Way it went down, I would have a Hard Time giving my Money to many selling e-Liquids in Indiana.

 

[Racehorse]

how can IN government expect all out of state vendors to know IN law?

Because, if they are in the online, mail order vaping business, it is their BUSINESS to know these things.

This is, and has been, one of the problems with many vendors. They have no idea what is going on.

Most of the good ones have legal counsel, and their lawyers keep them abreast of these things. Seems like a "real" business would want to have this...........sure beats being charged w/a misdeamor crime + large fine, etc. IMHO.

BTW, right after they passed the law in AR, I won a contest that kinda overlapped with the timeline. The vendor sent me one of those "envelope floating in elqiuid" packages. In 2016! Still going on. My entire Post Office reaked of vanilla flavoring. (turns out it wasn't the packaging.........that was fine. It was their bottles. Crummy cheapo dispenser type tops and this was 50ml so bleieve me when I say the package was floating in eliquid. Thankfully it stayed IN the package otherwise I may have been questioned, andor the package siezed!)

Look, this is not okay. Multiply that by 100,000 other vaping packages going out..........this can't happen!!! But it is still happening.

 

[Rickajho]

Here is a small excerpt from the bill that outlines shipping eliquid to Indiana:

Sec. 3. (a) Except as otherwise permitted by this article, a person
may not purchase, receive, manufacture, import, or transport, or

cause to be imported or transported from another state, territory,
or country into Indiana, or transport, ship, barter, give away,
exchange, furnish, or otherwise handle or dispose of e-liquid, or to
possess e-liquid for purpose of sale.
(b) A person may not knowingly receive or acquire e-liquid
from a person or authorized distributor who does not hold a valid
permit under this article to sell, deliver, furnish, or give the

e-liquid.

So while it doesn't specifically say you can't sell to someone in Indiana, it very plainly states you can't ship it to us.
It's stupid, but true.

Nope and nope. Working with just your specific citations:

...a person may not purchase, receive, manufacture, import, or transport, or cause to be imported or transported from another state, territory, or country into Indiana...

A person may not knowingly receive or acquire e-liquid
from a person or authorized distributor who does not hold a valid
permit under this article to sell, deliver, furnish, or give the e-liquid.

Person - that would be you. There is no mention of any implications or consequences for any business or individual not located in Indiana who actually supplies the e-liquid if "a person" within Indiana sets things in motion.

So short of catching "a person" in the act I would file this one under "unenforceable mandate." Unless the State of Indiana has somehow managed to create their own mini Customs department - that has the right to interfere with Interstate Commerce and hold USPS, UPS etc. at gunpoint and make demands - it's scare tactics. (Sadly that seems to be working on most retailers.)

 

[Racehorse]

... I wouldn't have a problem Buying from a B&M. But with EVERYTHING that went down, and the Way it went down, I would have a Hard Time giving my Money to many selling e-Liquids in Indiana.

Understand. Guess we will have to see which B&Ms in IN survive all this.

 

[tmcase]

That's true for the Arkansas market, for Indiana though, B&M's are restricted to selling e-liquid made by one of the 6 companies that received permits, I believe. That's not a thriving market.

That is true and that is why many small B&M's have closed their doors and I won't buy from any that remain open because I don't want to contribute to the monopoly.

 

[tmcase]

If all this online banning turns out to benefit B&Ms, which IMHO make communities more vibrant, then there is a way to look at this in a positive way once you "adjust" your expectations.

At what cost? Is having your options, freedom to buy where you please taken away a good thing?

 

[Racehorse]

So short of catching "a person" in the act I would file this one under "unenforceable mandate." Unless the State of Indiana has somehow managed to create their own mini Customs department - that has the right to interfere with Interstate Commerce and hold USPS, UPS etc. at gunpoint and make demands - it's scare tactics. (Sadly that seems to be working on most retailers.)

Do you want me to give you a list of leaking packages I have received from eliquid vendors since the day I started vaping? One was in the early days during the golden years of vaping, and turned into my having to write up a formal negative report here, because the vendor didn't see fit to even address my problem, let alone my having to take a pail of soap and water down to my mailbox at the road, and apoloze profusely to my carrier, etc. for it getting on him.

Since then it's happened many more times. Many more.

Very easy for a postal inspector to flag a package like that, they don't know what is leaking out, they have to keep their staff safe..........so they would probably call in somebody at that point.

This is why I just buy from a B&M now. LOL Walk in, walk out, done deal. So it costs me a bit more. Not willing to take the risk now that online sales is against the law here.

 

[tmcase]

I worry about all those new and younger vapers. If their favorite B+M has closed and they run out of juice, how long before they pick up a pack of cigarettes? I think someone in Indiana should start a list and send it to the Governor's office. An "I returned to smoking because of your stupid law" list!

Governor Pennes wouldn't care. He's being paid by Big Tobacco.

 

[pennysmalls]

That is true and that is why many small B&M's have closed their doors and I won't buy from any that remain open because I don't want to contribute to the monopoly.

Exactly. I have a shop literally less than a mile from my house that I will never step foot into again and it's the states fault. I don't blame the shop.

 

[Racehorse]

That's true for the Arkansas market, for Indiana though, B&M's are restricted to selling e-liquid made by one of the 6 companies that received permits, I believe. That's not a thriving market.

oh. Yes, thanks to you and Ziodman for pointing this out to me. That really sucks.

 

[Verb]

It just gets down to is a Person Willing to take the Risk, and are they Willing to put Someone else at Risk, by shipping e-Liquids into Indiana?

I think Rossum put it Best about having Options.

For Me, I wouldn't put myself at Risk. And I sure as heck Wouldn't want to put someone else at Risk. I would just Plan a Road and gas up the War Wagon for an Out-of-State Nicotine Run

Do you self report sales tax to your resident state for all (not just vape related) out-of-state purchases mailed to you?

 

[zoiDman]

Do you self report sales tax to your resident state for all (not just vape related) out-of-state purchases mailed to you?

Oh Yeah... Doesn't Everyone?

It goes on Line 91 of your CA 540 Form.

 

[pennysmalls]

I had the same thought as Verb. Self report taxes if and when tax becomes an issue. Hopefully this crap in Indiana will be resolved by then and it won't be an issue at all.

 

[zoiDman]

I had the same thought as Verb. If receipts are kept and the taxes get self reported the problem *is* solved. ...

How is the Problem Solved?

 

[pennysmalls]

zoi- I was editing as you were answering. My first response was typed very quickly while making dinner and not complete.

 

[zoiDman]

zoi- I was editing as you were answering. My first response was typed very quickly while making dinner and not complete.

Gotcha.

Guess I just Missed the Entire Self Reporting of Taxes thing. Or how it plays into all of this? But that's Ok.

zoiD