Indianapolis Area Residents - URGENT

[Brew1961]

Jon Murray @ The Indy Star has reposted the E-cigarette piece to try to get more inormation out to the public. Brew

More on: Indy’s proposed smoking ban and the debate over e-cigarettes | Deep-Fried Politics | The Indianapolis Star | IndyStar.com

 

[mg7454]

Thank You
Dr. Seigel for your efforts as an advocate of vapers!

I thank
CASAA!


Thank You Vocalek and Greg Conley
for all that you do!

Thank You
ECF!

and

Thanks to all who work as advocates of vapers & tobacco harm reduction!


You are truly doing a great service!​

 

[KevNewEngland]

Thank You
Dr. Seigel for your efforts as an advocate of vapers!
I thank
CASAA!
Thank You Vocalek and Greg Conley
for all that you do!
Thank You
ECF!
and Thanks to all who work as advocates of vapers & tobacco harm reduction!
You are truly doing a great service!

Very well said. I really appreciate all that CASAA does for us. I recently donated to this forum and the "We Are Vapers" project. As soon as I can, I will be donating to CASAA as well. For a while now, I have had a terrible feeling about what some people want to do to us. I have been very encouraged by the likes of Bill Godshall, Kristen and everybody involved with CASAA. I want to help. Thanks CASAA!

 

[Goldbug]

I received the message below, in response to my follow-up emails after the committee meeting on Tuesday.

This is a reply from one of the staunchest anti smoking members of the council. It is full of ignorance, mis-information, hypocrisy, and self righteousness. Sadly I do not see a good chance of winning this battle when we are confronting a board majority with this kind of thinking.

--------------

Mike
Here is the response I sent Dr Siegel.
Hope this helps you understand our view point.

Pam Hickman
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pam Hickman <pahickman@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Clearing the Air About Electronic Cigarettes
To: "Siegel, Michael" <mbsiegel@bu.edu>

Dear Mr Siegel,

Thank you for you comments and concerns.

As you probably heard at the meeting, I said we are not trying to stop any one from smoking cigarettes or e-cigarettes. We are concerned with the health of any one exposed to them. The vapor mist that is expelled is very distasteful to have several people blowing vapor mists at anyone. We did say the research is not completed and therefore could not be judged at this time.

We also read a finding from the information e-mailed to us on the e-cigarettes safety. That article was sent to me and others by several people. As you heard me read from those findings some do contain levels of carcinogens (as stated in the material they sent me) but because we do not have a measurable standard, it would be impossible to say they are completely safe. And yes, it was not an FDA finding. But it was sent to several council members in support of e-cigarettes. So you can see why read from the very script they sent me.

Please do not misunderstand our work on this proposal.We feel no smoking should jeopardize the future health of children, workers or those with illnesses that are affected by smoking of a cigarette or e-cigarettes.
E-cigarettes are recommended for anyone who wants to stop smoking and as the wife of a Cardiologist, I hear daily how patients have found something to replace such an awful habit.

We have standards by which food is kept and preserved for public establishments. We have laws that say we can not carry a fire arm into a bar or restaurant without a permit let alone carry out shooting practice near our citizens. Needless to say we have many laws that protect the citizens. This is one that has taken too long to become a law.

The health and safety of others is most important.That is what we were voted into office to do-protect the citizens from undue harm.

One last point, a patch or gum only effects the person using it. Vapors are expelled and go into the air we breath inside a bar or restaurant as well as when those vapors land, they land on our food, utensils, drinks as well as our hair and clothing which then is transported home. Again, thank you for your concerns. I hope you will better understand ours.

Pam Hickman
CCC Marion County-At Large

 

[DC2]

Seriously, the vapor we exhale CLEANS the air of existing germs, and is likely far more sanitary than the breath she is already exhaling.
If she is so damn worried about germs, she out to be begging us to come sit next to her and vape while she eats.

 

[Goldbug]

Agree. If you saw the video of the meeting. One of the council members thought this idea was so ridiculous that he advised Mrs. Hicks that she was expelling vapor mist in his direction just from speaking. A polite way of saying how ignorant she actually is. He used the example of someone sneezing behind her at a theater and asked if the council should also ban coughing and sneezing in public.

 

[Angi2299]

At the next public hearing of the ordinance, you all need to show up with the largest bottles of spray air freshener and body cologne you can find. Spray it around... It isn't against the LAW after all!

 

[Luisa]

I received the message below, in response to my follow-up emails after the committee meeting on Tuesday.

This is a reply from one of the staunchest anti smoking members of the council. It is full of ignorance, mis-information, hypocrisy, and self righteousness. Sadly I do not see a good chance of winning this battle when we are confronting a board majority with this kind of thinking.

--------------

Mike
Here is the response I sent Dr Siegel.
Hope this helps you understand our view point.

Pam Hickman
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pam Hickman <pahickman@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Clearing the Air About Electronic Cigarettes
To: "Siegel, Michael" <mbsiegel@bu.edu>

Dear Mr Siegel,

Thank you for you comments and concerns.

As you probably heard at the meeting, I said we are not trying to stop any one from smoking cigarettes or e-cigarettes. We are concerned with the health of any one exposed to them. The vapor mist that is expelled is very distasteful to have several people blowing vapor mists at anyone. We did say the research is not completed and therefore could not be judged at this time.

We also read a finding from the information e-mailed to us on the e-cigarettes safety. That article was sent to me and others by several people. As you heard me read from those findings some do contain levels of carcinogens (as stated in the material they sent me) but because we do not have a measurable standard, it would be impossible to say they are completely safe. And yes, it was not an FDA finding. But it was sent to several council members in support of e-cigarettes. So you can see why read from the very script they sent me.

Please do not misunderstand our work on this proposal.We feel no smoking should jeopardize the future health of children, workers or those with illnesses that are affected by smoking of a cigarette or e-cigarettes.
E-cigarettes are recommended for anyone who wants to stop smoking and as the wife of a Cardiologist, I hear daily how patients have found something to replace such an awful habit.

We have standards by which food is kept and preserved for public establishments. We have laws that say we can not carry a fire arm into a bar or restaurant without a permit let alone carry out shooting practice near our citizens. Needless to say we have many laws that protect the citizens. This is one that has taken too long to become a law.

The health and safety of others is most important.That is what we were voted into office to do-protect the citizens from undue harm.

One last point, a patch or gum only effects the person using it. Vapors are expelled and go into the air we breath inside a bar or restaurant as well as when those vapors land, they land on our food, utensils, drinks as well as our hair and clothing which then is transported home. Again, thank you for your concerns. I hope you will better understand ours.

Pam Hickman
CCC Marion County-At Large

She says she is the wife of a cardiologist. I would have thought the wife of a cardiologist would have been able to write a response using correct grammar,punctuation,etc. Maybe she did not achieve his level of education. I commented in a "catty" way,but I don"t care!

 

[Goldbug]

Especially this line:

"E-cigarettes are recommended for anyone who wants to stop smoking and as the wife of a Cardiologist, I hear daily how patients have found something to replace such an awful habit."

If she believes what she writes, I would have thought she would be an advocate of e-cigs.

 

[DC2]

Between Hickman and Mansfield it seems clear that idiocy rules at this point.
That's really all I can say about that.

To be an idiot is one thing.
To be proud of being an idiot is a whole 'nuther thing altogether.

These are exactly the kind of people who should NEVER be in office.

 

[mg7454]

Especially this line:

"E-cigarettes are recommended for anyone who wants to stop smoking and as the wife of a Cardiologist, I hear daily how patients have found something to replace such an awful habit."

If she believes what she writes, I would have thought she would be an advocate of e-cigs.

For Example: here is one of the pharmaceuticals
approved by the FDA for smoking cessation:

Chantix
(varenicline)

Side Effects of Chantix - for the Consumer
Constipation; gas; headache; increased appetite; nausea; stomach upset; taste changes; trouble sleeping; vivid, strange, or unusual dreams; vomiting.

Seek medical attention right away if any of these
SEVERE side effects occur when using Chantix:

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, throat, or tongue; unusual hoarseness); behavior changes; chest pain; fainting; fast, slow, or irregular heartbeat; hallucinations; memory loss; new or worsening mental or mood problems (eg, aggression, agitation, anger, anxiety, depression, nervousness, thoughts of hurting other people); persistent trouble sleeping; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; seizures; severe or persistent nausea; suicidal thoughts or actions; vision changes.

There have been reports of myocardial infarction (MI) and cerebrovascular accident (CVA) including ischemic and hemorrhagic events in patients taking Chantix. In the majority of the reported cases, patients had pre-existing cardiovascular disease and/or other risk factors. Although smoking is a risk factor for MI and CVA, based on temporal relationship between medication use and events, a contributory role of varenicline cannot be ruled out.

No thank you!



I do mean no thanks to big pharmaceuticals & FDA!
(This drug is Not Dangerous?)

I'll keep my PV!



​

 

[Eric A. Blair]

Or Barth is fully aware of the fact and hopes/believes that everyone else is ignorant?

My reading of things makes me lean towards Vocalek's version, but some may believe Barth is more educated...

What Barth is doing is called PROJECTING. It's what clueless statist for hire politicians do. They assume that since the special interests whispering in their ear only care about protecting their turf and profit, that everyone on the "other" side must be doing the same thing. Big Pharma front groups protecting their NRT racket are one trick ponies. They are finished. Funding will dry up when ecigs become even bigger. They have to kill it in the womb...they tried, like a Terminator movie.

Vaping bans are meaningless. It's unenforceable. I live in NJ where there is a "ban". I sit in my office all day and vape.

Whatever. It's odorless. Don't give public serpents like this ......... more power over your life than he thinks he has.

 

[TennDave]

I'm wondering what fatty foods they serve in the restaurants where vaping may become illegal that can cause health problems. How about banning them, or make people take them outside?

 

[kristin]

‎"The vapor mist that is expelled is very distasteful...."

So, apparently, one only has to find something "distasteful" and not even a proven risk to the public, in order to ban someone else from doing it. Proof that this isn't about health but about controlling the behavior of others to appeal to just YOUR standards.

Any non-smoker who thinks this method of control won't eventually affect them and something they enjoy is fooling themselves. By getting away with this, it validates their methods and agenda and it won't stop with tobacco.

 

[capt.n.coke]

A few of us spoke up at the committee meeting, many emailed our reps, even Dr. Siegel himself explained the facts to the council... So now what do we do? I find myself sitting here extremely frustrated by Barth, Hickman, Mansfield, and the others, but I am at a loss of what more I can do?

I feel like going and knocking on their doors and vaping in their faces, however that may not be the best course of action

 

[Placebo Effect]

A few of us spoke up at the committee meeting, many emailed our reps, even Dr. Siegel himself explained the facts to the council... So now what do we do? I find myself sitting here extremely frustrated by Barth, Hickman, Mansfield, and the others, but I am at a loss of what more I can do?

I feel like going and knocking on their doors and vaping in their faces, however that may not be the best course of action

If I wasn't so busy, I'd make up a flyer and print out 100 copies and bring it to the Indy Vapor Shop. The flyer would note that e-cigarettes are about to be included in the smoking ban, and encourage people to take action by going to CASAA.org's Indianapolis Call to Action page.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Why do I get the feeling that several members of this committee have managed to outrun the Peter Principle?

;-)

 

[capt.n.coke]

If I wasn't so busy, I'd make up a flyer and print out 100 copies and bring it to the Indy Vapor Shop. The flyer would note that e-cigarettes are about to be included in the smoking ban, and encourage people to take action by going to CASAA.org's Indianapolis Call to Action page.

How about this? http://s289695023.onlinehome.us/Attention-Indy-Vapers.pdf

Nothing fancy, but gets the job done.

 

[TomCatt]

If I wasn't so busy, I'd make up a flyer and print out 100 copies and bring it to the Indy Vapor Shop. The flyer would note that e-cigarettes are about to be included in the smoking ban, and encourage people to take action by going to CASAA.org's Indianapolis Call to Action page.

Was going to suggest flyers with some pertinent excerpts from Dr. Siegel's and Hickman's emails; but a more general flyer would probably be in better taste.

 

[Vocalek]

The book I just finished reading, The War on Smokers and the Rise of the Nanny State, by Theodore I. King, makes the point that smoking is just the beginning of the Nanny State practices. The methods being used to denormalize smokers will be used to denormalize anyone who does something they don't like.

He discussed how health care is being used to try to coerce smokers into quitting in the UK. He talked about a man who needed an operation on his foot. The doctors refused to operate unless he quit smoking for a month before and after surgery. He was unable to do so, so they continue to refuse to fix his foot, but give him daily shots of morphine for the pain.

As health care becomes more and more rationed in the US, I can see the same type of thing happening here. And then it would not be such a large step for doctors to refuse to operate on the obese, because their healing and recovery are even more problematic than that of smokers.

"You didn't eat your broccoli? No operation for you!"

He cautions those who don't smoke that everything he discussed in the book could happen to any other group of people if we don't take back our freedoms from the Nannies.