Industry Concerns

[The Rebel]

OK, I' hearing a resounding silence. Let's try something else. Can anyone come up with two things that we can do now? They should be benefit both the venders and consumers.

Hi Traver, I've participated in various discussions and have compiled this list:

Dear vendor letter suggested earlier sent to vendors on behalf of and signed by petition of ecf members.
2. Ask ECF to post a sticky in all forums regarding the caution about diacetyl so that it will be available.
3. Petition flavor manufacturers to change their formula.
4. Form a consumer group.
5. Patronize suppliers that support your position regarding disclosure of e-liquid contents.
6. Suppliers Trade organization.
7. take donations for private testing
Please add...Let's start taking action.

I started with trying to get a letter posted as a sticky. You could help by going to this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-discussion/130120-do-you-agree-disagree.html and posting.

thanks!

8. IMPORTANT: Every vendor should adopt and utilize a proven quality control program. Chinese companies like these two already use ISO quality systems in their operation and USA vendors should too. Example: ShenZhen Joye Technology Co. Ltd/ ISO 9001:2000, or Moscow Technology Co., Ltd./ ISO9001 and ISO14000

9. If USA vendors choose to test their product, it should be done by an accredited, ISO17025 certified lab. Not only should they have the end result tested, but each ingredient should be tested individually as mixing liquids can affect characteristics or dilute elements found in the liquid.

A couple of suggestions I wanted to add. I've spent the last 20 years of my working career as a quality professional and without some type of a good quality management system in place, vendors will be fresh meat to the FDA. Checks and balances are needed to ensure that what they say they are selling is actually what THEY are selling. And if they send samples to some rinky dink lab that isn't accrediated and certified, the results are and will always be suspect.

 

[Traver]

No. 2 on the FieryOnes list.

I'm still new to this and know nothing about how EFC makes it's decision. I want work with them, the vendors and the FDC but I don't want to be dependent on EFC. I can start a website bulletin boards, email lists, chat or whatever else is needed at any time. If this by chance does get going we will need a place to gather and post information. The EFC isn't really set up for that.

 

[Bovinia]

8. IMPORTANT: Every vendor should adopt and utilize a proven quality control program. Chinese companies like these two already use ISO quality systems in their operation and USA vendors should too. Example: ShenZhen Joye Technology Co. Ltd/ ISO 9001:2000, or Moscow Technology Co., Ltd./ ISO9001 and ISO14000

9. If USA vendors choose to test their product, it should be done by an accredited, ISO17025 certified lab. Not only should they have the end result tested, but each ingredient should be tested individually as mixing liquids can affect characteristics or dilute elements found in the liquid.

A couple of suggestions I wanted to add. I've spent the last 20 years of my working career as a quality professional and without some type of a good quality management system in place, vendors will be fresh meat to the FDA. Checks and balances are needed to ensure that what they say they are selling is actually what THEY are selling. And if they send samples to some rinky dink lab that isn't accrediated and certified, the results are and will always be suspect.

I would love to see these happen.

 

[Traver]

Here's a thought that I had. We all know about biased reports often not supported by the facts.
The fact is that every study and analysis of e cigs has produced evidence that vaping is safer than cigarettes and no evidence at all that it is more dangerous. Less chemicals, no deaths, no fire hazard, etc. Shouldn't we have something that sums up the positive evidence and our side of the story. Maybe a short summery then more extensive articles and links to them. In fact most of this has been done we just need a way to put it all together.

I don't know if anyone is still interested in a consumer group but this seems to be something we could do. If we did have something like this then we could also encourage vapors to at least send a link to the authors of every article they come across.

Some stuff that Vocalek posted at:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...switching-e-cigs-despite-ban.html#post2305887


A few words from her post

Recently the Italian No Smoking Organization issued a press release, “Electronic cigarettes are safe and can help quitting,” describing Professor Riccardo Polosa's new study on smoking cessation using electronic cigarettes. In the July 20, 2010 issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention Virginia Commonwealth University published the results of their study comparing smoking to two brands of electronic cigarettes. This research showed that both brands of e-cigarettes “significantly decreased tobacco abstinence symptom ratings,” and “neither of the electronic cigarettes exposed users to measurable levels of nicotine or CO.” In the April 29, 2010 edition of Tobacco Control, University of Auckland researchers reported on a single blind randomized study. A 16 mg electronic cigarette alleviated desire to smoke as well as the Nicorette inhalator, and participants found them more pleasant to use, producing less irritation of mouth and throat, despite the fact that the electronic cigarette raised serum nicotine only half as much as the Nicorette inhalator and only one-tenth as much as a tobacco cigarette. All of these clinical trials point to the ability of electronic cigarettes to be a safer, effective alternative to smoking.

Surveys report that up to 80% of e-cigarette consumers are using them as a complete replacement for all their tobacco smoking and over 90% report their health has improved.

 

[xg4bx]

the industry should ditch the analog look-alikes. it is not a cigarette nor is it smoking, it shouldn't have remnants of a habit we left behind and that has such a negative connotation in society. ditch the white battery/orange l.e.d. design. or at least replace the l.e.d. with purple or blue.

i understand that it might make the "transition" easier for people but they need to realize also that they're not smoking anymore too. new habit/hobby, new aesthetics.

 

[FieryOne]

the industry should ditch the analog look-alikes. it is not a cigarette nor is it smoking, it shouldn't have remnants of a habit we left behind and that has such a negative connotation in society. ditch the white battery/orange l.e.d. design. or at least replace the l.e.d. with purple or blue.

i understand that it might make the "transition" easier for people but they need to realize also that they're not smoking anymore too. new habit/hobby, new aesthetics.

I like the size and feel of the analog look alikes, especially when out at a club. I also enjoy the fun of decorating them so they don't look like an analog.

 

[guitardedmark]

Just wanted to make sure I got a post in before it was too late.


Having said that, I think it is pretty clear that makers of juice need to get more professional in their approach.
If they don't do it themselves, the FDA is going to do it for them, that is a guarantee.

I agree completely. This is my only real concern with the industry.

 

[guitardedmark]

I think the biggest risk in the vaping is in the juice. As a group we are entrusting one of the most critical organs (officially I guess a pair) we have to people who rarely have any education in any related field (be it chemistry or medical) and little or no motivation to provide a safe product. Frankly, with the FDA situation the way it is, I can imagine that there are a few vendors who see little reason to invest money in safety; make as much now while they can. Because there is no consumer watchdog, it would be fairly easy for an unscrupulous vendor to take advantage of the vaping public. So a consumer advocacy organization, not beholden to the vendors, would seem to be necessary to ensure validity of any safety claims, maybe providing a 'seal of approval' type thing.

So the two improvements I see as being good for the industry and the consumers, and two that would go hand in hand, would be a bonafide consumer advocate and safety standards.

Perfect! I couldn't agree more!

 

[kaaayd]

My main concern is the long term effects of PG and VG. We believe that it's better than smoking, and it does make my lungs feel better, but who knows what effects it will have on a long term user.

 

[wv2win]

My main concern is the long term effects of PG and VG. We believe that it's better than smoking, and it does make my lungs feel better, but who knows what effects it will have on a long term user.

Use some common sense and ask your doctor. I did and he couldn't be happier.

 

[MadHatter]

My main concern is the long term effects of PG and VG. We believe that it's better than smoking, and it does make my lungs feel better, but who knows what effects it will have on a long term user.

Here is a link for an abstract on Tests for the chronic toxicity of propylene glycol and triethylene glycol on monkeys and rats...

 

[warbdan]

@MadHatter - Sweet find. That's nice to know.

 

[vapomike]

the industry should ditch the analog look-alikes. it is not a cigarette nor is it smoking, it shouldn't have remnants of a habit we left behind and that has such a negative connotation in society. ditch the white battery/orange l.e.d. design. or at least replace the l.e.d. with purple or blue.

i understand that it might make the "transition" easier for people but they need to realize also that they're not smoking anymore too. new habit/hobby, new aesthetics.

I think there will always be a place for the look a likes. When I first went into vaping, I wanted something that felt and looked like a cigarette. I bought a few disposable ones at the mall tried it for a week and loved it. Got online and found better PV's and ended up with the 510 which reminded me of smoking one of my cloves. Now I when I was on my vaporizer, I didn't consider myself a non smoker. Because when it went out I was right back on the analogs. I ran out of atty's and just didn't order any again. Was to easy just to go back to the store and buy a pack. Though that is getting to expensive so I'm back and stock piling so I don't run out and have to go back. I would say a majority of the people on this forum if vaping suffers a major loss and gets banned then they will back to getting their fix from analogs. I know this isn't the best outlook but I just look at it just as if I switched from camel to marlboro and not actually quit smoking. TBH before I found these PV's I had given up on the idea that I would ever be tobacco free.

Regardless of the color or size if your sucking on something and blowing out a cloud, ehm it's bad mmmkay. In the eyes of the society at least, especially something like a screwdriver or silver bullet. When you pull the ones that don't look like a cig out in public, you get some really strange looks and a cigarette would be innocent compared to what they are thinking you are smoking. The first time I took mine to work to show my boss, I just started hitting it in the backroom without letting her know what it was and the first words out of her mouth was whatever is in that thing better be legal lol.

 

[Traver]

It was the analog look-a-likes at one of the convenience stores that that got me started on vaping. Being a bit of a skeptic I didn't buy one of these products. Instead I went on the internet to get more information. I did a google search for something like Electronic cigarettes. The reviews that came up were mostly recommending the most expensive analog look-a-likes. It didn't take me long to figure out that these reviews were sending me to the companies that in one way or another were paying them the most money. So I started looking for user forums where I knew my chances to get an unbiased opinion were much better. Unfortunately it took far too many hours of reading to understand the terms, abbreviations and language of vapors. Eventually I bought a KR808 starter kit and it really worked for me.

So as I see the biggest problem with analog look-a-likes is that it is the the companies that spend the most on advertising and the least on good products are the ones smokers are most to find and buy. These products are also the least likely to work for getting people to quit tobacco. It would really be good if we had a way to be one of the first to come up during an internet search and get some reliable information out. I don't know how but maybe it's something we should be thinking about.

 

[wv2win]

........So as I see the biggest problem with analog look-a-likes is that it is the the companies that spend the most on advertising and the least on good products are the ones smokers are most to find and buy. These products are also the least likely to work for getting people to quit tobacco. It would really be good if we had a way to be one of the first to come up during an internet search and get some reliable information out. I don't know how but maybe it's something we should be thinking about.

I agree with this idea completely. The under-powered, small analog types with the big marketing budgets just reenforce the idea that PV's are just a gimmick that doesn't work, as well as alienates those who dispise smoking. Let's hope that at least a few of the better PV's are finally adopted by a company with a large marketing budget and get more exposure.