Indy at it again, e-cigs added to definition of smoking in prop 136

[Vocalek]

*sigh* Well, I guess we know where I'll be on the 16th. I simply will not let this rest.

By the way, I ask everyone to take a look at the comment from "IziaElectricman at 5:42 PM April 04, 2012"

Nasty stuff. I would love to see someone calmly and rationally debunk the arguments they present.

Unfortunately this guy has been following any links posted in ECF and his postings pop up in the comments sections repeatedly like a turd that won't flush. He is impervious to facts, logic, and rational thought.

Fortunately his writing is so disjointed that I doubt too many folks take him seriously.

 

[Hoosier]

Unfortunately this guy has been following any links posted in ECF and his postings pop up in the comments sections repeatedly like a turd that won't flush. He is impervious to facts, logic, and rational thought.

Fortunately his writing is so disjointed that I doubt too many folks take him seriously.

Yeah, it's hard to miss the hate that is pounding on that keyboard. Makes one wonder if the hate is only toward vaping or if it is just a general condition of the person's mind.

 

[capt.n.coke]

So, in 2009 there was this study of air quality across a number of locations in Indy. Here is one version of it http://www.in.gov/isdh/tpc/files/Indianapoils_airmonitoring_Oct2009(1).pdf and if you google it there are more detailed ones out there.

I was just wondering if there is anything in it that may help our case. Perhaps one of the geniuses in here may see something that supports our cause.

Just a thought I had. Thanks.



-C

 

[kristin]

So, in 2009 there was this study of air quality across a number of locations in Indy. Here is one version of it http://www.in.gov/isdh/tpc/files/Indianapoils_airmonitoring_Oct2009(1).pdf and if you google it there are more detailed ones out there.

I was just wondering if there is anything in it that may help our case. Perhaps one of the geniuses in here may see something that supports our cause.

Just a thought I had. Thanks.



-C

I'd have one question. "How many of the non-smoking workers in those businesses - where smoking has been allowed for years - have actually developed any significant health problems that can be directly linked to the smoke?"

They claim that second-hand smoke (and now vapor) in bars is a serious health risk - so smoking in bars should be a crime - but they have yet to have produced one victim. Although, they are succeeding in creating plenty of victims of joblessness.

 

[Goldbug]

Getting good response from my customer list.

Also, the "call to action" page needs to be updated to indicate the April 16th. vote. I just send an email to CASAA to see if it could be changed quickly.

Mike

 

[Goldbug]

Will not say who sent the following email to the council, but I thought I would share it.

Mike

"I am emailing you because I am SICK AND TIRED of liberal legislators like you dictating how I live my life. Some of you legislators ( YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) are trying to take away the last bit of freedom my husband and I have before we die by trying to ban e-cigarette smoking in all public places in Indianapolis. My husband and I gave up smoking (3) years ago by using electronic cigarettes. My doctor tried for 20 years to get us to quit smoking. When I told him we had quit and how, he researched e-cigarettes and now recommends them to his smoking patients. What is with you people!?!?!? I can tell you what is wrong with you…….It’s called controlling the masses!!! That is the communist nature coming out in you! You are no better than Hitler!!! Whatever happened to "FREEDOM OF CHOICE"? It's ok to kill unborn babies because of "women's rights"! HOW ABOUT THOSE BABIES RIGHTS!?! You want men to be able to marry men and women to be able to marry women because you say it is their right! HOW ABOUT MY RIGHTS?!?!?!

Barack Hussein Obama and his czars (that’s you) are doing everything they can to destroy (MY COUNTRY) i.e. NATIONAL HEALTH CARE! I had 5 children by the age of 21 and I raised them on my own before I married my 2nd husband of 40 years. Unlike many people today, I took responsibility for my children. They didn't wear $100 tennis shoes, we had 1 little 12 inch TV, and we ate a lot of macaroni and cheese. We did without extras to be able to afford the necessities! WE DID HAVE HEALTH insurance!!! I never ask for welfare or food stamps and I didn't ask big daddy government to pay for our health insurance! That was my responsibility, not the governments and not my neighbors!! If people today would learn to live with fewer "things" they could afford health insurance!

I am 70 and my husband is 73. Now some of you legislators come along when we are in our "golden years" and your whole goal in life is to take away what we as taxpaying, upstanding American citizens enjoy! I am tired! I would like to retire but how can I? You take everything I make!

Why don't you spend your time and energy putting a stop to the raping, stealing and killing that goes on every day here in Indianapolis and LEAVE ME AND MINE ALONE!! I am tired of paying for everyone else! IT IS MY TIME!! GET OUT OF MY LIFE AND MY POCKETBOOK!!"

 

[Placebo Effect]

Always glad to see e-mails sent, but e-mails like those will not help us sway the Democrats in any way.

 

[Goldbug]

Always glad to see e-mails sent, but e-mails like those will not help us sway the Democrats in any way.

Unfortunately I see no way to change a liberals mind on just about anything. Debate a liberal with facts and they always throw emotional issues back your way. Facts mean nothing to a closed mind.

I agree the email will probably not sway anyone but I can totally appreciate the sentiments expressed.

 

[kristin]

Getting good response from my customer list.

Also, the "call to action" page needs to be updated to indicate the April 16th. vote. I just send an email to CASAA to see if it could be changed quickly.

Mike

The CASAA CTA page has been updated with the information. Thanks!

 

[capt.n.coke]

So, I work downtown and often walk through Circle Center mall (one of the largest shopping centers in Marion county) to get some lunch. And everyday I pass the Smoke-King kiosk that sells crappy gen1 510 stuff. Usually I just chuckle and keep walking, but today I decided to stop and see if they were aware of prop 136, seeing as how it will kill their business not being able to vape in the non-smoking mall in Marion County.

Me: "Are you aware of prop 136 that will ban vaping in non-smoking areas in Marion county?"
Them: "Oh that will take years to pass before that happens"
Me: "They vote on Monday."
Them: (shocked look on his face) "What is it called again?"
Me: "Prop 136, city county council. I thought you would like to know since it will kill your business model in malls." And then I walked away.

I'm not sure why essentially did that guy a favor. I guess I just wanted to know if he was just in it for the money or not. I got my answer. Who knows, maybe it will be one more person joining the fight. I doubt it.

I wonder if he will be there next week as I walk to get my lunch.

 

[kristin]

We like kiosk vendors for one important fact - they introduce a LOT of "off line" smokers to e-cigarettes. Believe it or not, a lot of those vapers are perfectly happy with those devices and still feel they save money vs. cigarettes. Kiosk vendors are an essential step for a lot of vapers who made the switch, but it would be nice if a lot more of them were like Mac and were educated on the issues. Maybe drop off some CASAA brochures or cards to them and help them along?

 

[Placebo Effect]

So, I work downtown and often walk through Circle Center mall (one of the largest shopping centers in Marion county) to get some lunch. And everyday I pass the Smoke-King kiosk that sells crappy gen1 510 stuff. Usually I just chuckle and keep walking, but today I decided to stop and see if they were aware of prop 136, seeing as how it will kill their business not being able to vape in the non-smoking mall in Marion County.

Me: "Are you aware of prop 136 that will ban vaping in non-smoking areas in Marion county?"
Them: "Oh that will take years to pass before that happens"
Me: "They vote on Monday."
Them: (shocked look on his face) "What is it called again?"
Me: "Prop 136, city county council. I thought you would like to know since it will kill your business model in malls." And then I walked away.

I'm not sure why essentially did that guy a favor. I guess I just wanted to know if he was just in it for the money or not. I got my answer. Who knows, maybe it will be one more person joining the fight. I doubt it.

I wonder if he will be there next week as I walk to get my lunch.

If you could swing back there tomorrow, or know anyone who will be back there, I'd like this guy's phone number. I tried for a good 15 minutes to find one and came up empty aside from a Smoke King in another county.

Edit: I actually just got in touch with the guy at the Greenwood Mall, and he's going to be calling everyone. Apparently one of the owners of the e-cig company has several other businesses in the Centre Mall.

 

[capt.n.coke]

We like kiosk vendors for one important fact - they introduce a LOT of "off line" smokers to e-cigarettes. Believe it or not, a lot of those vapers are perfectly happy with those devices and still feel they save money vs. cigarettes. Kiosk vendors are an essential step for a lot of vapers who made the switch, but it would be nice if a lot more of them were like Mac and were educated on the issues. Maybe drop off some CASAA brochures or cards to them and help them along?

That's a good point Kristin; I hadn't really thought of it that way. I think this whole prop 136 thing just has me a little frustrated, or maybe a lot. I'll go back and plug CASAA and see if I can get a number for Placebo Effect.

 

[capt.n.coke]

Okay, so I took my daily mall stroll again today and stopped by Smoke King. There was a different guy there today who was aware of the legislation (although was very hesitant to admit it until he realized I wasn't a sale). I explained who CASAA was, left their info and also a printout of Prop 136. He said that he wasn't on ECF. We chatted for a few minutes and I tried to make the point that we need their help on this ban as they have a vested interest in vaping in non-smoking areas.

He also said that he was surprised the guy I talked to yesterday, Eli, wasn't aware of the ban. It sounded like Eli was the boss of the place.

I got their card which has their website and phone number of it. Their phone number is on their website's Contact Us page as well, http://www.smokekingcigs.com (Man look at those prices, ouch!)

I get that in the larger picture of things more people being aware of and trying vaping is a good thing. A mall kiosk is certainly a good location for that. I do however stand by my opinion that I generally am not a fan of these vendors, because I know more people that have paid twice what they should have for inferior products and then swear off vaping than I do actual vapers (excluding ecf'ers.) I've tried to convert a number of them again, and that one bad experience keeps them on cigarettes.

Anyway I hope this helps.

PS: The CCC updated their website and shows Prop 136 as the very last item on the agenda for Monday.

 

[kristin]

I do however stand by my opinion that I generally am not a fan of these vendors, because I know more people that have paid twice what they should have for inferior products and then swear off vaping than I do actual vapers (excluding ecf'ers.) I've tried to convert a number of them again, and that one bad experience keeps them on cigarettes.

Anyway I hope this helps.

It's awesome you went back and tried to educate them, Chuck!

I know the "overpriced crap" personally - I waaay overspent on our first kits from an expo booth at our state fair. However, if it hadn't been for that booth, I may not have ever discovered vaping nor ECF and would not be volunteering for CASAA now.

We do have to remember that a lot of people can't or won't buy online and mall vendors have overhead (those spaces are VERY expensive to rent) that online vendors don't, so they have to charge more to make any money. The whole purpose of selling e-cigarettes is to make a profit - even for our most beloved and philanthropic online vendors. As far as people trying those and never going back, I think that will change soon. More and more bricks and mortar stores selling better devices are popping up all over. The mass-marketed minis just got organized faster and started offering the franchises first. I'm willing to bet that just as many cigarette-like mini users upgrade as quit and we can only hope that I'm right and that number continues to rise as more smokers see us using our eGos and Silver Bullets rather than cigarette-like minis. The more people who have upgraded, the more people there are out there spreading the word means more new vapers will be converted already knowing that there is something better out there. I just know that, if I had walked up to that booth nearly 3 years ago and seen an eGo XL rather than something that looked like my cigarette, I wouldn't have been as interested - think about how many people even come here looking for something that "looks and tastes" like what they are "giving up."

The good news is, a lot of those kiosk companies are recognizing that there are better products that are now in a comparable price range and people are getting educated online, so more and more are offering devices more like the 510 or kr808 rather than the cheapo minis we were forced to start with in the early days. If they were really smart, they'd sell a couple eGos, Rivas, etc. right alongside the minis to get buyers interested for the future. They may not be ready to invest in the higher cost and strange looks initially, but they probably will after making that jump we all took in realizing we didn't need it to look and taste just like our cigarette brand anymore.

 

[Brew1961]

What our fine council has proven again and again is they really don't care what the people think or what the studies prove. I'm going to the meeting tonight but Mayor Ballard has already said that this draft has what he wanted....No Private Clubs or Veteran halls will be forced into accepting a ban without a vote within those individual organizations to accept one. He doesn't seem to care about vaping at all as it hasn't impacted him in any way.

So what recourse will we have when this all becomes law? How does one get smokefree e-cigarettes removed from existing legislation? Brew

 

[Brew1961]

Well the Proposition passed and we only had 1 more attendee than before.....4. There were no public comments and the same trio twisted every fact, detail & shred of truth provided to them. Council members Vaughn and McQuillen tried to bring the e-cigarette issue up again as being an unreasonable conclusion based on available information but Council members Barth, Mansfield and Hickman rebutted every effort. I personally stealth vaped through the entire proceeding and about choked when Councilman Barth commented that he found even today that these e-cigarettes were being marketed to children as he found an e-liquid provider that was selling a flavor called Bubblegum. I happened to be vaping Grape Bubblegum at that very moment. Damn if I'm not the biggest child anyone ever saw. One of the council members also commented that if the industry wanted approval from the various councils across America why did they name it an E-cigarette. They commented that the same company ought to try marketing a product called the E-HandGrenade as they were sure it too would get as much negative acclaim as the product being discussed.....Based solely on a name of course.
So to Goldbug, Capt.n.Coke, and eSC. I send my deep felt appreciation and thanks. You Guys Rock!!
The rest of Indy will have to wake up one day when they finally realize they lost quite a lot. Mayor Ballard is getting a proposal with exactly what he asked for and it passed with over 20 votes. If he were to veto it now it will likely be over-ruled....

 

[JChamp]

What our fine council has proven again and again is they really don't care what the people think or what the studies prove. I'm going to the meeting tonight but Mayor Ballard has already said that this draft has what he wanted....No Private Clubs or Veteran halls will be forced into accepting a ban without a vote within those individual organizations to accept one. He doesn't seem to care about vaping at all as it hasn't impacted him in any way.

So what recourse will we have when this all becomes law? How does one get smokefree e-cigarettes removed from existing legislation? Brew

The only way is conclusive independent studies Brew. Good gravy, I hope they begin pouring in soon and are overwhelmingly positive as it relates to minimal risks to users and those around us.

We all know that governments don't have any interest (monetary) in sponsoring any studies. Sad, because private industry studies are always tagged as biased. But it's got to happen. IMO there should be more effort expended on analyzing eCigs than the prohibitionists expend on removing freedom of choice in the name of some sort of pseudo-safety. Medical research has to get that ball and run with it. On the bases mind you (hard scientific research), not merely wandering around in the outfield (spewing educated guesses/opinions).

We need hard studies as ammo, then, and only then, can we petition politicians like councilman McQuillen (sp) to write and/or sponsor proposals that seek to get their regulatory hands off of them.

Standards for juice production would be huge as well. Just guidelines and testing, nothing like what the government is best known for, purposely over-regulation in order to promote favoritism and squash competition.

Yeah, I know, far too much to ask for. I need another beer to continue my pipe dream..

 

[Luisa]

Always glad to see e-mails sent, but e-mails like those will not help us sway the Democrats in any way.

Agreed!!!!