Interesting feedback about PG

[paladinx]

I know people are going to get mad lol. But its just a different perspective, even if you agree, if you dont agree. I just found it interesting how opinions can change so radically with any one topic on e-smoking.





As a side note, hope your cough is ok, its probably nothing. Even if it is the pg, its probably just accumulating in your lungs and wants to come out. you know its funny look what someone has sent me.

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your inquiry. We do not consider Propylene Glycol to be safe. We certainly would be concerned about any consumption of PG. Be aware that pharmaceutical companies are very powerful, and there is a lot of money to be made as far as chemicals are concerned. We cannot believe that the FDA deems PG safe. There are no regulations on skin care and cosmetics unfortunately. Please have a look at our website www.klenzu.com for more information.

To find out about toxic chemicals, please go to:
www.health-report.co.uk/ingredients-directory.htm

In addition, go to: www.klenzu.com Select 'Ingredients', then 'Toxic Ingredients'.

Propylene/Butylene Glycol
Propylene glycol (PG) is a petroleum derivative. It penetrates the skin and can weaken protein and cellular structure. Commonly used to make extracts from herbs. PG is strong enough to remove barnacles from boats! The EPA considers PG so toxic that it requires workers to wear protective gloves, clothing and goggles and to dispose of any PG solutions by burying them in the ground. Because PG penetrates the skin so quickly, the EPA warns against skin contact to prevent consequences such as brain, liver, and kidney abnormalities. But there isn't even a warning label on products such as stick deodorants, where the concentration is greater than in most industrial applications.

From Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS):
Health Hazard Acute And Chronic

INHALATION: May cause respiratory and throat Irritation, central nervous system depression, blood and kidney disorders. May cause Nystagmus, Lymphocytosis.

SKIN: Irritation and dermatitis, absorption.

EYES: Irritation and conjunctivitis.

INGESTION: Pulmonary oedema, brain damage, hypoglycaemia, intravascular hemolysis. Death may occur.




Kind Regards

Kate Riedel
Health Report Team

 

[paladinx]

hahah, i just realized they are selling organic products. That might put a spin on things rofl.

 

[bigeyes]

Maybe, maybe not. I happen to think the FDA is a joke, and our government agencies don't protect us at all.

There are a lot of chemicals in health and beauty products that are bad for us, and the chemicals in perfumes are completely unregulated, even though many of them are toxic and are regulated in other industries. It's messed up.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if in our lifetime they proved that instead of tobacco being the cause of cancer it was really all the other stuff they put in cigarettes and chewing tobacco, or even the stuff in the paper and filters. Wouldn't that be a kick in the head?

I think if PG doesn't bother you, that's great, but anything petroleum derived scares the cr@p out of me. If I could find an all metal e-cig I'd be thrilled to avoid plastic, even. Many of the things in perfumes that make me deathly ill are petroleum derived as well, so I try to steer clear of PG and it seems to be working for me. A couple of puffs from a PG liquid and I feel the difference, even the next morning.

Feeling nauseous is no fun.

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I'm not going to argue the PF safety facts- I have read enough about fog machine studies to know that I feel ok with very small amounts of the stuff. If it was so harmful-I should have been having problems back in my dance- my- ....- off days inhaling the crap out of the stuff in bars. I think the major point everyone who takes issue with one chemical is missing is this.....regardless of PG being safe or not (heck lets go with not) you USED TO INHALE ARSENIC, AMMONIA BENZENE,TAR.....do I really need to list them all?
I see people dropping dead all the time from cancer- or even being killed with arsenic- when was the last time you heard of someone dying from the PG in their lotion?
Seriously.

 

[bigeyes]

No, but you posted to scoff at the idea that it could be harmful.

It might not be to you. Cool. But it could be to some, which is why it's great that non PG liquids exist.

I just don't understand the tone of your original post, that's all. I wasn't posting to argue, but rather to inform that there was another side.

I have actually had to leave clubs before because of the fog from machines, and there have been other threads where people have posted about reacting to PG in beauty products, so while people may not die, it isn't necessarily 'harmless,' that's all.

No disrespect intended, just another POV.

So, when you post, nobody is allowed to respond, is that how it is?

 

[Tallgirl1974]

No, but you posted to scoff at the idea that it could be harmful.

It might not be to you. Cool. But it could be to some, which is why it's great that non PG liquids exist.

I just don't understand the tone of your original post, that's all. I wasn't posting to argue, but rather to inform that there was another side.

I have actually had to leave clubs before because of the fog from machines, and there have been other threads where people have posted about reacting to PG in beauty products, so while people may not die, it isn't necessarily 'harmless,' that's all.

No disrespect intended, just another POV.

So, when you post, nobody is allowed to respond, is that how it is?

Are you directing this towards me?
If no, then ignore..if yes..read on, and I can preface my opinion with no disrespect intended as well. As for the nobody is allowed to respond comment, I'll just ignore that silliness, because, well, I didn't imply that, so its silly.
I didn't say it was harmless- I just do not understand what logic stands behind being scared of something we have encounter in the food chain for years being compared~ even slightly~ to what we used to inhale in cigarette smoke? Do you not see the point I am trying to make? Its highly toxic dangerous known carcinogenic chemicals versus one that simply isn't.
You do know that PG is in tobacco cigarettes too? You smoked those for how long without having to switch to VG cigarettes? lol

 

[bigeyes]

Are you directing this towards me?
If no, then ignore..if yes..read on, and I can preface my opinion with no disrespect intended as well. As for the nobody is allowed to respond comment, I'll just ignore that silliness, because, well, I didn't imply that, so its silly.
I didn't say it was harmless- I just do not understand what logic stands behind being scared of something we have encounter in the food chain for years being compared~ even slightly~ to what we used to inhale in cigarette smoke? Do you not see the point I am trying to make? Its highly toxic dangerous known carcinogenic chemicals versus one that simply isn't.
You do know that PG is in tobacco cigarettes too? You smoked those for how long without having to switch to VG cigarettes? lol

exactly.

Some of us are noticing we feel better without all the junk from regular cigs. I always had a sort of 'hangover' from cigarettes that I don't get from e-cigs, and I think it's from less chemical additives, possibly from not burning paper, who knows? I find the whole thing very interesting.

And yes, I do know PG is in regular cigarettes, I figure the reason I stopped getting allergy symptoms was from switching to that stinkin' gum a couple of years ago. But now I can get my fix and enjoy it, and still wake up feeling great.

I mean, I could have switched to skoal, but it wouldn't have been very ladylike.


Oh, sorry Tallgirl, I didn't realize that was you who replied to my post earlier, I thought it was the OP, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I mean, I could have switched to skoal, but it wouldn't have been very ladylike.

Are you callin my grandma unladylike?

I wish I were kidding. She totally did. It was so gross.

 

[bigeyes]

I have been trying to figure out what the difference is, since many of the same ingredients are in conventional cigarettes that are in perfumes, and I react violently to perfumes, yet only get allergy symptoms from cigarettes.

I know PG bugs me, but it's not the worst offender, obviously, or a cigarette would make me deathly ill, and it doesn't, where perfume does.

But I thought it was interesting in another thread where people switched to tea bags and other materials and stopped getting sore throats from vaping. I'm still convinced vaping and smoking are not the evil the health officials would have us believe they are, but rather some of the ingredients and materials might be the real culprits.

 

[Nuck]

Getting scientific opinion from holistic nut jobs. Nice work. Suddenly I have an urge to dump my PG and funnel flavoured liquid up my .... to 'detoxify'

 

[yvilla]

"Propylene glycol is used in air sanitization and hard surface disinfection and dipropylene glycol is used in air sanitization."

"Propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol were first registered in 1950 and 1959, respectively, by the FDA for use in hospitals as air disinfectants."

"Indoor Non-Food: Propylene glycol is used on the following use sites: air treatment (eating establishments, hospital, commercial, institutional, household, bathroom, transportational facilities); medical premises and equipment, commercial, institutional and industrial premises and equipment; laundry equipment; hard non-porous surface treatments (bathroom facilities); automobiles; air conditioning filters; pet treatment, including cats, dogs, and caged birds; environmental inanimate hard surfaces; garbage containers/storage."

"Target Pests: Odor-causing bacteria, Fleas, Mites, Red lice, Animal pathogenic bacteria (G- and G+ vegetative), Shigella bacteria, Pasteurella bacteria, Listeria bacteria, Herpes Simplex I and II, Animal viruses, Influenza Virus A2, Aspergillus Niger Fungus, Mold/Mildew, Pseudomonas SPP., Shigella Flexneri, Shigella Sonnei."

"General Toxicity Observations
Upon reviewing the available toxicity information, the Agency has concluded that there are no endpoints of concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol. This conclusion is based on the results of toxicity testing of propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol in which dose levels near or above testing limits (as established in the OPPTS 870 series harmonized test guidelines) were employed in experimental animal studies and no significant toxicity observed."

"Carcinogenicity Classification
A review of the available data has shown propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol to be negative for carcinogenicity in studies conducted up to the testing limit doses established by the Agency; therefore, no further carcinogenic analysis is required."

And much more to be seen in the entire document .... .

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf

 

[Nuck]

Thanks yvilla, that was quite an interesting read. I've bookmarked it for later to go over it more thoroughly.

 

[Tone]

Getting scientific opinion from holistic nut jobs. Nice work. Suddenly I have an urge to dump my PG and funnel flavoured liquid up my .... to 'detoxify'

well a good colon cleanse never killed anyone

 

[bigeyes]

Oh, well, if the government says it's ok.......

 

[Nuck]

Oh, well, if the government says it's ok.......

Do you have an alternative?

 

[bigeyes]

Our government agencies need an overhaul. They are not doing their jobs to protect us from things that will kill us, but instead they are a clearinghouse for big business.

Anyone who thinks the FDA and other government agencies are protecting them is kidding themselves. If the FDA only OKs drugs that are safe, why are there recalls after people die? Wouldn't those problems crop up during the trials?

There are tons of books available about just how corrupt the whole system is, but most people don't care until they or someone close to them get sick or die from a drug that shouldn't have been approved, or they can't get decent care because something that is manufactured for pennies costs hundreds of dollars at the pharmacy because our government made it illegal for us to go fill our prescriptions in Canada where it's cheaper for the exact same drugs. They're protecting us, you see, from being able to spend our money where we want to.

The same FDA that is trying to shut down e-cigs is the one that approves drugs. OSHA and the EPA don't really inspire more confidence. A bureaucracy is a bureaucracy, yk? But only holistic nut-jobs and the sick give a cr@p because they have no choice but to care. As long as it doesn't affect you, why worry, right?

 

[Nuck]

Our government agencies need an overhaul. They are not doing their jobs to protect us from things that will kill us, but instead they are a clearinghouse for big business.

Anyone who thinks the FDA and other government agencies are protecting them is kidding themselves. If the FDA only OKs drugs that are safe, why are there recalls after people die? Wouldn't those problems crop up during the trials?

There are tons of books available about just how corrupt the whole system is, but most people don't care until they or someone close to them get sick or die from a drug that shouldn't have been approved, or they can't get decent care because something that is manufactured for pennies costs hundreds of dollars at the pharmacy because our government made it illegal for us to go fill our prescriptions in Canada where it's cheaper for the exact same drugs. They're protecting us, you see, from being able to spend our money where we want to.

The same FDA that is trying to shut down e-cigs is the one that approves drugs. OSHA and the EPA don't really inspire more confidence. A bureaucracy is a bureaucracy, yk? But only holistic nut-jobs and the sick give a cr@p because they have no choice but to care. As long as it doesn't affect you, why worry, right?

I was just asking for an alternative for science based studies on PG.

 

[bigeyes]

I was just asking for an alternative for science based studies on PG.

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_acc/sec_CPT.asp?CID=1478&DID=5629
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/ard/documents/ard-ehp-12.pdf

 

[paladinx]

HAHA best reply for sure. I didnt realize they were selling products till after i wrote it lol.

"Getting scientific opinion from holistic nut jobs. Nice work. Suddenly I have an urge to dump my PG and funnel flavoured liquid up my .... to 'detoxify'"


I guess some of you might be missing the point of that guys post. Sure you can go look up info that says PG is safe bla bla, but thats exactly his point. That they will say things are safe when perhaps maybe they really arent. We live in a world where profit rules, even the food we eat is being mutated, chemically treated, all kinds of crazy bull ****. So i guess his point is, you never know! Dont trust the FDA or these studies 100 percent. I could give many specific examples of this when it comes to medications that showed postive clinical results only to get recalled within 6 months because people were dropping dead.

But whos to worry now? Tallgirl has danced around in clubs for many years till 6am breathing in the fog machine. ITS SAFE! Too bad u didnt suck on the fog machine we would have even more reliable results!

 

[Angela]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/members/paladinx.html paladinx: may I just ask? Are you a vaper, and if so, how long have you been vaping for and what do you use (equipment & liquid)?