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[TheBloke]

Have you tried putting just a regular single coil kanthal build on a different atomizer on there to see what it reads?

I haven't tried Kanthal yet, but I get the same issues as described with multiple TC builds (all single coil) in multiple atomizers.

I'll try vaping a Kanthal coil in Power mode, though I use TC almost exclusively so even if that does work it's not much good to me.

 

[Wraith504]

I haven't tried Kanthal yet, but I get the same issues as described with multiple TC builds (all single coil) in multiple atomizers.

I'll try vaping a Kanthal coil in Power mode, though I use TC almost exclusively so even if that does work it's not much good to me.

Just figured you could put something on there to see what resistance it reads. It would also help if you have a 2nd way of measuring that resistance via an ohm reader or dmm

 

[TheBloke]

OK Kanthal did work, correctly showing 1.8Ω for an Aspire Triton 1.8 coil and then vaping OK

Put a different Titanium build on and Set Resistance read 0.393Ω which is a little low for that build, and then it showed the usual SHORT.

After posting my previous message I had given it another thorough cleaning, and that did change things a little bit - when I next did Set Resistance with no atomizer on, it showed 0.000Ω instead of 0.378Ω. But then it still showed SHORT on a TC fire, and when I just tried Set Resistance on no coil again this time it showed 0.669Ω

Using my micro ohm meter to measure the 510, connecting on the underside (ie probing the black and white wire solder points coming in to the 510) it fluctuates a bit, but shows around 0.6 - 0.7Ω, roughly the same as Set Resistance is showing. That was with batteries removed.

So there's definitely a short across the 510. Though I'm not quite sure why the Kanthal tank worked at 1.8Ω. But definitely no TC vapes will work.

I just tried yet another Set Resistance with no atty, and it was back to 0.000Ω. Then tried an atty that reads 0.410Ω on my SX Mini M, and it read 0.378Ω on the IPV4 (a familiar figure) and showed the usual SHORT. Though oddly, it didn't show it when I vaped at 10J. Only when I vaped at 30J. That might be that at 10J it applied so little power it didn't heat the coil, and it's the changing resistance in the coil that's making it realise there's a short. Or it's the actual power that shows it.

Anyway, there's definitely a problem in the 510 - I just don't know how to access it to try and resolve it.

 

[Wraith504]

OK Kanthal did work, correctly showing 1.8Ω for an Aspire Triton 1.8 coil and then vaping OK

Put a different Titanium build on and Set Resistance read 0.393Ω which is a little low for that build, and then it showed the usual SHORT.

After posting my previous message I had given it another thorough cleaning, and that did change things a little bit - when I next did Set Resistance with no atomizer on, it showed 0.000Ω instead of 0.378Ω. But then it still showed SHORT on a TC fire, and when I just tried Set Resistance on no coil again this time it showed 0.669Ω

Using my micro ohm meter to measure the 510, connecting on the underside (ie probing the black and white wire solder points coming in to the 510) it fluctuates a bit, but shows around 0.6 - 0.7Ω, roughly the same as Set Resistance is showing. That was with batteries removed.

So there's definitely a short across the 510. Though I'm not quite sure why the Kanthal tank worked at 1.8Ω. But definitely no TC vapes will work.

I just tried yet another Set Resistance with no atty, and it was back to 0.000Ω. Then tried an atty that reads 0.410Ω on my SX Mini M, and it read 0.378Ω on the IPV4 (a familiar figure) and showed the usual SHORT. Though oddly, it didn't show it when I vaped at 10J. Only when I vaped at 30J. That might be that at 10J it applied so little power it didn't heat the coil, and it's the changing resistance in the coil that's making it realise there's a short. Or it's the actual power that shows it.

Anyway, there's definitely a problem in the 510 - I just don't know how to access it to try and resolve it.

Sounds odd that it would be the 510, if it reads kanthal correctly. Sounds either topper related or board related. The 510 is just the bridge between the topper and the board. The 510 has no clue if you have kanthal or titanium or a shoestring in it for that matter.

 

[TheBloke]

The difference with Kanthal is its resistance is much higher (at least it was in the coil I had available to quickly test), and more importantly it processes differently in power mode. As I said, it does vape on TC for a moment, but then it stops and declares SHORT. It's deciding to stop based on, I assume, fluctuating resistances. It presumably doesn't do that sort of check with in Power mode - or, if it does, the base resistance being so much higher is affecting the result.

I could make a 0.40Ω Kanthal coil I suppose to be sure, but I am almost certain it has to be the 510. The problems started immediately after half a tank of juice leaked directly down into the 510, I am reading a resistance across the 510 indicating there's a short there, and many times Set Resistance has displayed a resistance even when no atomizer is on. Also, the symptoms have been slightly altered by vigorous cleaning of the 510.

 

[Wraith504]

The difference with Kanthal is its resistance is much higher (at least it was in the coil I had available to quickly test), and more importantly it processes differently in power mode. As I said, it does vape on TC for a moment, but then it stops and declares SHORT. It's deciding to stop based on, I assume, fluctuating resistances. It presumably doesn't do that sort of check with in Power mode - or, if it does, the base resistance being so much higher is affecting the result.

I could make a 0.40Ω Kanthal coil I suppose to be sure, but I am almost certain it has to be the 510. The problems started immediately after half a tank of juice leaked directly down into the 510, I am reading a resistance across the 510 indicating there's a short there, and many times Set Resistance has displayed a resistance even when no atomizer is on. Also, the symptoms have been slightly altered by vigorous cleaning of the 510.

A short should give you a reading of 0 ohms. if your getting numbers then the 510 is not shorted. the only thing that functions differently in the TC mode is the board. the 510 is static. It is hardware/mechanical. it cant have a kanthal build that shows the correct resistance then another build of another material and not show the resistance. If you measure the 510 with a kanthal build and it shows 0 ohms then you have a short either in the build or the 510. but its impossible for the short to appear and disappear at the 510 solely on the material used for resistance.

 

[TheBloke]

Problem is fixed - I repeatedly and vigorously cleaned the 510 inside and out with a toothbrush, and I also sprayed alcohol onto the underside of an atomizer and screwed it on and off about 15 times in quick succession. Even that didn't fix it immediately, but after a few more atomizer screws/unscrews while doing further testing, it started working consistently. It's now picking up the right resistance with Set Resistance and vaping in TC mode without ever showing SHORT. I'm going to clean it a few more times just to be absolutely sure, and won't put it back into my 'vaping rotation' until tomorrow

But to address your points:

A short would not measure 0.00Ω, it would measure the resistance of the material causing the short. Even if you wired the positive on the board directly to the board ground, it would not be 0Ω - it would be the resistance of the length of wire between those two connections. Which true in that case would probably be so low as to display as 0.000Ω on the mod, but would not actually be (a short section of copper might be around 0.0001Ω)

In the case of this short, it was being caused by dirt or other material - not a solid connection. So an ohm reading of 0.3Ω - 0.7Ω as I variously saw is quite believable; it's comparable to a very poor/loose connection on a coil wire. There is a connection there, but the ohms vary and are much higher than a solid connection.

Perhaps you forgot that when when I used my micro ohm reader to measure the resistance between the positive and negative of the 510, I saw a resistance - and its value was in the region of a value I had recently seen with Set Resistance. That proved beyond doubt there was a short on the 510: a 510 without an atomizer should not give a resistance reading; it's an open circuit until the atomizer closes it. Now that it's working again, I am correctly seeing no resistance across the 510 when no atomizer is attached.

As for "the only thing that functions differently in TC mode is the board. the 510 is static." That's exactly right - and that's the point. The 510 is static but the board operates differently in the different mode. So the cause of the problem (dirt/crusted juice/something in the 510 causing a short) was always there - or rather, it was always intermittently there - but it was not causing a visible problem in Power mode, because the board operates differently in that mode than TC mode. Crucially, it does not have a locked Set Resistance value and thus does not report an error if the ohms suddenly differ from that locked value.

I believe the key to the issue was that, latterly at least (after I started posting and by the time I tested Power/Kanthal) it was only intermittently shorting. By that point I had already done a lot of cleaning, and after I had cleaned a lot there must have been only a small amount of dirt remaining such that it was sometimes shorting, sometimes not. It was shorting when I measured the resistance across the 510 with my ohm reader, and it was on the occasions when I got a Set Resistance reading with no atomizer attached. Then while testing, when I did Set Resistance I sometimes got the resistance of the short, sometimes I got the real resistance of the atomizer. Most importantly, during TC vaping the short occur sporadically, and whenever it occurred the board aborted the vape with SHORT. In Power mode with Kanthal, that was no problem - it carried on firing based on the initial resistance, not caring if there was a short for 0.01 seconds. In TC mode, it caused the problem because of the board's short detection: as soon as it picked up a very different resistance than it had locked, it aborted the vape with SHORT.

So yes, same 510, same underlying problem, but different behaviour by the board making the problem apparent in TC mode and not in Kanthal. Maybe if I had properly vaped for some minutes in Power with Kanthal, I would have noticed the vape dropping off intermittently as it suddenly got a much lower resistance reading and cut the volts. Though if it was only happening for a fraction of a second at a time by that point then it might have been very hard to spot.

Anyway it's all OK now. Thanks for your help.

 

[tehdarkaura]

Anyone have any issues with the buttons not working all of the sudden?
I have a black ipv4 where the up button doesn't work anymore -- down works fine... and now im stuck at 10 watts ((( anyone had this happen to them yet? I'm going to open it up and take a look to see if I have a similar button on hand ... (Fingers crossed)

 

[Wraith504]

Problem is fixed - I repeatedly and vigorously cleaned the 510 inside and out with a toothbrush, and I also sprayed alcohol onto the underside of an atomizer and screwed it on and off about 15 times in quick succession. Even that didn't fix it immediately, but after a few more atomizer screws/unscrews while doing further testing, it started working consistently. It's now picking up the right resistance with Set Resistance and vaping in TC mode without ever showing SHORT. I'm going to clean it a few more times just to be absolutely sure, and won't put it back into my 'vaping rotation' until tomorrow

But to address your points:

A short would not measure 0.00Ω, it would measure the resistance of the material causing the short. Even if you wired the positive on the board directly to the board ground, it would not be 0Ω - it would be the resistance of the length of wire between those two connections. Which true in that case would probably be so low as to display as 0.000Ω on the mod, but would not actually be (a short section of copper might be around 0.0001Ω)

In the case of this short, it was being caused by dirt or other material - not a solid connection. So an ohm reading of 0.3Ω - 0.7Ω as I variously saw is quite believable; it's comparable to a very poor/loose connection on a coil wire. There is a connection there, but the ohms vary and are much higher than a solid connection.

Perhaps you forgot that when when I used my micro ohm reader to measure the resistance between the positive and negative of the 510, I saw a resistance - and its value was in the region of a value I had recently seen with Set Resistance. That proved beyond doubt there was a short on the 510: a 510 without an atomizer should not give a resistance reading; it's an open circuit until the atomizer closes it. Now that it's working again, I am correctly seeing no resistance across the 510 when no atomizer is attached.

As for "the only thing that functions differently in TC mode is the board. the 510 is static." That's exactly right - and that's the point. The 510 is static but the board operates differently in the different mode. So the cause of the problem (dirt/crusted juice/something in the 510 causing a short) was always there - or rather, it was always intermittently there - but it was not causing a visible problem in Power mode, because the board operates differently in that mode than TC mode. Crucially, it does not have a locked Set Resistance value and thus does not report an error if the ohms suddenly differ from that locked value.

I believe the key to the issue was that, latterly at least (after I started posting and by the time I tested Power/Kanthal) it was only intermittently shorting. By that point I had already done a lot of cleaning, and after I had cleaned a lot there must have been only a small amount of dirt remaining such that it was sometimes shorting, sometimes not. It was shorting when I measured the resistance across the 510 with my ohm reader, and it was on the occasions when I got a Set Resistance reading with no atomizer attached. Then while testing, when I did Set Resistance I sometimes got the resistance of the short, sometimes I got the real resistance of the atomizer. Most importantly, during TC vaping the short occur sporadically, and whenever it occurred the board aborted the vape with SHORT. In Power mode with Kanthal, that was no problem - it carried on firing based on the initial resistance, not caring if there was a short for 0.01 seconds. In TC mode, it caused the problem because of the board's short detection: as soon as it picked up a very different resistance than it had locked, it aborted the vape with SHORT.

So yes, same 510, same underlying problem, but different behaviour by the board making the problem apparent in TC mode and not in Kanthal. Maybe if I had properly vaped for some minutes in Power with Kanthal, I would have noticed the vape dropping off intermittently as it suddenly got a much lower resistance reading and cut the volts. Though if it was only happening for a fraction of a second at a time by that point then it might have been very hard to spot.

Anyway it's all OK now. Thanks for your help.

High resistance caused by corrosion or any other type of factor is not called a short. You would have to rather state it as "high resistance." You generally have 3 problems in a circuit and those would be an "Open," "short to ground/short to power." and "high resistance."

 

[TheBloke]

High resistance caused by corrosion or any other type of factor is not called a short. You would have to rather state it as "high resistance." You generally have 3 problems in a circuit and those would be an "Open," "short to ground/short to power." and "high resistance."

The problem was not primarily high resistance - on only one out of the many problem occasions did I see a locked resistance reading higher than the coil itself.

The standard problem was too low resistance, caused by the dirt creating an alternative path. A shorter path than going through the atomizer and then the coil. A short.

And the ultimate problem was not any variations in resistance readings, but vaping being aborted by the mod with an error of SHORT. This was caused by the resistance suddenly fluctuating lower than the locked resistance. The sudden low resistance being caused by a short circuit facilitated by corrosion or other material. A short.

 

[Wraith504]

The problem was not primarily high resistance - on only one out of the many problem occasions did I see a locked resistance reading higher than the coil itself.

The standard problem was too low resistance, caused by the dirt creating an alternative path. A shorter path than going through the atomizer and then the coil. A short.

And the ultimate problem was not any variations in resistance readings, but vaping being aborted by the mod with an error of SHORT. This was caused by the resistance suddenly fluctuating lower than the locked resistance. The sudden low resistance being caused by a short circuit facilitated by corrosion or other material. A short.

I guess.... I usually see corrosion, dirt, etc. cause high resistance in a circuit. not a short. This dirt/corrosion typically does not create another path to ground. it creates high resistance in a circuit. But I guess there are other rules that defy the laws of physics out there. Glad you got it working regardless.

 

[TheBloke]

I guess.... I usually see corrosion, dirt, etc. cause high resistance in a circuit. not a short. This dirt/corrosion typically does not create another path to ground. it creates high resistance in a circuit. But I guess there are other rules that defy the laws of physics out there. Glad you got it working regardless.

I certainly agree that it normally just increases resistance, not conducting itself just worsening the connection between the parts that are meant to conduct. But based on the symptoms I had I don't see what other answer there could be. Set Resistance was almost always coming out with a lower figure than the real resistance of the coil, and I was able to measure a resistance across the 510 with no atomizer present. I don't know, maybe some of the dirt was tiny flakes of metal or something which were conducting. That doesn't correspond with what I thought was the cause - a massive juice leak - but perhaps the juice pushed metallic flakes already present into a position where they could short.

Perhaps some of the 510 pin had crumbled/flaked away from previous atomizer attachments - that's something I've seen before on other mods. Then they got stuck down there, and eventually pushed down further by the juice (or by my first attempts to clean out the juice.)

I don't really know - only that that's what I saw and that vigorous and repeated cleaning eventually resolved it. And thanks!

 

[LeahB]

Help me out here. Is the ipv4 just running that one battery down sooner or actually KILLING it. I have not had mine long but I love it and this the 2nd battery in a month that is beyond saving. Regardless, I'm pulling the board today. (Not really sure why it hasn't been pulled already)

 

[Wraith504]

Help me out here. Is the ipv4 just running that one battery down sooner or actually KILLING it. I have not had mine long but I love it and this the 2nd battery in a month that is beyond saving. Regardless, I'm pulling the board today. (Not really sure why it hasn't been pulled already)

If you have one of the earlier releases of the ipv4 it is likely the charge board, open it up and take it out if it is.

 

[TheBloke]

I also heard people saying to thoroughly clean the battery contacts as corrosion/dirt on one could cause inconsistent charging? Although that was just after the release, so they might have thought that was the problem when it was in fact the charger board.

 

[Wraith504]

I also heard people saying to thoroughly clean the battery contacts as corrosion/dirt on one could cause inconsistent charging? Although that was just after the release, so they might have thought that was the problem when it was in fact the charger board.

No clue, I yanked that board a long time ago. I charge external.

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah likewise. Though I only pulled my board very recently (when working on my 510 problem) and never experienced the bad charging problem. So I guess it's variable - maybe some of those boards were badly installed or something.

 

[LeahB]

Next question.. pulled the board. All but 1 after pictures that I I've seen, the board has 1 white, 1 red, 1 black. Mine, along with 1 other that I've seen, has 2 black wires, 1 red wire. Any significance?

 

[Wraith504]

Next question.. pulled the board. All but 1 after pictures that I I've seen, the board has 1 white, 1 red, 1 black. Mine, along with 1 other that I've seen, has 2 black wires, 1 red wire. Any significance?

can you post a pic

 

[LeahB]

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