Is Provape in danger of becoming like Blackberry?

[stevegmu]

All of those mods are boxes...

 

[stevegmu]

As a user of three innokin mods and several clearomisers I do feel that's a rather sweeping statement about their products, and the comment about China made crap re not made in Chinais ridiculous. You do know where iPhones are made, yes?

Most of the important parts of an iPhone are not made in China, so it is mostly assembled there. Apple also has very strict QC standards at the FoxConn assembly plants...

Most vape gear made in PRC is cheaply made disposable junk...

 

[DPLongo22]

All of those mods are boxes...

Aha! Tubes I do not know. Sorry, Steve.

 

[stevegmu]

I don't think there is another regulated tube mod made in the US.

 

[Rossum]

Well there WAS the Futura.

The Protovapor XPV's form-factor is closer to a square tube than a box.

And Zen's ZNA isn't exactly a box either.

 

[jjk1]

Here's a thought as to why the P3 has a 20 watt limit: To accommodate silly little 18350 batteries. There isn't an 18350 made that's safe at 30 watts. Even the best 18490s are marginal at 30 watts. And the Provari fan base would be upset if they HAD to use nothing but 18650s..

I think you might be right. Perhaps it can’t be made completely idiot proof at 30 watts. They are a big company in this industry but they are still a small operation. One or two exploded PVs could put them out of business. They didn’t limit it to 20 watts just to piss people off.

 

[chief63]

Here's a thought as to why the P3 has a 20 watt limit: To accommodate silly little 18350 batteries. There isn't an 18350 made that's safe at 30 watts. Even the best 18490s are marginal at 30 watts. And the Provari fan base would be upset if they HAD to use nothing but 18650s..

Probably correct. Keeping the form factor (which is important) probably drove the 20W. Surprised they have not branched out to include a Provari box version. I'd be interested.

 

[DPLongo22]

Probably correct. Keeping the form factor (which is important) probably drove the 20W. Surprised they have not branched out to include a Provari box version. I'd be interested.

Me TOO!!!

Love my box mods.

 

[Baditude]

Here's a thought as to why the P3 has a 20 watt limit: To accommodate silly little 18350 batteries. There isn't an 18350 made that's safe at 30 watts. Even the best 18490s are marginal at 30 watts. And the Provari fan base would be upset if they HAD to use nothing but 18650s..

Excellent point, Rossum. My most used mod is a Mini Provari/KFL+ in 18350 mode. I actually asked Provape tech engineers about using the AW 18350 IMR in the Mini Provari. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provape/524874-question-tech-engineers-provape.html

Referring to this thread Technical - Why High Drain Batteries? , the tech engineers state that the Provari needs a high drain battery which can supply up to 9 amps of power. The recommended AW 18650 IMR 2000 mAh battery has a 10 amp continuous discharge rate limit, so it passes this requirement. I've read conflicting information on the amp limit of the AW 18490 IMR 1100 mAh battery; some sources specify 16.8 amps, others say 8.4 amps - which is correct?

The recommended battery for the Mini Provari is the AW 18350 IMR 700 mAh battery. It only has a 6 amp continuous discharge rate. How is the Mini Provari able to achieve optimal performance with this limitation of amps? Am I missing something?

Hey Bad. Sorry for the delay, but it is finally here .... .and long

There are four (4) aspects of the battery and its use that need to be understood and factored in for this discussion. They are:

1) The maximum continuous discharge rate specification of the cell
2) The internal resistance of the cell
3) The application of the cell
4) The cell lithium ion chemistry

The cell ratings are based on a continuous discharge. The application is intermittent duty, by its nature not continuous, so a cell can be intermittently be pushed somewhat harder than its continuous rating in this type of application. The Provari when supplying its maximum output power (14.5 Watts) will need to draw a maximum average current from the cell of 5.2 amps. While it is true that the pulse current can be as high as 9 amps, the duration of these pulse currents is less than 10 microseconds and is not as important as the total average current drawn.

The 5.2 amps is when the cell is at end of charge and the output is adjusted to maximum power out, so it is an absolute worst case situation.

This situation is important because any manufacturer of a high quality device needs to account for the worst case conditions his product will be exposed to in its application.

When compared to the 6 amp continuous rating of the AW18350 cell it passes with some acceptable margin. The AW18490 and AW18650 have even better margins.

BUT just as important, is the safer lithium ion chemistry and very low internal resistance of the AW cells. Other lithium-ion chemistry and higher internal resistance cells will not perform to the level of the AW cells and therefore reduce the overall experience when used. The cost of these other cells when comparing their performance and safety are just not worth it.

There are cells that claim to have the same or better capacity as the AW cell BUT their internal resistance is inferior. If the cell has a higher internal resistance it will drop more voltage when current is taken out and as a result the ProVari will indicate it is at end of charge when it could have a significant amount of capacity remaining.

What good is this capacity if it cannot be utilized by the ProVari? It is of NO use, so why use it?

We will ONLY recommend cells that our engineering tests show will allow the ProVari to perform at its best.

 

[Impulso]

Excellent point, Rossum. My most used mod is a Mini Provari/KFL+ in 18350 mode. I actually asked Provape tech engineers about using the AW 18350 IMR in the Mini Provari. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provape/524874-question-tech-engineers-provape.html

This makes complete sense. Thanks for the post bad!


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[AnsonJames]

I don't think there is another regulated tube mod made in the US.

Buzz pro is still available?

 

[Impulso]

Well there WAS the Futura.

The Protovapor XPV's form-factor is closer to a square tube than a box.

And Zen's ZNA isn't exactly a box either.

A little OT but what happened to nextgen anyways? There was a huge storm created by them followed by badly mismanaged delivery of the products. Did that put them out of business?


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[DPLongo22]

Buzz pro is still available?

EXCELLENT point, Dirk. And yes, it is.

 

[Impulso]

Me TOO!!!

Love my box mods.

Me too. I like the tube mod but I look like I'm on permanent ...... carrying that around with my kfl+ on it in my front pocket. Wishful thinking on my part.....


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[Baditude]

Buzz pro is still available?

My vaping buddy has a Buzz Pro (loves it). Uses a KFL+ on it. He told me it would soon be discontinued. I don't know his sources, but since he follows the line, I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

He also uses a Provari (loves it too).

 

[AnsonJames]

I wanted a Buzz Pro so desperately when I started vaping, wasn't it the first VV device?

 

[Baditude]

I wanted a Buzz Pro so desperately when I started vaping, wasn't it the first VV device?

If not the first, one of the first few. The Provari wasn't far behind.

 

[Vlad1]

In terms of power? Sub ohmers seem to prefer $15 PRC mechs...
I would be very interested in finding out the average age of ProVari owners and how long they have vaped and whether or not they were previous smokers. My guess is older than the median vapers' age, has vaped longer and is a former smoker. If I owned a company which made mods, my target would be vapers in their 30's to 50's, who have vaped more than 6 months and who were former smokers. They have disposable income, have tried other devices and vape to keep off of cigarettes. The P3 would more than meet the needs of these vapers...

I fit all of your target market, 50, have disposable income, previously smoked for 30+ years, going on vaping 6 months now, have been through a half dozen devices so far. I'm not a cloud chaser or sub-ohm'r well maybe a little usually run coils from .9Ω - 1.4Ω. The reason I've been through so many devices so quickly was due to them not giving me the vape I wanted or needed. I don't like the 10 - 15 second drag some of my previous devices required or weak hit they provided. I want a quick drag good hit just like I would get with cigarettes. That being said the P3 would not fit my needs even with the jump start or whatever they call it as I find myself frequently running at 22.5 watts and occasionally up to 27 watts so right now 30 watt devices give me a little room.

@artbyshan
As for the Blackberry, Provape analogy I think you hit it dead on. Like you said with your Blackberry there will always be the loyal customers out there which Provape obviously has. But will they be able to persist and "stay afloat" with the rapidly emerging technologies, designs, features that are coming from overseas that do much much more and not at nearly the price? If not that service and warranty I always see folks throw out in Provari threads is for not.

 

[DavidOH]

Wouldn't you consider DNA regulated, or no? At least upwardly, but it's still regulation.

I think.

Yes it is.

 

[stevegmu]

It seems like your toppers may be the issue, rather than the power delivery system, but vaping is different for everyone. I quit using a Halo Triton starter kit and stayed quit. I ventured out of the Halo universe to try out different toppers and ProVari was the only logical choice for me. American made means a lot to me. I tried a lot of toppers since then. Love my Kayfun, but my everyday vapes are IBTanks. I get more than enough throat hit and flavor with 2.0 ohm coils at 3.7-4.2v- depending on the juice, to satisfy me.

My guess is those who require very high power are not the norm.

For most of the naysayers, though, it just seems to come down to cost. Not everyone can afford or justify the expense of Allen Edmonds shoes, either, but myself and enough people do keep the company in business...