Is the nic bar becoming lower?

[Sugar_and_Spice]

My vape is like an easy full inhale of breath, but rich and smooth, 3 second drag fills me up enough, and it's not like I'm hitting it as hard as I possibly could with my eyes buggin out, the airflow keeps it nice and cool. I can exhale slow, blow a ring or two and dream of jellyfish.
The heart of it is, I vape for the pleasure of vaping and not nic consumption, so at 3mg I can vape as much as I want without overdoing it, which I have been prone to do in the past.

This ^^^^^ is also how I vape. I like the variety of flavor so to vape as much as I want without over doing it, I lowered my mtl nic strength from 12mg to 6mg. I did try 3mg but was vaping non stop, so back up it went. I vape like I smoked. I never took deep breaths into my lungs, shallow ones sure, but I always inhaled even on mtl. To me, my change to a restricted type of dl is(was) to get more air without having to draw too hard, as with mtl. With mtl I never felt like I got enough with one draw so was constantly vaping. For me, my style has not changed I just don't have to work as hard to get a good hit.

my 2 pennies.

 

[Dieseler]

Eight years ago was vaping cig look a like at 18mg inhaling same fashion as with 2pk a day habit for 35 years prior yes not young anymore .
Over the last 8 years have slowly went down to 12mg now down to 6 mg still inhaling like when i smoked . Do i ever crave a cig - nope.
Also make own e-liquid for some years now only vape 1 type of flavor so simple to make and satisfying.
We are all different . : )

 

[evan le'garde]

Like i said before, Sub Ohm Tanks are in abundance now. It's what manufacturers are making and what vendors are selling. I figure if manufacturers start making more MTL atomizers than DTL atomizers then we'd see vapers using nigh nicotine juices again. So, as it is, and as vapdivrr pointed out, the nic bar has been lowered.

By the industry !.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Like i said before, Sub Ohm Tanks are in abundance now. It's what manufacturers are making and what vendors are selling. I figure if manufacturers start making more MTL atomizers than DTL atomizers then we'd see vapers using nigh nicotine juices again. So, as it is, and as vapdivrr pointed out, the nic bar has been lowered.

By the industry !.

I agree but with vapers who have vaped mtl and higher nic and then switching to dl you almost have to lower the nic. I know not all do, but for me when trying dl using my 12mg, I was dizzy immediately and nic sick in a couple of draws. So you are almost forced to IF you want to maintain a pleasant experience and not feel sick.



eta and no, going to lower nic with dl I never had any desire to smoke a cigarette.

 

[Rossum]

Give me a red x on this one, you're entitled to your opinion

 

[vapdivrr]

Frankly I think you're going a little far on the scare tactics.

Give me a red x on this one, you're entitled to your opinion

I think I should of said, or my real opinion is this.., firstly , my response is to a very small percentage of people that successfully quit using mtl and by successful, I mean totally happy with it and no intention of going back to smoking (this was the post I responded to) for those people , do they weigh the fact that they most likely will be doubling , tripleing , or even more their juice consumption? I don't really think many do, as they probably just think juice consumption is the same heath wise no matter the volume. Honestly I'm not trying to scare anyone, as I'm glad everyone is at least vaping and definitely not smoking.

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[uthinkofsomething]

I think I should of said, or my real opinion is this.., firstly , my response is to a very small percentage of people that successfully quit using mtl and by successful, I mean totally happy with it and no intention of going back to smoking (this was the post I responded to) for those people , do they weigh the fact that they most likely will be doubling , tripleing , or even more their juice consumption? I don't really think many do, as they probably just think juice consumption is the same heath wise no matter the volume. Honestly I'm not trying to scare anyone, as I'm glad everyone is at least vaping and definitely not smoking.

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Yeah, I guess I'm one of those people. I won't say I was totally happy with mtl but I liked it more than smoking pretty quickly. After I got into DL I wasn't concerned about how much juice I was using beyond the cost, and I found ways to minimize that. I'm still kind of minimally concerned with the health aspect of it, telling myself I know it's better than smoking, I know I feel better and breath better than I did. It's just what I seemed to naturally gravitate to.

 

[vapdivrr]

With mtl I never felt like I got enough with one draw so was constantly vaping.
my 2 pennies.

I can see this.....I use to really vape mtl, I mean tight tight, as that was all there was. I think most of the old rebuildable genny tanks I vaped were like maybe .5 to .8 mm af? Then when I switched to the original kayfun, they were tight as well. I then slowly started to drill out af's over time, but now one can choose specific rta's that fit desired af. My tanks range from 1.2mm to 2mm af and maybe twice a day I might even dtl a hit , but have been able to tweak my builds over the years to get that one hit to satisfy. With my sub ohm .7 ohm builds and about 23 watts, all I need is one hit. The coil lights fast and with a 2 second draw it totally fills my lungs with a warm , hard TH that is very good....I can see what you are saying, as some of my older tanks were definitely tighter and the coil just took to much time to evaporate the juice properly in my preferred vape draw time...that's the cool thing though, so many different options we have

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[Sugar_and_Spice]

I can see this.....I use to really vape mtl, I mean tight tight, as that was all there was. I think most of the old rebuildable genny tanks I vaped were like maybe .5 to .8 mm af? Then when I switched to the original kayfun, they were tight as well. I then slowly started to drill out af's over time, but now one can choose specific rta's that fit desired af. My tanks range from 1.2mm to 2mm af and maybe twice a day I might even dtl a hit , but have been able to tweak my builds over the years to get that one hit to satisfy. With my sub ohm .7 ohm builds and about 23 watts, all I need is one hit. The coil lights fast and with a 2 second draw it totally fills my lungs with a warm , hard TH that is very good....I can see what you are saying, as some of my older tanks were definitely tighter and the coil just took to much time to evaporate the juice properly in my preferred vape draw time...that's the cool thing though, so many different options we have

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Back when I and possibly we started vaping, you are right in that we had no choice but to MTL. Its good that you are handy with tools, me not so much. lol. As improvements to gear started coming I starting buying I finally found what I liked and have stuck with it. I guess as I said in my last post for definitions sake, I am a restricted dl vaper. Like it airy but don't need so much clouds as to fill a room. I do like to see the vapor tho bc it makes me feel like I am smoking. MTL I hardly got any vapor at all. I did not jump into this form of vaping when it first came out. I read and researched and when I got the nerve to learn how to rebuild I started with Kanger's Subtank mini rba's then moved onto rta's. It has been a process and I was fully aware that the amount of ejuice comsumption would rise, probably by a lot and it has. But I DIY so the costs for me are kept low compared to having to buy commercially. Heck, I started making my own bc when I started vaping there was no ejuice companies to buy from except maybe juice from China. I tried 1 bottle and down the drain it went as it made my mouth numb. That's the moment I started teaching myself how to make ejuice.
I know everyones' story is different as we started at different times and different options were available. But there are many here at ECF who started with MTL and are still totally happy with it. They have no interest in dl at all. And yes, options are good to have....at last....

 

[DaveP]

I mtl 6mg juice this week. About 4ml a day. I dont take deep to lung draw, just a light draw in and partial lung and expel.
By partial lung I mean I inhale deep enough so I can expel through the nose.
Clouds arent wispy, theyre thick enough but not as much volume as when I DL using the NRG, which isnt often.
Im dont feel like Im relating to a lot of the posts in this thread

Most of the time I do as you are doing. I inhale far enough into the throat to be able to exhale through the nose. I inhale infrequently all the way into the lungs, but my better judgement tells me that I can absorb enough nic to satisfy by shallow inhales and an exhale through the nose without involving the lungs so much. At 10W, 70pg juice can make clouds that are equal to or greater than those of a full flavor cigarette, so I'm happy with that.

 

[TraderX]

Being a simple minded man, I just allow my taste buds to lead me in the right direction. I don't care if it is MTL style or sub ohm to be honest. I prefer my tobacco vapes MTL style at 12-15 watts slight above sub ohm levels. This is what tastes best to me, and it is my everyday workhorse vape to keep me off cigs.

I have tried higher watts and sub-ohming tobacco, but it tastes bad to me in every tank and every RDA that I have tried.

The sweet treats like custards, cakes, cookies, fruits and so many more, always test better to me personally at higher watts and sub ohm levels in a RDA. I have tried the sweet treats at low wattage MTL style, and the flavor is acceptable, but not even close to sub ohm flavor.

I broke a multi decade Camel habit with 24mg nicotine on my first attempt, it was astoundingly easy. I thank God and 24mg nicotine for that easy transition. I have worked my way down to 16mg nicotine since 2015.

So here I sit in my chair, MTL low watt puffing on my tobacco vape, and sometimes reaching for that higher watt sub ohm sweet treat.

What confuses me is that my nicotine level remains always constant at 16mg, MTL or sub ohm, tank or RDA. I have never felt sick or light headed like some. Maybe decades of Camels hardened me?

As I said, I am a simple minded sort.

 

[DaveP]

If all vaping was MTL I would still be smoking cigarettes.

Teenage vaping is mostly a problem because of Juul devices. Juul devices are MTL.

Probably so, but when I visit the local vape shop, everyone except me seems to be blowing DTL clouds. The place is fog city at peak times. The owner had to install a large exhaust fan, per city license and fire inspectors.

 

[Foggy Road]

Wow! This thread comes as a real surprise to me.

How many watts do you vape at? (2018)

I feel soooooo much less alone after reading it.

 

[stols001]

There are tons of "nic salt capable" (I hate that phrase, BTW) pods being released and people are buying them. So, it's arguable that NOT all vapers are going to sub0hm and lower nic (although to be fair, plenty of pods also have sub0hm coils) in fact many are bumping UP their nic or starting high.

I don't count and excel all tanks and gear that comes out so I couldn't realty get all precise about it other than to say I have lots of MTL tanks, but I still could certainly get a JILLION more new ones (especially rebuildables) even if they were not the latest and greatest thing on the market, etc.

I will also note that I feel zero comfort level in speculating whether DL or MTL is better or healthier in some way. There is certainly the principle "less is sometimes better" but at this point in time, it's truthfully impossible to say with ANY certainty if one is more harmful than another, so I am not EVEN going to try. I think everyone should vape how they want to and how they are comfortable doing so.

My vaping style has changed a BIT, but mainly with airflow. I have tended to want more air and an airier draw in my tank as I have progressed. However, most of my vapes well the lowest I have going ATM is a 0.8 coil. But, I'm not sure whether I'm inhaling more vapor, or just airier vapor.

I WISH my vape were wispy little trails of insignificance, stealth vaping would be easier. But with PEG400 and my reasonably high VG ratio, such is not the case. It's sort of a meaty vape for MTL.

I also inhale shallowly into my lungs, smoke is somehow more substantial feeling than vape though, so I'm not entirely sure. But I seem to get enough nic, and I still prefer MTL.

Anna

 

[vapdivrr]

I will also note that I feel zero comfort level in speculating whether DL or MTL is better or healthier in some way. There is certainly the principle "less is sometimes better" but at this point in time, it's truthfully impossible to say with ANY certainty if one is more harmful than another, so I am not EVEN going to try. I think everyone should vape how they want to and how they are comfortable doing so.



Anna

I definitely believe everyone should vape how they want, as I honestly believe it's impossible that however you vape can ever be worse then smoking, not even close. I'm just curious to why we never hear contemplations on this exact potential dilemma. I just don't people think about the differences this way. I do think they think the other way however, in that now they are consuming less nic , and perhaps they are doing a good thing, but about juice consumption , no. As in cigarettes, nic has always been gotten the bad rap and it carries over to vaping. I just feel if one contemplates a switch and thinks about the nic lowering as a goid thingn they should also think about their juice consumption, which is equally as important

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[Cool_Breeze]

As with much of the rest of vaping, there's not a lot of agreeable science behind styles of vaping. We have 'belief' and 'feelings,' but they don't amount to much other than unsubstantiated opinion. There is no consensus.

Footnote: The British "95%" safer than smoking was, as best I can tell not based on rigorous science, but more likely it may have been some number speculated by some panel at a conference. My suggested context may be a little off. If you can add more light to the 95% matter, please do.

 

[Rossum]

The British "95%" safer than smoking was, as best I can tell not based on rigorous science, but more likely it may have been some number speculated by some panel at a conference. My suggested context may be a little off. If you can add more light to the 95% matter, please do.

I believe the Brits' statement was: At least 95%.. My understanding is this number is imputed based on the known composition of smoke and vapor.

I doubt anyone will be able to make a truly definitive, empirical statement comparing the risks of smoking and vaping until there's a population of never-smokers who've vaped for many decades, because that's how long it takes for the risks associated with smoking to become apparent.

Personally, I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm entirely satisfied with how much better I feel since I switched from smoking to vaping.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I trust my general feeling of well being when walking up steps or my endurance when working out side. And, I recall that the word "anecdotal" is Latin for "Since I can't answer your claims I use a big word".

I believe the Brits' statement was: At least 95%.. My understanding is this number is imputed based on the known composition of smoke and vapor.

I doubt anyone will be able to make a truly definitive, empirical statement comparing the risks of smoking and vaping until there's a population of never-smokers who've vaped for many decades, because that's how long it takes for the risks associated with smoking to become apparent.

Personally, I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm entirely satisfied with how much better I feel since I switched from smoking to vaping.

 

[smoked25years]

I'm just curious to why we never hear contemplations on this exact potential dilemma.

When I first joined, that was one of my early questions. It didn't go over well. Some responded by laughing and others responded with hostility. It would be nice to have an objective discussion about it. The topic seems to be taboo. The topic of quitting vaping seems equally taboo. I see a lot of encouragement to keep vaping but none to stop. When I first joined the forum, I had thought of it more like alcoholics anonymous for smokers. I viewed vaping the same as nicorette gum--a smoking cessation aid.

 

[Foggy Road]

I've never even considered quitting vaping. I'm stepping out in a moment to complete a trade for 3 litres of nic.

But would certainly not berate someone who intends to. To each their own. Enjoy your freedom when you get there.