It's interesting that some people honestly think "high end" mod prices are justifiable.

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Screamin Eagle

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All this talk about clones and originals. Isn't something that is made after the prototype a reproduction? In effect a clone?

And we aren't talking about someone who invents a new technology in vaping. We are (or at least I am) talking about someone who takes existing technology (or technological ideas) (because let's face the PWM has already been done 100s of times), or reverse engineers someone elses tube (probably a chinese one), puts their own little spin on it (makes it out of a solid billet or polishes it), feeds this info into a computer and start punching out "origionals" at a rate of 100+ a day with his/her name on it and calls it an "original".

The tech has already been out there. This isn't a NEW thing.

To the the guy who is making them one at a time. Yes, he should charge more. Everyone he makes is crafted, and unique, and would probably be worthy of being called art, and worth collecting. such as some of these wood mods I've seen.

But I'm talking about the the guy who sees what the craftsmen is getting for his items, replacates something similar via a mechine, and reproduces them 100 at a time (at a cost savings vs. the craftsmen), then charges as much as the craftsmen to people who perceive these items to be just as good as hand made when they do the same thing as a much cheeper (yet very reliable) "production" modle from someone else. This is nothing more then profiteering.

But as I've said many many times before, this is all up to indavidual tastes, and expectations. Everyone values different things in different ways. This is just MY opinion. If a you want to pay $1000 for something that does the same job as something that costs $50 because it's shinny and might last a little longer then that is your business. If I don't find the value in it, that's MY business.

But please don't preach to me how your $200 flashlight is better then my $50 flashlight when they do the same thing, using many of the same parts. In the end they both just light the way.
 

dr g

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People need to understand that China's prices in no way reflect a realistic cost of doing business in the west. Heck it's questionable if their prices reflect the realistic cost of doing business in the east.

China manufacturing distorts markets.

EDIT: Also, what a machinist understands about the value of materials and his labor is not the total cost of bringing a product to market.
 
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EvilZoe

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As long as the original manufacturers are putting out quality, reliable product that consistently performs as it should, there will be people willing to pay the premium prices to get the brands they know they can trust.

If others wish to take a risk with clones, that is their prerogative and we shouldn't be lecturing each other either way. It's just sort of ugly and pointless.

Like Apple and PC fanboy pissing contests.
 

sawlight

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Nice personal attack buddy. I've machined plenty of parts, many more intricate than a tube with a button, but unfortunately I don't have access to any machines currently.

Let me ask, where do you think the "magic" is in making a mechanical mod? I can assure you that the materials are not $200+ per mod... Again, it is literally a metal tube with contacts and a button.

Umm, there wasn't anything personal about it, and get a few more posts in before we are on "buddy" level, OK?

No, the tube material isn't $200, but my time is! Set up the lathe, turn it, bore it, thread it. Set up the mill and machine any flats on the sides or holes on the round side that the lathe can't do.

A little background, I've run 3-5 axis, 1-6 spindle mills, I've run 2-12 axis lathes, and had to program or edit programs for all the above. I've built more airplane parts and cut more Titanium than most people will ever see in their entire life! I've done tooling, I've done prototyping, I've built custom automated machines and plastic injection and blow molds. I got burnt out after being pigeon hold as a 5ax operator that could cut Titanium, not a terrible lot that have experience in both.

My point was, if you don't consider your time worth anything, which I sure do, then you can make it for material cost. But I don't know many willing to do this for nothing! I figure a couple days, easy, to set this all up and make a prototype.
 

SissySpike

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Also, if there was a literal 1:1 clone of a "high end" mod, EXACT in every detail, one for $50 and one for $200, would you still buy the "real" one?

Yes I would buy the original over a exact copy. If I wanted that mod. I have no respect for someone who copys someone elses work and sells their copy on the others reputation.

I agree with the people who say if you dont like the price dont buy it if you think cheaper is better good for you. High end mods are 100% excessive. I dont think anybody thinks any different. Having some nice things if you can afford them is part of why some of us work so hard for our money.

In the end, when you look back, you're going to find you regret what you didn't buy. Not what you did..
Not me ;-)
 
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mgjohn

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How about trying this on.

I have a cousin who is a PHD Physcist and kind of an old hippie. He has built hi-end audio speakers for years. I'm talking $20-25k per pair.

He has scrapped by, pair by pair to exclusive buyers to get to the next upgraded model which is always on his mind.

We have tried to convince him to sub out the production and be more marketable and less costly.

He will have none of it. We finally figured out he does this mostly for his own challenge. The fact that people pay him is only his means to maintain his research.

The point of this is to possibly to explain that there are a likely good number of the high end developers/builders/modders that do this, not to make much money, but for the satisfaction they get from building the "best, finest, efficient, safest, sexiest" mod.

And, they probably don't even care if their products are cloned, in fact probably find it flattering and if they are like my cousin they already are working on one that will exceed what China is cloning anyway.

my $.02
 

_sidekick_

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I understand that time is money and that these manufacturers are in business to make money... I also couldn't care less if someone else wants to spend their money on overpriced mods.

Some of these prices are just a little ridiculous. I have seen mechanical mods in the $300+ range. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is justifiable. Again, atomizers are a whole different ball game, but mechanical mods are nothing special. In the end, it doesn't really matter, because there will still be over priced mods, average priced mods, and lower priced mods. I personally will not spend $200 for that potential 1% difference in performance.
 
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mgjohn

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How about trying this on.

I have a cousin who is a PHD Physcist and kind of an old hippie. He has built hi-end audio speakers for years. I'm talking $20-25k per pair.

He has scrapped by, pair by pair to exclusive buyers to get to the next upgraded model which is always on his mind.

We have tried to convince him to sub out the production and be more marketable and less costly.

He will have none of it. We finally figured out he does this mostly for his own challenge. The fact that people pay him is only his means to maintain his research.

The point of this is to possibly to explain that there are a likely good number of the high end developers/builders/modders that do this, not to make much money, but for the satisfaction they get from building the "best, finest, efficient, safest, sexiest" mod.

And, they probably don't even care if their products are cloned, in fact probably find it flattering and if they are like my cousin they already are working on one that will exceed what China is cloning anyway.

my $.02
 

minimalsaint

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And, they probably don't even care if their products are cloned, in fact probably find it flattering and if they are like my cousin they already are working on one that will exceed what China is cloning anyway.

That is sort of the beauty of these whole arguments. Nobody seems to really know how they feel about it. I don't recall a famous modder ever being quoted as stating that they are on either side of the fence when it comes to this debate. It is all speculation from where I stand.
 

JMarca

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Extremely unpopular opinion, and I don't apologize for it...

High end is relative.

For example are high end VV/VW mods worth it to me? Absolutely!
Compare a Provari to it's "clone" the Zmax - they are night and day different. However when it comes to mechanicals which really are nothing more than a tube and a switch not so much, again my opinion.

I really do think it's funny that some "high end" tube mods cost more than a Provari and yet are of much less quality in both materials and engineering. Come on you can sit there till you are blue in the face and tell someone it's hard to make a tube and my time is worth it. End of the day if a mech costs 200 to make why isn't a Provari going for 600 each? They sure should, compared to one another.

Then we have availability...

If you think mod makers aren't actually limiting the stock on purpose to keep the resell value up and not giving a crap if anyone else can get their hands on one you're sadly mistaken. If Pro Vape got an order of 1000 units tonight they'd pump them out no problem. Probably be out of stock for a week or two, but the week after everyone would be able to buy it again.

There is a huge difference between making your profit and making things available for all, and then there is being greedy and not giving a hoot. Do I support clones? In some instances yes in some no. Just because something is marked up as "high end" doesn't actually mean it is.

Make me a clone of the Provari that hits exactly the same... wait they've tried failed everytime.
Make me a clone of a "high end" mech that hits exactly the same... I'm not going to call out names but at least 5 mods out there have exact piece for piece copies that hit exactly the same for 20-30 bucks a pop.
 
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sawlight

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I understand that time is money and that these manufacturers are in business to make money... I also couldn't care less if someone else wants to spend their money on overpriced mods.

Some of these prices are just a little ridiculous. I have seen mechanical mods in the $300+ range. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is justifiable. Again, atomizers are a whole different ball game, but mechanical mods are nothing special. In the end, it doesn't really matter, because there will still be over priced mods, average priced mods, and lower priced mods. I personally will not spend $200 for that potential 1% difference in performance.

I can't, and wont argue that point! You and I are on the same page there! BUT, on the flip side of the coin, if people are willing to pay it, then the market is there whether we like it or not! I've got a Nemesis clone on the way, as much as I'd love to have the original, I honestly cannot justify it! I did a lot to my body, that my wife and Dr's are still unhappy with me about, to come up with the money to buy my Provari, I can't do that again!
I'm also sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, that wasn't my intent! I've done a lot of this myself, and spending a day or two at the shop making something that someone considers "simple" then have them balk when you ask for $50-75 for your time!
 

dr g

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If you think mod makers aren't actually limiting the stock on purpose to keep the resell value up and not giving a crap if anyone else can get their hands on one you're sadly mistaken. If Pro Vape got an order of 1000 units tonight they'd pump them out no problem. Probably be out of stock for a week or two, but the week after everyone would be able to buy it again.

The rest of your post isn't so bad but this is ridiculous.
 
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