It's these kind of people that are going to ruin it for all of us...

[zoiDman]

I thought we were discussing the bar scenario, did the drunk cloud chasers go to the flower shop next?


Anywhoo...
Physically?
Okay we don't assault other citizens.
That's illegal, and gets ya a civil court date.

We ask them to stop or to leave.
99% will stop if asked politely.
They will appreciate your candor, and continue to do business at your bar..err flower shop?

The rare, rare few who get require physical contact, get to deal with local law enforcement, who will effect their leaving, guaranteed.

I think if you give Most Business owners the Choice between a Voluntary Store Policy where you might have to Physically Remove a Customer vs. a Statewide Ban of e-Cigarettes where Smoking is Not Allowed, that they will Back the Ban.

Hate to see it. But it Is what it Is.

 

[raqball]

Attacking the OP? Really? Who attacked the OP? You're a pot stirrer.

If I remember correctly, the only person complaining about a vaper in the OP's story, was the OP.

None of the other shoppers complained, apparently, only the OP to her mother. The OP was even offended that this person had their PV, carrying it out in the open. Really? Just because a vaper open carries their PV we are to be offended? The nerve!

 

[Toastyroadie]

So you quoted my post, where is the attack? Me thinks you don't know what an attack is? Yeah, so tell me, what part of my post constitutes an attack?

 

[zoiDman]

Read the OP, and my post. I said apparently.

Yeah... I know that my Sister is a Big Letter Writer.

If she saw something like what the OP saw, She would Never confront the Vaper. But I can Guarantee that when She got home, that She would Crack Out a Scathing Letter to the Stores Corporate Office.

As well as City Council Members. Small Business Association, FDA, CDC, PTA and just about anyone Else she thought would Listen.

LOL

 

[Toastyroadie]

Yeah... I know that my Sister is a Big Letter Writer.

If she saw something like what the OP saw, She would Never confront the Vaper. But I can Guarantee that when She got home, that She would Crack Out a Scathing Letter to the Stores Corporate Office.

As well as City Council Members. Small Business Association, FDA, CDC, PTA and just about anyone Else she thought would Listen.

LOL

Well, I guarantee my sister wouldn't act like your sister, if anything, if she liked the smell, she would ask them what joose they were using so she could tell me about it.

I've talked to my sister about it and even though she doesn't vape, she Is now very supportive of my choice. She did have a negative reaction, initially, but that changed when I shared some information on the medicinal use of nicotine, PG and VG.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, I guarantee my sister wouldn't act like your sister, if anything, if she liked the smell, she would ask them what joose they were using so she could tell me about it.

I've talked to my sister about it and even though she doesn't vape, she Is now very supportive of my choice. She did have a negative reaction, initially, but that changed when I shared some information on the medicinal use of nicotine, PG and VG.

I think what you will find is there would be a Large Range of Reactions with People to what the OP Saw.

An I think that about the Only People who would talk to the Store Manager or Write a Letter to their Corporate Office are those who Didn't like it.

And also think that it doesn't take too many Complaints for a Store to Dis-Allow Vaping on their Property for the 3 or 4 Percent of their Customers who Do Want to.

 

[YoursTruli]

There are definitely two schools of thought with little to no middle ground when it comes to this. Those that believe when it comes to vaping their personal vape anywhere actions have nothing to do with unfavorable public perception, store/restaurant/public spaces restrictions/bans and unfavorable local legislature ...And those that feel we as vapors will be restricted/banned and locally legislated (in some cases more severely then smoking restrictions/bans) because of the first group well before all of the the states or federal ever get the chance to tax and regulate the living heck out of us.

I feel the more unfavorable vaping becomes at a local level the greater the impact at the state level and on to the federal level, even if it does not travel upstream if you are regulated/banned to death in your local community it makes it all the more difficult for vapers to keep vaping period.

 

[beckdg]

There are definitely two schools of thought with little to no middle ground when it comes to this. Those that believe when it comes to vaping their personal vape anywhere actions have nothing to do with unfavorable public perception, store/restaurant/public spaces restrictions/bans and unfavorable local legislature ...And those that feel we as vapors will be restricted/banned and locally legislated (in some cases more severely then smoking restrictions/bans) because of the first group well before all of the the states or federal ever get the chance to tax and regulate the living heck out of us.

i disagree immensely. i believe it is the discussion that divides us as black and white. i believe that we're all adults here and most of us have a set of morals embedded by our parents that demand we have some sort of courtesy towards others. in that respect i believe that many of the "never vape in public" crowd often has a moral dilemma in admitting what they actually do and the "vape everywhere" crowd feels that after what we do do just for common courtesy is enough and we don't need to be told what to do by others... because we're adults and already been banished to the smoking section prior to our newfound freedom.

i truly believe we all have much more in common on this subject than an open forum discussion often allows us to reveal when we're firmly seated at one side of the argument and pitted against the other.

after all... once a person is calling names and claiming another is too stupid to see the obvious, it's hard to retract from the perception one has given the audience.

(not hard rules, as each poster will relate in different ways with different circumstances and different specifics, but in a general sense, this is what it seems to me.)

 

[USMCotaku]

Don't know about You.

But if I don't want people using an e-Cigarette in my Store, or my Chain of Stores, instead of having my Employees Physically Remove those who vape, I would just post a Sign saying "No Vaping Allowed".

And if that didn't work, I would Push for Indoor Bans.

BTW - Removing people from a Bar is One Thing. But how does Physically Removing Customers work for Sally's Flower Shop? When the Only Employee is Sally.

So you would make the leap from posting no vaping in your establishment to universal indoor bans? Logical.
How about all those middle steps being skipped over? Like removing the offenders, banning them etc....

 

[Jman8]

Not even close.
Exercising rights is the only way to keep them.

However courteous vaping will only help our cause.

Upcoming bans have nothing to do with vapers or health or public perception.
It's all about states losing monies from BIg Tobacco settlements.
They cant afford for us to stop buying ciggies, they have spent the funds before they received them.

Why do you think they push such blatant propaganda programs?

I thought I'd make it all the way to page 27-ish before I was compelled to respond, but couldn't.

I don't think it is all about states losing money. But I do think it is around 75% the reason. I then think what OP in this thread is saying is around 10% of reason why indoor vaping may be banned everywhere. And then 15% is because of what ANTZ does with local jurisdictions, and influences local businesses to get on board with what the 75% reason (which stems from ANTZ) is saying.

So, for those keeping score, 90% of the reason public vaping will likely be banned in most places (includes some outdoors locations) is due to ANTZ rhetoric, and 10% is due to the unruly vaper who some seem to think its true of anyone that vapes indoors. But reality is, once full laws are passed, these people will still likely be inconsiderate folks amongst us, and it'll show. It's not like non-smoking, non-vaping people don't have 10% of them who are rude/obnoxious people when in public.

 

[YoursTruli]

As of April 2, 2015
State Laws Restricting E-cigarette Use in 100% Smokefree Venues: 3
State Laws Restricting E-cigarette Use in Other Venues:8
Local Laws Restricting E-cigarette Use in 100% Smokefree Venue:354
In addition 186 local laws restrict E-cigarette Use in Other Venues

of course this does not take into account restrictions/bans by privately held establishments.

 

[caramel]

Yeah... I know that my Sister is a Big Letter Writer.

If she saw something like what the OP saw, She would Never confront the Vaper. But I can Guarantee that when She got home, that She would Crack Out a Scathing Letter to the Stores Corporate Office.

As well as City Council Members. Small Business Association, FDA, CDC, PTA and just about anyone Else she thought would Listen.

LOL

Would she also open a thread on ECF?

 

[zoiDman]

So you would make the leap from posting no vaping in your establishment to universal indoor bans? Logical.
How about all those middle steps being skipped over? Like removing the offenders, banning them etc....

You would be Surprised how Intolerant business owners are when it comes to things that May Reduce their Profits.

Me. I might try a Half-Step. Because I am a Vaper. But I believe that 95% of Business Owners Wouldn't.

 

[zoiDman]

Would she also open a thread on ECF?

Nah... She would be on some ANTZ forum Flaming Vapors for Blowing Vape on Her Gluton Free Rice Krispies.

 

[Jman8]

For those who say they can vape wherever and whenever they want, I have a question... Is it so difficult to delay your own personal gratification that you have to impose what you want on everyone around you regardless of what they want?

I am a person who says vape everywhere with respect.

The respect part, for me, does not equate to 'whenever I want.' But the arguments put forth on these type of threads, and what business owner types have communicated have done zero to have me budge from this, reasonable, position.

It is not difficult, for me, to delay personal gratification. Also wasn't difficult for me to go cold turkey from smoking. But also am not 'having to impose what I want on everyone around me,' when I vape in public. I rarely do that, and when I do, it is in bar like setting where I've been given explicit permission to vape. Had I not, then the part of vaping in that bar in the open, would probably not meet with my own standards of respect. But I would still vape in a bar where the policy was 'no' as there are places, even in a crowded bar, where you can vape and it is still respectful. Though admittedly, it is around 10 times easier to vape in a hospital than in a crowded bar, at least when respect is on the table.

This idea of vape only where you smoke is too easy to poke holes in. I've done it before, always happy to do it again. I would hope those who are anti-vaping in public have more than that to their game, or they would be easy to overcome, both in argument and in shared reality.

This idea of - just because you can, doesn't mean you should, is ANTZ rhetoric. Just because you can vape in your house, doesn't mean you should. How's that grab you? Or better yet, just because you can vape, doesn't mean you should. And better still, just because I can vape in public with respect, does mean I should. Let's hear the counter argument to that.

The fact that so many vapers have bought into ANTZ rhetoric, and that public bans seem inevitable, then it is even more reason why if you can now, why wouldn't you? And if you can now, why wouldn't you do it with respect, in the off chance that it might not happen anytime real soon, though the way things are going, it could rather easily be this year in your neck of the woods. So, knowing that, why wouldn't you vape right now in public while it is still permissible?

 

[caramel]

Nah... She would be on some ANTZ forum Flaming Vapors for Blowing Vape on Her Gluton Free Rice Krispies.

Oh I see, and then said ANTZ will decide such deeds should not be left unpunished, and will organize a raid here?

 

[zoiDman]

Oh I see, and then said ANTZ will decide such deeds should not be left unpunished, and will organize a raid here?

Oh Ya... The ANTZ are in Complete Control.

 

[Jman8]

At any rate, keep on doing as you please and the rest of us will continue to pay the price for it..

I can only read this type of comment 5 times in a thread before I'm compelled to respond with:

if you are not vaping in public, by choice, and others are, by choice, then what is the price you are paying?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I'm just looking for something that both "sides" can agree on.

We like to vape?

 

[freeall]

Ants, schmantz. I got ants on my driveway.