Johnson Creek Vea - Under represented here?

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MyKosmo

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This post should embarrass you. Bet it won't.

Open mind? And you've used this Vea how much? You've held one in your hands? You've vaped what juice through it?

Open mind. Man, if you truly believe that you've got problems.

Just. Wow.

One more time GW, how many times have you used a Vea? How many time have you made judgements without knowing a thing about what you're judging? Oh, and for that matter, how many reviews have you read at my publication? Care to sight any wrong information from there as well? Would love to see it.

Open mind... yea, that's what you should change your username to, OpenMind. Indeed.


Woof Woof! Actually, you're completely off on this. I keep an open mind on everything, especially vaping. As I said earlier, there are certainly higher priced products out there. But seriously, look where you are. You are on a forum board that's...heck I don't know how big it is, but even more important....it's active with great members. Compared to a mall kiosk, yes it's a great price. Compared to what's out there, it's like paying a BMW sticker price for a Kia.
 

Synnuh

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I don't know how many people you know in the area of publishing but let me assure you, if anyone depended on making any serious money from linking affiliates they would go broke in a heartbeat. We don't do it to make money, if anything, we've done it because we've been asked by the brand to do it. We certainly don't expect to make money from it, nor have we.

I'm sorry I'm even getting involved, but one area I do know well is affiliate marketing. When you setup a site with affiliate links on it, you're planning to make money. I actually took offense to the 'go broke in a heartbeat' comment. I've supported my family for 3 years on affiliate and advertising income, and have spent my fair share of time "marketing" sub-par products in order to get an affiliate sale. Like others have said here, and I'm guilty of it as well (not with e-cigarettes), when money is involved the review is no longer credible -- no matter how hard you try. It's why affiliate sales are so hard to get these days. People got wise to the strategy. There's killer money to be made as an affiliate, though, and a link from a large site like this goes a long way towards propelling you to the top of search engines for keywords that newbies may use, and land on your site. Forum admins and users here also know that.

Take a look at some of the best reviewers here on the site. GrimGreen and PBusardo are two that come to the top of my head quickly. Neither of them get paid commissions for what they do, and that's why the community trusts them so much.

I'm just as new as you are to the forums, but as an affiliate marketer I think you could have approached it in a different manner, and gotten a lot warmer reception than you did. Don't leave because of one bad thread, though. You had to know that affiliates get pounded when they spend time in forums, because it looks like you are "trolling for traffic" as you put it. Show people otherwise, and stick around to share some non-monetized reviews of gear you've used.

I apologize in advance for posting off topic, but I felt like I could help you out in some way, and keep you from leaving ECF if you, indeed, wanted to stick around. Just, IMHO, you may try editing your original review to tell people what you really think about it. The honesty in a review goes a long way, and you can still make affiliate sales without getting eaten alive by the sharks.
 
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MyKosmo

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Thank you for addressing this. I meant to say that eCigarette affiliates make pennies, if they make anything. I don't even think we've checked the affiliate links in a couple of months at least. We did get an email about a month ago from Blu Cigs telling us they were moving to PepperJam and we had to update our links. We didn't do it because it was too much bother, so we just link to the site.

It's not where we make money. We code for a living, PHP and Flash, as well as graphic design and photography. Our site (whose name shall not be mentioned) is a passion project, plain and simple. There's no money in it, there's no free stuff in it, there's just an interest in getting people off cigarettes. Now I know that for some people who have responded to the blood in the water that anything altruistic isn't real, but hey there's nothing I can do about that.

I'm happy that you've supported your family with affiliate marketing, and I have no ill feelings about it. But we don't, and that's not what we're about.

I haven't written the forum off, only certain people. People that say someone has no credibility and yet offers opinions as truth when the reality is they've never even seen the product in person. You find them everywhere, like PC users who bash Mac users, yet have never sat down to use a Mac, and vice versa. At least when I write something its from the point of someone that actually owns and uses the product.

Again, thanks for the input.



I'm sorry I'm even getting involved, but one area I do know well is affiliate marketing. When you setup a site with affiliate links on it, you're planning to make money. I actually took offense to the 'go broke in a heartbeat' comment. I've supported my family for 3 years on affiliate and advertising income, and have spent my fair share of time "marketing" sub-par products in order to get an affiliate sale. Like others have said here, and I'm guilty of it as well (not with e-cigarettes), when money is involved the review is no longer credible -- no matter how hard you try. It's why affiliate sales are so hard to get these days. People got wise to the strategy. There's killer money to be made as an affiliate, though, and a link from a large site like this goes a long way towards propelling you to the top of search engines for keywords that newbies may use, and land on your site. Forum admins and users here also know that.

Take a look at some of the best reviewers here on the site. GrimGreen and PBusardo are two that come to the top of my head quickly. Neither of them get paid commissions for what they do, and that's why the community trusts them so much.

I'm just as new as you are to the forums, but as an affiliate marketer I think you could have approached it in a different manner, and gotten a lot warmer reception than you did. Don't leave because of one bad thread, though. You had to know that affiliates get pounded when they spend time in forums, because it looks like you are "trolling for traffic" as you put it. Show people otherwise, and stick around to share some non-monetized reviews of gear you've used.
 

tj99959

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    In a nut shell there isn't a thing wrong with Johnson Creek. They have been a good company for a long time. So trust me, that is not what we have been critical of here.

    It escapes me why you can't figure it out!
    Our site (whose name shall not be mentioned) is a passion project, plain and simple.
     
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    Stosh

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    ....... At least when I write something its from the point of someone that actually owns and uses the product.......

    And you're comparing it to what list of other products you have used extensively?

    Your review say it has advanced electronics, so is it linear regulated or switched and at what level?
    What resistance are these super-advanced cartos that work without using up the battery?
    A review with an o-scope of loaded output would carry some more weight.....:)
     

    Harplayr

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    [soapbox]
    I wish you guys could stop the squabbling and actually discuss the product.
    THAT would be beneficial to people that come here.

    The Vea, while similar in most respects to an ego does have some interesting differences and does deserve honest discussion and consideration.

    So to both MyKosmo and the people that are perpetuating the bashfest, please give it a rest already and let’s get down to discussing vaping.
    [/soapbox]
     

    sailorman

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    I guess it depends on your definition of the normal vaper is, don't you think? I wouldn't assume that the normal, "Hey I have a Life" vaper is going to vape 24/7, and will more than likely use theirs as they would normal cigarettes. I don't people here, people that spend time in an eCig forum, or run an eCig publication, can be considered normal vapers.

    No offense, but I have to question the qualifications of someone who would make that statement. Many people who start vaping anticipate their use pattern will parallel their smoking habits. The new member forum is full of people who say they're a light smoker, or a "social smoker" and are looking for a first e-cig to use "a few times a day for a few minutes". It's also full of threads that start something like "Is it normal to vape more than you smoked".

    Fact is, it's a rare person who uses their e-cig like they would a normal cigarette. The nature of how e-cigs work does not lend itself to that. And, again, I have to question whether someone who is unaware of that fact has enough knowledge and experience to do credible reviews.

    You'll be very hard pressed to find anyone who gets a full day from a 650mah battery, let alone "a few days", unless they stay tethered to their passthrough cable. To imply otherwise, or that someone should expect that, is totally misleading.

    As for the Vea, a careful analysis of JC's marketing literature can only fail to impress anyone who is knowledgeable about e-cigs. Anyone familiar with marketing, copywriting or advertising can easily identify it as being 90% fluff and hype. The Vea is no more than a good quality eGo clone, sold with matched cartomizers that may, or may not, be particularly well suited for the juice they sell. More than anything, it is a vehicle to foster loyalty to JC's juice line which is, after all, their primary product.

    As for the Blu exec's remarks about not needing VV, it just proves he's uneducated about anything beyond the confines of his own product line. That's not at all unusual for someone involved in running a company with a narrow scope of interest. I wouldn't consult the CEO of McDonalds on the subject of gourmet seafood either.
     

    sailorman

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    1ML is average, to new vapers who's only experience so far is Green Smoke, South Beach, Pro Smoke, Blu, and on an on... really? Cause I'd like to fit 1ML in any of those cartos, let me tell you.
    1ml may not be average for any of the models you mentioned, which happen to be about the worst 4 models in existence, but it is the industry standard for cartomizers. It's nothing to brag about and JCs touting of it only goes to demonstrate that their ad copy is just that. It's the typical fluff and gobbledegook that copywriters construct to impress people with no experience. It works splendidly in the audio equipment industry, why not the e-cig industry?

    It's obvious that you're not aware that the Vea is not only Lithium-Ion based, and the micro-circuitry inside manages the battery power much better than ego clones, and that the cartomizer built for the Vea also extends the life of the battery? No, guess not, cause I'm sure you've not bothered to research the Vea since before right now because your interest level has been nil.
    Really? Lithium-Ion based? Micro-circuitry? Wow!! How impressive sounding to someone who is unaware of the fact that every eGo clone in the world is lithium-ion based and contains micro-circuitry. See my remarks above.

    You can create circuitry that is more efficient, no doubt. But no circuitry can be 100% efficient and other eGo clones, while not spectacularly efficient, aren't so bad that a good circuit can exceed their efficiency by nearly 1000%, as would be necessary for a multiple-day 650mah battery.

    There is only one way for a cartomizer to extend the life of the battery and that's to demand lower current draw. The laws of physics dictate that a lower current draw results in a lower temperature. If JC has created a cartomizer/juice combination that vaporizes at 1/100th the power requirements of other e-cigs and still feels warm, more power to them. If they somehow created a magical cartomizer or "micro-circuitry" that defies the laws of physics and creates energy out of thin air, then I suggest someone notify the Nobel nominating committee.

    When claims are made that defy physical laws; when the mudane is presented in a way calculated to impress the uninitiated, there is no need to for an knowledgeable, experienced person to verify it by firsthand experience. If it smells like snake oil, looks like snake oil and makes the claims of snake oil, there's no reason to buy it in order to find out if it works and tastes like snake oil.

    But sure, go ahead and make judgement calls all day long on things you don't have a full grasp on. Much like the guy here that assumed I am "new" to vaping and clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Whatever.
    You have made statements that indicate you are either new to vaping, or your knowledge and experience with it is limited. No shame in that. When you gain more knowledge and experience, you will more easily recognize hype and fluff when you see it and you'll be less impressed by marketing claims and devices that merely work well will not seem so spectacular.

    I do hope people take my buying advice, but not just mine. They should seek out others that actually have experience with it, like I do. Ya know Cherry, I don't think I'd make a buying decision from someone telling to buy or not buy when they have zero experience with it. Like yourself. Then again, as the owner of one, as the user of one, and as a fan of one, I think I can speak to it.
    Again, firsthand experience is not always the best way to evaluate something if you have no knowledge base or frame of reference. If Honda advertised the Prius as being the fastest car in the world, I don't think I'd need firsthand experience to know otherwise. Of course, if I knew absolutely nothing about cars and it was the first car I'd ever driven, then I might well believe the ad men. I might test drive one and agree it must be the fastest car in the world. But what would that firsthand experience really prove? Only that I had no knowledge or frame of reference.

    Back peddle all you want, but your snarky comments stand as they are. An apology from you might carry more weight though.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you have some information about how JC's magical circuitry manages to squeeze at least 300% more run time than anyone else, I would be willing to put it to the test.

    I'm a fairly heavy vaper, so I wouldn't expect 2 or three days from any 650 mah battery. But if you'd like to send me a Vea, I'll test it. If I get more than 8 hours out of it at my normal vaping pace, I'll apologize publicly and profusely and recommend it to all newbies. I'll send as much traffic as I can to your site and I'll buy the Vea you send me and buy you a new one as well. I'll even buy a 3rd unit for you to do with as you wish. Are you up for it? That's only approx. 1/6th the run time of what you claim a light vaper could expect.
     

    NGIB

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    Thank the heavens that you have arrived here and thrown down the gauntlet. The OP thinks we're all criticizing JC and we're not - just his completely wild claims. Personally, I hope he sends a pretty printed and framed copy of his review to JC - along with his home phone, cell phone, and email address. Then when JC has to process complaints from disgruntled customers that aren't getting a "few days" of use without charging the battery - they can allow the OP to personally give refunds.

    I know I come here to actually learn from experienced folks what works, what doesn't, what's a fair value and what isn't. Sadly, this industry is so full of shills, con artists, and "reviewers" that it's no wonder folks give up trying to vape. Sad, truly sad...
     
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    sailorman

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    You're right, I wish they would. I wish all of them would, but sadly the only company I've known to do so is Blu Cigs. Their video even says so. Others, well, they don't it is a consumable and the temptation for many people, especially cheap people, would be to claim a malfunction when there isn't one. I imagine that is the only reason none of them warrant their cartomizers. But, I wish they would because I've had my share of duds.

    Again, you inexperience is showing. A lot of companies cover DOAs. Some, such as Smokeless Image even offer a satisfaction guarantee. That would certainly cover DOAs. Plus, it's commonly acknowledged that the Volt is a FAR superior product to Blu in the first place, so the loss of an occasional cartomizer is negligible compared to the difference in overall quality. Many companies offer unrealistic warranties to suck in newbs who don't know any better and to enforce brand loyalty. The "lifetime warranty" employed by V2 is a perfect example as it becomes void if you fail to buy consumables from them in any 90 day period.

    Overly long warranties on consumables are unrealistic and must be compensated for by other means. Yet many vendors offer DOA warranties on cartomizers and other consumables. Anything more than that falls into the category of marketing hype.
     

    sailorman

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    .....

    And, just one more time; I'm sure a 650 mAh battery isn't going to last days when you're vaping 10-15 ML a day. But an average vaper, (not anyone here I'm sure) who vapes instead of smoking, can get a few days from a single charge. If I could I'd set up a camera here to do a time-lapse, ;) it all depends on what you're using and HOW. I don't want to address this point again because its like beating a dead horse, it ain't going anywhere.
    10-15ml a day??? Virtually no one vapes that much a day. For the umpteenth time, you've demonstrated your inexperience by even saying something so preposterous.

    I vape between 3-5ml a day, 6ml tops, and i'm a pretty heavy vaper. Some would call me a chain-vaper, but I don't think I am. I can tell you that there's no way on earth a 650mah battery would last more than 8 hours at my vaping pace.

    You can call it beating a dead horse, but it comprises the root of all the flak you're getting here. Anyone who comes here making such an absurd claim, while presenting themselves as someone qualified to review e-cigs, automatically attracts attention from those of us who are sick to death of all the scams and rip-offs in this industry. Nobody thinks JC is a scam company. They do a very good job with juice and I"m sure the Vea is a better than average eGo clone. But I seriously doubt that, even in their marketing departments wildest fantasies, they'd ever try to make the claims you're making here.

    You know what's really funny? Rereading my original post, and how innocuous it seemed at the time. Had I known that some of the members here were so thin-skinned and unwelcoming to those that work in the industry I wouldn't have posted it. Pretty sad really.
    It's not a matter of being thin-skinned or unwelcoming. Most of the members here are unwelcoming to people who claim to work in the industry while repeatedly demonstrating, by their overblown claims, that they are either shills or they don't have the experience to even know what they don't know. We are a bit protective of our newer members and don't like to see them misled. What you have claimed here is no different than the breathless and enthusiastic noob2noob reviews on Youtube. You know, the ones with the "discount code" links in them.
     

    Harplayr

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    Good points all Sailorman.

    As somebody that has a few 650mah Kgos, and a 650mah eGo Twist that has actually owned a Vea and spent a week with it I can attest that it lasts about the same as the other 650mah batteries I've owned. I'm not a heavy vaper. On normal days I get about 5-8 hours (start fresh in the morning, dead early evening) from any 650mah battery in my possession. I don't know much about it's internal circuitry, but I didn't feel I got as much of a dropoff from full charge to end of charge as I do with my Kgo's. That is based on perception and not measurement though.

    That said, if I didn't already have several Kgo's and had just gotten the Twist, I would have kept the Vea. This is purely subjective, but to me it presented a nicer fit and finish that had some good features that made it worth the extra $20 or so. I don't think the product deserves some of the bashing it's gotten in this thread. If someone were looking for a Kgo style PV, I wouldn't hesitate recommending a Vea if they want to get something that performs well (for it's class) and looks and feels nice.

    On another topic, I have no problems with Johnson Creek's customer service. They were very friendly, and when I asked to return it they paid for the return shipping sent me a UPS label via email and gave me a full refund - carto's and all.

    In my opinion Johnson Creek is a quality vendor and the Vea is a quality product. It's not earth shattering, but has some nice features, has outstanding fit and finish and vapes well (for it's class).
     

    sailorman

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    I agree that there is a lot of misrepresentation of products here. But that happens in every forum I've participated in, including the tech industry where I hale from. It pays to look around, take in more than one review. When we can we have 4 people review the same product and then one writer will put it together, that was mainly done due to the subjective nature of taste. What I like in a juice you may hate. My brother says he cannot taste a chemical flavor with his Tgo, but I can taste it in every atomizer setup I've tried, which is why I highly recommend the cartomizer method.
    That's where you're wrong. Misrepresentation of products is something that is rarely tolerated here, as you've found out. There are debatable opinions expressed here, but that's not the same as misrepresentation of products, something that never goes unchallenged on these forums.
    Apparently you've never used a clearomizer or a dripping atomizer. Don't even try to claim that any cartomizer, regardless of what they're filled with, has less of a chemical taste than a dripping atomizer or a good clearomizer. That is a misrepresentation of a product that will not go unchallenged. And, once again, your statements just point to your extremely limited experience. Either that, or you're simply persisting in pushing a product, regardless of facts.
    .... But then I'm all for juices made in the USA only, or maybe Europe when the time comes. But juices "made" in China, but the chinese, yea, no, I don't want that. Do you know how many big brands, or well known anyway, use chinese made juice, right off the shelf? Terrible, but it happens. I don't trust them, not after killing so many pets here.

    Don't even start me in a debate about Chinese juices. I will slaughter you.
    The fact is that probably 90% of the nicotine used in this country for everything from patches to gum to e-juice is imported from China. If there was no Chinese juice, there would be no e-cig industry. The govenment controls how much tobacco can be grown. If people didn't buy Chinese juice, the vast majority of e-juice would disappear and the government wouldn't be expanding tobacco allotments to satisfy the demands of vapers.

    Vaping is less efficient than smoking in delivering nicotine. As vaping grows, so will the demand for tobacco plants. The US cannot become self-sufficient in tobacco or nicotine. Europe is not a feasible substitute for Chinese nicotine.

    Personally, I don't trust any large company. But the largest e-juice company in the entire world is Dekang. The quantity of juice produced by Dekang dwarfs the output of JC and all the other American companies who use American nicotine combined. I have yet to hear of any problems with their juice and their facilities are every bit as clean, their safeguards every bit as tight, as those of JC. As for killing pets, American companies are not immune to such blunders. The difference is that, unlike Chinese companies, American corporations and CEO's are not held responsible when those things happen. At worst, they're sued into bankruptcy, don their golden parachutes and retire in luxury or secure an 8 figure salary in another corporation. If America actually made anything besides financial instruments, you would see similar screw-ups coming from us. In the past, there were plenty of them. And, even now, contamination of American food products has become so routine and commonplace that it barely makes the 24 hour news cycle. If we manufactured 1/4 of what China does, our record would be no better than theirs.

    If you think that American companies are some exemplar of good practices, I suggest you search for a thread entitled "Houston, we have a problem" and find out how wrong you are and what consequences American companies, and those that run them, face when they endanger people's lives, not pets. Then, contrast that with your pet killing Chinese who, BTW, are cooling their heels in a Chinese prison somewhere.
     
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    tj99959

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    but I didn't feel I got as much of a dropoff from full charge to end of charge as I do with my Kgo's. That is based on perception and not measurement though.

    That is quite possible. The Kgo starts out at "charge voltage" (4.2v) and slowly drops off to shut off voltage. However a regulated voltage device, like an eGo, starts out at 3.4v and stays there. But, eGo - Kgo - whatevergo, they are all the same class of battery.

    but I can taste it in every atomizer setup I've tried, which is why I highly recommend the cartomizer method.

    Nothing wrong with that, most everyone has a vavorite, but you will find more that object to the filler taste from a carto than you will find that object to a metalic taste from an atty.
     
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    minyddol

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    I would go with the advice of the chunkmeister ...this guy has become my vape guru and has led me through all the options of Batteries and making my own juice...and has started to mod his own Cartomizers...and posted his vidoes on youtube ..as im no good at DIY i might get my begging knees and ask him to make me a couple :)
    Keep a eye on this guy on youtube i bet there will be more to come in the future.
     

    sailorman

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    Good points all Sailorman.

    As somebody that has a few 650mah Kgos, and a 650mah eGo Twist that has actually owned a Vea and spent a week with it I can attest that it lasts about the same as the other 650mah batteries I've owned. I'm not a heavy vaper. On normal days I get about 5-8 hours (start fresh in the morning, dead early evening) from any 650mah battery in my possession. I don't know much about it's internal circuitry, but I didn't feel I got as much of a dropoff from full charge to end of charge as I do with my Kgo's. That is based on perception and not measurement though.

    That said, if I didn't already have several Kgo's and had just gotten the Twist, I would have kept the Vea. This is purely subjective, but to me it presented a nicer fit and finish that had some good features that made it worth the extra $20 or so. I don't think the product deserves some of the bashing it's gotten in this thread. If someone were looking for a Kgo style PV, I wouldn't hesitate recommending a Vea if they want to get something that performs well (for it's class) and looks and feels nice.

    On another topic, I have no problems with Johnson Creek's customer service. They were very friendly, and when I asked to return it they paid for the return shipping sent me a UPS label via email and gave me a full refund - carto's and all.

    In my opinion Johnson Creek is a quality vendor and the Vea is a quality product. It's not earth shattering, but has some nice features, has outstanding fit and finish and vapes well (for it's class).

    I agree with virtually everything you've said here. JC is a fine company from all reports. I have nothing whatever against them. In fact, I think they'd be upset to hear their product being misrepresented by the O.P.

    I don't have a problem with the Vea either. It likely does have less a voltage dropoff than a kGo. The Vea probably has no dropoff at all. That's the nature of a regulated system, although I doubt the OP could have explained that. A kGo is unregulated. It will start about 4.2V and drop from there. Most eGos, and some clones like the Vea, have a regulated output. They start and stop at the same 3.4V. Naturally, there will be no drop off. But, the battery life is no better because of it. It's simply a matter of how the power is distributed. I would charge my kGo long before it ever dropped to the 3.4V that the eGo or Vea start and end at. Or, I would switch to a lower resistance carto during the last few hours when I detected a drop in voltage. Regulated voltage is strictly personal preference and has nothing to do with overall useable battery life. It certainly doesn't make one battery last 5 times longer than another.

    Again, my problem is not with JC or the Vea. My problem is with a poseur who comes here claiming to have the experience and knowledge necessary to be considered a credible source of information while making wild and spectacular claims about what is likely a good, but certainly not spectacular, product. Meanwhile, the poseur makes several comments that belie his inexperience and lack of knowledge. Unfortunately, they are only really obvious to people who know better and not so obvious to newbies who are apt to be taken in by them.

    I don't even have a problem with affiliates. I don't even have a problem with a reviewer who earned his chops before he became an affiliate. I have a problem with affiliates who claim objectivity without being so successful at affiliate marketing that they can afford to be objective. I have a problem with affiliates who don't possess the knowledge and experience to be objective even if they wanted to. I don't think the OP is dependent enough on affiliate sales to be intentionally misrepresenting a product. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt about that. I think he's simply inexperienced, lacking in technical knowledge regarding e-cigs and unaware of the extent of what he doesn't know.
     
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