Joining Casaa when joining ECF

[tnt56]

That is so sad. About the ANTZ. Went to see some family that knows nothing about vaping.
Not allowed to vape in their home.
No worries. I respect others wishes.
Gave my sister some CASSA brochure and she ask me what to do with it.
"Well if you care about your brother you will read it. Otherwise you can use it to start a fire".
Really was shocked. No interest from any of them. But I'm still here.

 

[kristin]

Does CASSA coordinate with NORML? I thought I saw a post on one of the California campaigns where they were coordinating with NORML. Maybe it was just a member and not a CASSA rep. If they do, I won't ever join or contribute to them.

I didn't think you ever planned to join or donate anyhow, but it depends what you mean by "coordinating with NORML?" We just found ourselves working on the same side opposing proposed laws in California that affected both their membership and our's.

Someone from CASAA may have alerted them about our Berkeley Call to Action, because they were so effective fighting a vaping ban in Sacramento (Cal NORML are a lot bigger, richer and have more influence than CASAA in California), but we don't have any formal, working relationship with them. CASAA is not interested in taking up NORML's cause or mission, but if they are fighting against the same laws as we are, we will work with them if it ultimately benefits THR and vapers.

 

[stevegmu]

I didn't think you ever planned to join or donate anyhow, but it depends what you mean by "coordinating with NORML?" We just found ourselves working on the same side opposing proposed laws in California that affected both their membership and our's.

Someone from CASAA may have alerted them about our Berkeley Call to Action, because they were so effective fighting a vaping ban in Sacramento (Cal NORML are a lot bigger, richer and have more influence than CASAA in California), but we don't have any formal, working relationship with them. CASAA is not interested in taking up NORML's cause or mission, but if they are fighting against the same laws as we are, we will work with them if it ultimately benefits THR and vapers.

That's all I needed to know. I won't have anything to do with an organization that works with groups like NORML. They are why vape gear is being considered paraphernalia by many.

 

[wv2win]

Does CASSA coordinate with NORML? I thought I saw a post on one of the California campaigns where they were coordinating with NORML. Maybe it was just a member and not a CASSA rep. If they do, I won't ever join or contribute to them.

That's laughable that you won't join or contribute to CASAA "if" they coordinate with NORML. As if that has anything to do with your not joining and supporting CASAA. Some of us have been around long enough to know you never had any intention of supporting CASAA or helping to stop severe restrictions on vaping and it has nothing to do with NORML.

 

[kristin]

That's all I needed to know. I won't have anything to do with an organization that works with groups like NORML. They are why vape gear is being considered paraphernalia by many.

Obviously, that is your prerogative, but NORML isn't why vape gear is "considered paraphernalia." That "other" paraphernalia was called "vaporizers" long before e-cigarettes came on the market. E-cig users started calling their devices "vaping" and their gear "vaporizers" and THAT is what causes the confusion. NORML had nothing to do with that association.

Cal NORML is why e-cigarette users in Sacramento got a reprieve from a proposed e-cigarette ban there - because the e-cig ban inadvertently would have effected NORML members. Otherwise, they never would have gotten involved and the ban would have passed because the vaper community there had no political influence. But I don't think residents there are looking that gift horse in the mouth.

If anything, e-cig ban proposals are causing more potential problems for NORML members, not the other way around. Either way, NORML only has a strong influence in limited areas (where it's legal), so I doubt CASAA would find itself allied with them too often.

 

[tnt56]

Obviously, that is your prerogative, but NORML isn't why vape gear is "considered paraphernalia." That "other" paraphernalia was called "vaporizers" long before e-cigarettes came on the market. E-cig users started calling their devices "vaping" and their gear "vaporizers" and THAT is what causes the confusion. NORML had nothing to do with that association.

Cal NORML is why e-cigarette users in Sacramento got a reprieve from a proposed e-cigarette ban there - because the e-cig ban inadvertently would have effected NORML members. Otherwise, they never would have gotten involved and the ban would have passed because the vaper community there had no political influence. But I don't think residents there are looking that gift horse in the mouth.

If anything, e-cig ban proposals are causing more potential problems for NORML members, not the other way around. Either way, NORML only has a strong influence in limited areas (where it's legal), so I doubt CASAA would find itself allied with them too often.

You have wisdom you will never realize my Lady. CASAA is the TRUTH. Well at least in my little mind it is. And that's why I support and relay the information to others.

 

[Navy20]

Became a Supporting Member of ECF yesterday
Joined CASAA today
Loowing forward to a long future with both organizations

 

[WayfaringStranger]

Joined up today.

 

[Jman8]

Am I the first to ever think of this? Is the following part of the ECF sign up and I just skipped over it?

When I joined ECF, it took me a couple of weeks to even realize what Casaa was and that I should join it. I can't think of two things that go hand in hand better. When I joined ECF if there had been a brief description of Casaa and an easy way to join (say by checking a box) I think tons of people would instantly become members.

A couple weeks to join CASAA after being on ECF?

Ha, that's nothing. It took me a full year.

Personally, I think it works against both ECF and CASAA to treat them as entirely separate entities when reality is next big legislation news item that comes up will be something that ECF will likely sticky at top of forum for all to see. In my first 3 or so months at ECF, I'd see it, and kinda had awareness of CASAA and felt that group would manage the work to be done. I certainly participated in writing letters to congress, but felt CASAA was at another level that was likely run by industry insiders. Then after awhile I realized CASAA is a group of consumers who saw enough items thru ECF, and likely elsewhere, and wanted to be organized as a group, with resources at immediate disposal, to stand a reasonable chance in defeating these items. Without CASAA, whatever ECF is doing by stickying legislative news at tip top of forum is mostly pointless, IMO.

I think vapers as a collective come off as fairly disorganized and if more ECF members (who are consumers, not vendors) were provided guidance on what CASAA is about and how it matters more and more to be involved on that front, it would help the (larger) cause. Could still emphasize, as desired, that ECF is for helping newbies get set up and able to assist with whatever questions one has on gear and such. But it is now past time for vapers to join up with the political action groups to help stave off what, so far in 2014, looks like a push from the opposition as if they are recruiting its members by any means necessary. One would think ALA and ACS are 'completely separate entities,' but when it comes to opposition to vaping, they seem to be speaking in unison and fully supportive of each other's stand in the larger debate / narrative.

While theoretically it could work against CASAA and/or ECF to arrange for a political marriage of sorts, it seems to be working against us to maintain a legal separation between the two. Individual vapers who are excited by what vaping offers, are flopping around in the wind, showing up rather ineffective when it comes to the bigger battles that, here in 2014, are squarely upon us.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

[...] While theoretically it could work against CASAA and/or ECF to arrange for a political marriage of sorts, it seems to be working against us to maintain a legal separation between the two. Individual vapers who are excited by what vaping offers, are flopping around in the wind, showing up rather ineffective when it comes to the bigger battles that, here in 2014, are squarely upon us.

I agree w/ your general points about "political marriage" and the fact that vapers aren't as well-organized as we could be. If you're using the term legal separation literally (and you may not be), there probably is a legal issue: CASAA is a 501(c)(4) organization based here in the states (ihcoroporated in AL), whereas ECF is based in the UK. I don't know what UK laws apply here, but CASAA might (as you acknowledge) run into some legal issues by integrating too closely with ECF. Your example of ACS and ALA is a good one, but as you point out they merely coordinate their messaging. There's still a "Chinese Wall" between the two, I believe.

That said, there's nothing wrong with any organization (for-profit or otherwise) which seeks to promote or coordinate messages with a (c)(3) or a (c)(4), except for some very limited exceptioins in the realm of campaign finance that only apply when one of the two organizations is a political candidate's campaign. For example, a private corporation that solicits its customers and/or employees to donate to, or support a (c)(3) is not viewed as a source of income to the (c)(3) for tax purposes. Happens all the time (think: March of Dimes).

It may be that some ECF members don't join CASAA because they think they'll have to pay a fee. Or because (as you imply) vapers are just too disorganized (I might even add "apathetic" to that). Perhaps some just come here for the support in the smoking cessation context, and/or for technical information on vendors, MODs, etc. Still others are just not inclined to participate in any form of cause that they see as issue-oriented.

 

[Jman8]

While it seems to make sense on the one hand, ECF and CASAA are completely separate entities.

Okay, so I can't remember what other post / thread this was being discussed, and yet recall it being relatively recent. I did look, but thought I'd use this thread to say, I do think it is entirely helpful to the cause that ECF does sticky CTA's at the top of the forum which is currently the case for RI and OR proposed bans, as I type this.

I realize ECF might not be willing to go the rest of the way to help encourage more ECF people in joining CAASA apart from these bans, but did just really want to say thank you for doing this. This is not the first time, nor do I think it'll be the last time, that ECF has done this. And it is always helpful, I think, in rallying the troops.

 

[low_tar_neil]

We will always post them when we know about them, the problem is there are so many that we don't always spot them or know which ones to prioritise

For example, those two are up there now because we happened to speak to Greg yesterday.

However, our new theme we will be putting in place soon allows us to have a specific prominent content zone where we are going to be able to tell people about calls to action local to them, which will be great - just need to figure out a way to get the news as soon as possible without having to go looking for it.