Just a quick rant

[Haktuspit]

Just go outside and vape. I know it sucks but I try to not bring any politics into friendships, even vape politics. We discuss them often but I'm not going to escalate to a point where we're not getting along. One of my best friends from home said his house will be vape free next time I come and I'm still going to visit. If he means his yard too I'll probably punch him in the junk though.

He is my best friend though, and well... he has never tried to convince me that he could smoke wherever he pleased in my house. I guess that part would be crawling under my skin as well.

 

[SupplyDaddy]

I just bought a 42 foot covered porch.. and the house that goes with it.
If you gotta vape outside, you're welcome to stop by.

But I allow vaping anywhere in the house!

 

[bombastinator]

I just bought a 42 foot covered porch.. and the house that goes with it.
If you gotta vape outside, you're welcome to stop by.

But I allow vaping anywhere in the house!

I dunno. It might smell bad being covered with all those feet.

 

[dwcraig1]

"They" sure are doing a good job of giving us nic vapers a black eye because of the black market other stuff. That surely is intended IMO.

 

[stols001]

I have to be honest, I would (OMG I am fairly certain someone is shooting a gun outside! Or, fireworks!) of the whole divide and conquer thing. I mean, I am fairly certain that if I ever see my sis again (the one who "owes" me a phone call for 1 month plus 3 days now but who is counting?) she would not allow me to vape around her children.

She's not dumb either, she is however very much part of the social media crowd, and I think she would think, "What about all the times my sister was an alcoholic, my sister did that, my sister said this, and she wound up being wrong?" That type of logic.

I call it the logic of the unfairness of addiction and harm reduction. Society wins via Puritanism, if you have once done a BAD thing, such as smoke cigarettes, and you do a BETTER thing, such as vape, once it becomes too threatening all the big interest groups, all they NEED to do is like, convince the "good" people who smoked and quit completely (like my sis) or switched to something more harmless, such as myself (believe me if I could have quit, I would have. Her addictive tendencies have baby teeth, mine have the fangs and claws of Satan, as it so happens.)

But, it is extremely easy to say "Well, she used to smoke and say THAT was fine (not that I did, really) or act like it was fine, so why should I believe HER about vaping?"

I'm not sure I'd even blame my sister for her feelings, but big tobacco sure knows how to capitalize on it. They don't even have to say smoking is better YET. They can hang out saying kids are all dying and WOW LUNG death in DAYS for a while, while quietly watching people switch back, and then they will turn back to how lovely and alluring tobacco is compared to those disgusting MENTHOL and whatever flavored cardboard vapes are, while MANUFACTURING BOTH.

Machiavelli lives on, always, somewhere, sometime in some environment or another.

We believe what we choose to believe, and we believe it based on our perspectives, education, and experiences. I've been blessed to grow up all over the world, and I have also been blessed with an excellent education while simultaneously attempting (when paid at least but it sort of bleeds over) to put myself into another person's shoes.

I think vaping is not over until it's over, but based on the increased obesity in this country, some place, somewhere, in most towns and countries, some fat lady, somewhere, is singing.

And it is a very foul tune.

Anna

 

[vaper1960]

I still don't vape even in my own house, stopped smoking inside years ago, didn't change when I started vaping. I have some friends who smoke, whenever we go to their house I still go outside to vape. Back when I still smoked I would always go outside and smoke when we were there. Just got trained I guess. They do think I'm a little off when it's freezing or raining outside and I'm in their yard vaping away while they're dry and warm inside smoking..

Same here... just got used to going outside, then decided to vape inside and the wife said no (she still smokes, but not a lot) but there is on exception (using "the can"... makes great air freshener )

 

[vaper1960]

Outdoors pretty much always beats indoors, well except where you are in the winter, got friend in Green Bay, y'all get COLD!

When I lived in the mountains at 5000 ft I vaped in the snow many times.

 

[ppeeble]

So if he's buying into all the media BS that's doing the rounds then i'd say 'fair enough'. I mean, who's he going to believe - a vaper with a vested interest in allowing vaping or the NEWS.
If he's saying no to vaping because he was looking for an excuse to lay down the law then it would be goodbye, and thanks for all the memories.
Bottom line is, no matter that vapers consider vaping a good thing, it's still a strange and scary habit to non vapers. As for the smoking thing - You've probably already made your mind up as to what sort of friend he is.....

 

[Ryedan]

That's almost word for word for how things were left. But because I've done it around 90 times before today, there was some discussion before I/we got to that point.

During that 20 years of tradition, there was a period (of like 5 years) where I didn't smoke/drink. During that time, at the house I had, I allowed others to do those things. Partially cause that's the way I roll, and partially cause I knew bans would turn people off. Same guy that said "nope, no vaping in my house" today, is same guy that once tried to convince I ought to allow smoking everywhere in my house if I allow it in the poker room.

I do my best to live and let live, and most times I succeed. I also try not to hold grudges, sometimes that works, sometimes not so much. I do find I mostly feel better if I can let things go.

However the underlined above would bug the crap outta me. I've explained the current vape concerns to a few friends lately and mostly they get it. One day when I find myself in your situation I think I will very likely do the same as you did.

It really sucks, but it is what it is. Rock on Jman.

 

[Iron Molly]

Was all set to play cards with friends tonight. A tradition in our group for over 20 years now. For at least the last 8 years, I'd be vaping at the table. Occasionally a (liberal) friend would want to have a discussion on the politics of vaping. That usually didn't end well. Kinda easy to win a discussion when you're holding a winning hand (metaphorically speaking).

We change off on who hosts, and everywhere we've ever played, I've always been allowed to vape, at the table. Tonight, I asked the host (just to be sure) if he is okay with me vaping. He said, he'd prefer I didn't. We discussed it a short while, and while I could possibly still enjoy myself with the updated policy (literally changed as of today), I decided it's not worth it. Part of me is lashing out at the societal changes of late.

Literally nothing (at all) has changed with vaping nicotine in the last 3+ months, yet as most of you all know, we are now in a societal phase where people truly believe both vaping (nic) is harmful to the user (as in you might die tonight) and harmful to all those around the vaper.

Given how idiotic society has become with 'knowledge of smoking,' I'm quite certain we will be in this phase indefinitely, or for a very long while. Probably won't be too long that we have statistics saying 300,000 people die annually from vaping related diseases. Sad if anyone reading this falls in line with that false information.

I feel your pain. I'm a cyclist, and a runner. And I vape. The looks and comments I get, even though I'm outside, are something else. Most people who I've known for years now are pretty supportive. But you do get the occasional person who takes offense. My fav was a passive-aggressive e-mail sent after the fact regarding my "smoking machine." And then there was the woman who was "allergic" to my vape. When asked what specifically she was allergic TO, she didn't know. Mind you, I stand away from others when vaping, and tell them let me know if the wind shifts or it bothers you. And I'm a total tootle puffer. I can only imagine it's going to get worse now.

 

[Jman8]

Just go outside and vape. I know it sucks but I try to not bring any politics into friendships, even vape politics. We discuss them often but I'm not going to escalate to a point where we're not getting along.

I'm still not at a point where going outside to vape makes sense to me. I'm much more at a point where I'm going to seek a way to vape indoors without the knowledge of whoever set the rule (or chief enforcer). That doesn't mean I always do this, but given all I know/understand about vapor, I find it quite challenging to go along with the reasoning for not vaping indoors.

With all that said, vaping last night outside, would've been disruptive since we were shorthanded. I'm fairly certain my stepping out at all would've been met with "really, so soon?" And eventually met with, "I didn't think you'd go out that much, so I'm ready to call it a night." I've kind of decided that for me to play cards with the group going forward, assuming all now want it outside, that it can never be a small group get together, so that my (constant) departure is not leading to end of the night, so soon.

During our exchange yesterday (mostly via text), my friend asked me, "are you that addicted that you can't go a few hours without it." Because of everything going on in that moment, namely that I was driving (thus not wanting to text at all), I responded with a simple, "yes."

Given the amount of times I've gone cold turkey from analogs (never less than a year), I'm quite certain I can abstain from vaping (indefinitely). I've also been in situations where it was not possible to vape/step outside with ease. I've found that fairly easy for the most part. So as I stated in the OP, I was kinda lashing out at the societal changes as of late, plus the fact that the policy among friends was literally changing with that discussion I initiated yesterday.

Anyway, I feel it prudent to fight back and possibly escalate on vaping stuff, right about now. Willingness to step outside I think is sending a bunch of messages, not the least of which is, "I kinda of agree with you that second hand vapor is harmful (to some degree)." Might not be discussed in that moment, but if it's a place one will be returning to (like a friend's house), then I see that discussion coming up at some point. I also think the vapor from other items that may be present, and not visible (i.e. coffee, beer), ought to be curtailed if being consistent. As in those ought to be done outside, whether person likes it or not, given that there is very likely harmful constituents in that vapor. Obviously it is (totally) negligible harm, but if being consistent with point of second hand vapor, I consider it rational to have it curtailed under same logic at work.

In summary, I probably am going to escalate to the point of not getting along. And I honestly think that is prudent given the situation with vaping politics as it stands in this moment. I quickly realized yesterday that the principle of "respect my home" was butting up against the principle of "what degree of harm is actually in second hand vapor?" For me, the "respect my home" one does outweigh the other. In general. Yet, given the politics of vaping at the moment, it basically means certain friendships will have to be put on pause if they are actually going to be maintained.

 

[DaveP]

I feel your pain. I'm a cyclist, and a runner. And I vape. The looks and comments I get, even though I'm outside, are something else. Most people who I've known for years now are pretty supportive. But you do get the occasional person who takes offense. My fav was a passive-aggressive e-mail sent after the fact regarding my "smoking machine." And then there was the woman who was "allergic" to my vape. When asked what specifically she was allergic TO, she didn't know. Mind you, I stand away from others when vaping, and tell them let me know if the wind shifts or it bothers you. And I'm a total tootle puffer. I can only imagine it's going to get worse now.

I vape while I'm riding my indoor exercise bike. I also use a fingertip Oximeter to check my oxygen levels while I'm riding. I routinely get 98 to 99 percent O2 saturation while at the peak of my 30 minute ride at my peak resistance level 8 of 10. 95 to 100 percent is the targeted norm at rest. Vaping apparently does nothing to impede my lungs ability to function normally.

Back when I smoked I would have given out of breath far earlier in the ride. Vaping doesn't seem to affect my exercise ability at all.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

This is going to sound arrogant and egotistical, and I really don't mean it to sound that way. However...

I'm an avid cyclist and hiker. A couple of summers ago, I was at the peak of my activity (the best shape I've ever been in save perhaps for when I was backpacking half of the AT one year). Not a week went by all season without riding well over 100 miles. One day in particular I biked 115 miles (in the Adirondacks - not flat). I was vaping while riding. A lot.

Few days later I biked up the toll road to Whiteface Mountain - 8 miles up, 3500 feet or so. I hiked for a bit at the top (vaping), then biked down the mountain and over to another area nearby with mountain bike trails (yes, all of this was done on a mountain bike). All while vaping.

After all of this, I'm feeling great. So a few days later I drive to a mountain bike trail network. I'm getting my bike out of the car, pumping tires etc and having a vape. So here comes this cyclist, decked out in all his gear, looking so "serious" (I fancy a t-shirt or no-shirt and shorts - no jerseys). He comes riding by and sees me vaping. He starts loudly coughing, hacking, wheezing and flips me the bird as he rides by.

Really? I just watched him ride off, but if he had stopped, I was going to offer to race him up Whiteface Mountain, vape-in-hand. I'm confident that if I had not won the race, I would have impressed him nonetheless and perhaps made him re-consider his judgmental wheezing.

I'm a "respectful vaper" - I don't even vape in my house if friends are over unless they specifically tell me they don't mind. I step outside. I live in a beautiful place, so I don't ever mind stepping out (except when it's 30 below...). It really, really bothers me when I'm outdoors, minding my own business and someone does that kind of thing. He was quite far away from me. He definitely couldn't even smell the vapor, nowhere near it.

I don't live in New Hampshire but I've always loved their state motto: live free or die.

Edit: one more thing. The people close to me (including Mrs Sloth) were skeptical of vaping when I started, but every single one of them changed their tune when they realized that my health improved by leaps and bounds. They were stunned by my physical activity despite being a heavy vaper. Showing them stuff like the RCP report was just icing on the cake. Watching me live my life was proof enough for them that vaping is healthier than smoking.

 

[Rossum]

Edit: one more thing. The people close to me (including Mrs Sloth)

So you finally made an honest woman out of Chrissy?

were skeptical of vaping when I started, but every single one of them changed their tune when they realized that my health improved by leaps and bounds.

Same here. My entire family and all my employees were amazed at the difference it made. Not one of them minds if I vape in their presence, and none of them buy into the BS hysteria currently making the rounds.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

So you finally made an honest woman out of Chrissy?


Same here. My entire family and all my employees were amazed at the difference it made. Not one of them minds if I vape in their presence, and none of them buy into the BS hysteria currently making the rounds.

Working on it -

She's out hiking the John Muir trail this month, so she has no idea what's going on politically right now. I can't wait to fill her in when she returns home. I'm a fortunate sloth to have zero concern that she'll be alarmed for my health. I can see her eyes rolling already.

Heck, she's an EMT and county coordinator for EMS. I have to warn her of all the nicotine-vaping-related emergencies she's bound to respond to in the near future.