Little itty bitty mods under $100.

[aldenf]

I agree, most are not vaping over 30w - some might like 50w "to be on the safe side" (for what? Oh well, the customer is always right, eh?) so then why is all the development at 100w and up?

It certainly isn't because there's a lack of improvements needed. The istick revolutioned all right; auto firing, charging fires, melting insides, inaccurate displays, DIY 510 connection fixes, replacing 510 connections, pulling apart mods not meant to be pulled apart and the warrenty that doesn't really exist. Some legacy. It's sad if manufacturers view that as their competition and find it a challenge. There were lessons to learn from the public's quick adoption - that not everyone was lusting for bigger, the MTL market was real, half of vapors are women and they spend money too, lots of men like things that women place a priority on (pocketability, simplicity), color (red and blue out sold black and silver in the group buys I saw), ergonomic design .... just a few. The market was hungry for some new thinking. It still is.

People were burned by the istick and even more by eleaf's response. The only reason they still sell is due to lack of competition. That's not something to be proud of. The average vaper had been ignored.

The iStick has lots of competition. Check out Kat's spreadsheet again. The original iSticks were problematic. The 50W has also had its problems. I have seen no major complaints about the 30W however. I love mine. It's my ADV and works well with every atty I own, the way I vape. Don't want to take a chance on the iStick 50W? Get the new eVic-VT. It's available for $53. There are options out there. But until the inevitable regulations and legislation is settled, no one is going to invest a lot of resources into an industry that could be decimated in a few months. None of these manufacturers are not-for-profit.

 

[aikanae1]

The iStick has lots of competition. Check out Kat's spreadsheet again. The original iSticks were problematic. The 50W has also had its problems. I have seen no major complaints about the 30W however. I love mine. It's my ADV and works well with every atty I own, the way I vape. Don't want to take a chance on the iStick 50W? Get the new eVic-VT. It's available for $53. There are options out there. But until the inevitable regulations and legislation is settled, no one is going to invest a lot of resources into an industry that could be decimated in a few months. None of these manufacturers are not-for-profit.

No it doesn't have competition. Most of those are even more faulty than the istick. Same with the Evic. It's ugly and $73 with wrap, add more $ to cover the tank. That's an opportunity wasted. There is quite a bit of potential for profit since 90% of the products are competiting for < 30% of the market. Anyone vaping < 30w needs step down and how many have that? 2, maybe 3 out of a field of 60? How many are going to experience improvement from TC? Yet using other metals creates more untested safety questions.

I've said enough to last awhile. I expect people to have a difference of opinion since obviously mods are selling. That's cool. To each their own. It just would be nice if someone focused on fixing the current tech before jumping off into something new.

 

[Katdarling]

Mamma mia, alden and aik! You two have been on a roll, and a delicious one at that! Thoughtful, pertinent, enjoyable, and interesting posts all over these last two pages. Well done, both of you, and huge thanks for giving voice to all of our thoughts.

poke, DPL and I are now both back on the hesitating side of the fence about the CF4. Of course,,,,,, <ahem, I am woman> that could change tomorrow.

Thank you guys for always posting the deals tho. It's good for future reference.

Attention Kat and I think DP. VapeNW has the coolfire in purple in stock. $39.99

Sweet-Vapes also has it for 37.95

Preferences vary so greatly, it's probably best that manufacturers keep things simple, charge less and allow us to add bling ourselves in whatever way we want. Just my

I KNEW I'd get ya to bling one of these days!!!

Yes about the zero development. I really think that 95% vape below 30w.

Edit: yes, I understand the production cost factor, but what is the cost and I would consider it...quikly. I have used Jwraps, but they aren't cheap and they are not permanent at all.

Another ECF'er and I were just discussing this. Jwraps are beautiful, no doubt, but yes, they (most any wrap) does add to the cost of the device, and is normally less "permanent" than the mod itself. I think that's why the mod condoms (the blobs) became increasingly popular. I know I got some for the 'Sticks for a dollah and fifteen cents.

aik, like you, I really don't always love being a first adopter. I get much benefit from actual user perspectives. I'm a little konfused tho. You're disappointed in with the fixed batt devices...... I'm pretty sure the CF4 a fixed batt.

And yes, as you said, "A permanent mod, backed by the manufacturer with some sort of service if things go wonky or upgrades - which is to be expected with innovation, a brilliant innovative ergonomic unique design, would be worth it's weight in gold. One thing counterfietters can't copy is service."

Ergo, Provari. And with their ongoing sales, they fit our price range.

oh alden, my poor little baby spreadsheet has gone thru the vaper wars since it went public. The last I checked, it was quite a mess, and I don't have the "umphh" to put it back together. I do wish it weren't so, but alas.


But to konklude on a happier note, my tears have dried, my frown has turned upside down, and I am soon to be the proud as a "peacock" (black waves/black carbon) owner of a new PocketMod Defender!! Kent, you're beaming with pride, aintcha hon.

 

[Katdarling]

It just would be nice if someone focused on fixing the current tech before jumping off into something new.

"Three new mods appear on the scene between meals."

 

[aikanae1]

I agree with you. Vaping ain't easy. It's a huge compromise. We have to balance our desires with our resources. There are options out there but at much higher price points. The 20W, Evolv powered, iTaste SVD 2.0 can be had for less than $50. There are always Provaris, Dicodes, the SXMinis and one of many high quality, bespoke mods available on the market. We can have practically anything we want right now as long as we're willing to pay for it.

My vaping devices are not fashion statements, as the cigarettes I used to smoke were not. I will take form, function, value, quality and durability over fashion every day. If I thought I could, I wouldn't be vaping either. I vape to not smoke, not because I love to vape.

Nothing is permanent. The $1k new flat screen is not permanent. That $30k new car is not permanent. Electronic and mechanical devices will simply wear out, especially with the abuse humans inflict. If I want shirts that fit me, I have to spend a lot of money tailoring something off the rack, usually at a cost higher than the shirt itself. I can always get something bespoke, if I'm willing to pay for it. We purchase very expensive homes and alter them with paint, wallpaper, furnishings, landscaping, etc in order to tailor them to our liking. Why not expect the same with mods? Mass manufacturers can't cater to every individual's tastes, needs or desires. If we want to satisfy all of our whims, we should expect to spend the money on something custom.

Devices less than $50 are probably best made to be disposable. After a warranty has expired, neither of us would want to pay to have it fixed. The labor alone could be more than the cost of a new device. "Local" authorized service/warranty centers would be incredible but probably add 50% (or more) to the cost of hardware. Most vapers have voted with their wallets. They don't want to pay a lot for this gear. I certainly don't want to have to pay $45-50 for a 30W iStick.

I truly believe that legitimate questions about looming regulations and legislation are greatly affecting and stifling the industry. As long as the FDA and legislators don't mess things up royally, I believe we will see more varied choices in the coming months and years. Innokin will release something similar to the CF4 with a replaceable battery. Many more businesses will pop up to support vapers. But we need to figure out what vaping is to us and also set our expectations appropriately. Are we simply not wanting to smoke? In that case a couple of 30W iSticks with Nautilus Minis, GS Airs, Kayfuns, Lemos, Magmas, Dillingers, etc should be more than sufficient for most. Anything else is really icing on the cake and we should expect to pay a great deal for it. Prefer the Lincoln MKZ to the Ford Fiesta? Be prepared to pay for it. Just my .

Good luck with your new Cool Fire 4! Let us know what you think of it.

I draw very different conclusions. It's FDA regulations that are pushing me to look for things that have a longer lifespan than 3 months and durability. Yes I would consider paying $100+ for a 50w device that was well made and serviceable in the states. I do expect product design (form) to be equal to function and get a bit testy when I'm forced to compromise. Guarenteed a compromised device won't be something I love using. It must feel comfortable and I have to carry it around with me. I will change batteries 4x/day if needed. I have to put it in my purse since I don't vape sitting in front of a computer all day. A good share of vapers have grey hair and that equals hand and eye issues. I hate to say it, but this "more power" and "huge vapor" stuff does smell like marketing to < 25 year old crowd since a lot of lungs with 30+ years of smoking don't handle that so well.

 

[gandymarsh]

...and I'm learning new words today, or are they old words? Earlier today I had to look up "cloying". Never heard that before. Just now I had to look up "bespoke".

At least I'm increasing my vocabulary

 

[aikanae1]

Mamma mia, alden and aik! You two have been on a roll, and a delicious one at that! Thoughtful, pertinent, enjoyable, and interesting posts all over these last two pages. Well done, both of you, and huge thanks for giving voice to all of our thoughts.

poke, DPL and I are now both back on the hesitating side of the fence about the CF4. Of course,,,,,, <ahem, I am woman> that could change tomorrow.

Thank you guys for always posting the deals tho. It's good for future reference.

I KNEW I'd get ya to bling one of these days!!!

Another ECF'er and I were just discussing this. Jwraps are beautiful, no doubt, but yes, they (most any wrap) does add to the cost of the device, and is normally less "permanent" than the mod itself. I think that's why the mod condoms (the blobs) became increasingly popular. I know I got some for the 'Sticks for a dollah and fifteen cents.

aik, like you, I really don't always love being a first adopter. I get much benefit from actual user perspectives. I'm a little konfused tho. You're disappointed in with the fixed batt devices...... I'm pretty sure the CF4 a fixed batt.

And yes, as you said, "A permanent mod, backed by the manufacturer with some sort of service if things go wonky or upgrades - which is to be expected with innovation, a brilliant innovative ergonomic unique design, would be worth it's weight in gold. One thing counterfietters can't copy is service."

Ergo, Provari. And with their ongoing sales, they fit our price range.

oh alden, my poor little baby spreadsheet has gone thru the vaper wars since it went public. The last I checked, it was quite a mess, and I don't have the "umphh" to put it back together. I do wish it weren't so, but alas.


But to konklude on a happier note, my tears have dried, my frown has turned upside down, and I am soon to be the proud as a "peacock" (black waves/black carbon) owner of a new PocketMod Defender!! Kent, you're beaming with pride, aintcha hon.

I am libra, I guess. I enjoy debates as long as they don't get personal and they aren't meant to be personal. I do end up changing my mind a lot.

CF4 is replacing isticks. Portable, not permanent. I am banking on Innokins history with the MVP and so far, first observations is that it's a quality device. The fact it's an interesting form that is also finished well saves $20 right off the top. That makes it high value. I LOVE the manual on/off switch. Such a simple thing that brings huge peace of mind. The auto firing thing is downright frightening and I'm not happy about overlooking it or compensating for it. But then, I've survived a house fire caused by a laptop battery so that stuff happens.

Adding to my provari collection is an option. I've literally prayed provape would introduce a little box mod. REO has been on the top of the list too. I'm saddened that the industry hasn't come any farther, I guess. I'm not asking for anything more than I tend to look for in other tech devices once I find something I want to invest in. I do keep good phones forever, and computers, audio equip, etc.

 

[aikanae1]

The iStick has lots of competition. Check out Kat's spreadsheet again. The original iSticks were problematic. The 50W has also had its problems. I have seen no major complaints about the 30W however. I love mine. It's my ADV and works well with every atty I own, the way I vape. Don't want to take a chance on the iStick 50W? Get the new eVic-VT. It's available for $53. There are options out there. But until the inevitable regulations and legislation is settled, no one is going to invest a lot of resources into an industry that could be decimated in a few months. None of these manufacturers are not-for-profit.

30w and 50w isticks have step down. IPV4 does and so does IPV 30w. Egrip does. Kbox and Subox and CF4 do. I'm not sure about the defender. I think that's about it out of a field of over 60. The rest don't offer vaping under 30w's, yet most vapers don't vape more than 30w's???

 

[aldenf]

I draw very different conclusions. It's FDA regulations that are pushing me to look for things that have a longer lifespan than 3 months and durability. Yes I would consider paying $100+ for a 50w device that was well made and serviceable in the states. I do expect product design (form) to be equal to function and get a bit testy when I'm forced to compromise. Guarenteed a compromised device won't be something I love using. It must feel comfortable and I have to carry it around with me. I will change batteries 4x/day if needed. I have to put it in my purse since I don't vape sitting in front of a computer all day. A good share of vapers have grey hair and that equals hand and eye issues. I hate to say it, but this "more power" and "huge vapor" stuff does smell like marketing to < 25 year old crowd since a lot of lungs with 30+ years of smoking don't handle that so well.

Boy, do I hear you! I'm in the same situation. Fearing the vapeocalypse, I would like to find two 50W mods that buck to 1V, with easily replaceable batteries of a quality to last 2 or 3 years. I'd spend $100 each for them. I'd love for them to be a form-factor of my liking. I haven't purchased any hardware since January because nothing has grabbed me beyond simple curiosity. There is little innovation happening at the moment. That's the catch 22. Fear of the vapeocalypse is driving many vapers to do just what we're doing. The same fear is preventing manufacturers from investing resources in R&D and innovation. Where is all the quality hardware in the $75-125 mid range?

We're all in this together, aikanae1. Vapers started this entire alternative to smoking together. And together, we'll get through it. I am not going back to smoking cigarettes. I can't. If I have to start making mods in my workshop and selling them on a black market, I'll do it. Who in he|| do the FDA and legislators think they are?

 

[Oregon Linda]

But until the inevitable regulations and legislation is settled, no one is going to invest a lot of resources into an industry that could be decimated in a few months. None of these manufacturers are not-for-profit.

I can well understand that from the manufacturer's perspective. From my perspective, I'm with aikanae1 in not wanting to invest in any more mods that don't have replaceable batteries.

I've decided that my vapocalypse strategy - besides having plenty of nic in the freezer - is investing in a number of replaceable battery mods that I can just set aside and store until needed. I love my iStick 30w, but I just can't see buying a bunch of them for storage, knowing that batteries deteriorate, whether used or not.

I recently got a Kbox for $15.95. I thought I would hate it because it doesn't have a lot of choice in wattages. But it turns out to feel like a very solid device and I get a great vape at 8 or 13W. So I might buy several more. I also love my SVD 2.0. Made by Innokin, so is very solid. I've been making a list of other 50w and under mods that use replaceable batteries to investigate and possibly put into vapolcalypse storage. But I doubt I'll be buying any more mods that don't have replaceable batteries, no matter how much I like their looks.

 

[aikanae1]

I've actually collected parts. FT has fat daddy's now.

I'm not seeing lack of innovation so much. The industry went from almost every mod having step down to very few having it. So who is their target market when it's not the average vaper? TC's main value is to prevent coils from burning at high wattage, 70w-100w, not your average range.

 

[tearose50]

"Where is all the quality hardware in the $75-125 mid range?"

Do I dare say it --- on the sale pages of that P word place, or the classies.

Sure, I shop and have fun with the itty bittys, but have zero regrets on expanding my Provi collection. They simply fit my vaping style -- and the reliability really is amazing.

 

[aldenf]

30w and 50w isticks have step down. IPV4 does and so does IPV 30w. Egrip does. Kbox and Subox and CF4 do. I'm not sure about the defender. I think that's about it out of a field of over 60. The rest don't offer vaping under 30w's, yet most vapers don't vape more than 30w's???

Stating that many mods don't allow vaping below 30W is an overstatement. 1.5Ω @ 3.7V is 9W; 4V-10.6W. All the devices using Yihi's SX130 chipset step down to 3V. So the iPV Mini 30W and add Sigelei's Mini 30W to the list. Maybe there are more... The Heatvape Defender and Invader Mini both step down to 1V. HCigar's HB Mini 30W bucks to 1.1V. The iTaste SVD 2.0 steps down to 2V and is an affordable alternative to a Provari. Both MVP 3.0s buck to 3V, the MVP 20W to 3.3V. The Aspire ESP also bucks, but how low I don't know. The DOVPO Mini E-LVT & DT-50 buck to 1V. All DNA 40 devices buck to 1V and are very solid in VW mode. All variants of Yihi's SX350 chipsets buck to 1V. I would guess that 40% of vapers are still using twists/spinners and 15W devices that all buck or cig-alikes...

Hope this helps...

 

[aldenf]

I've actually collected parts. FT has fat daddy's now.

I'm not seeing lack of innovation so much. The industry went from almost every mod having step down to very few having it. So who is their target market when it's not the average vaper? TC's main value is to prevent coils from burning at high wattage, 70w-100w, not your average range.

You've never had a dry or burnt hit with an EVOD on a spinner at 8W? I have. That's what TC is meant to prevent.

 

[aldenf]

"Where is all the quality hardware in the $75-125 mid range?"

Do I dare say it --- on the sale pages of that P word place, or the classies.

Sure, I shop and have fun with the itty bittys, but have zero regrets on expanding my Provi collection. They simply fit my vaping style -- and the reliability really is amazing.

If they output 30W, I think they'd sell a bunch more. Provaris are the gold standard in mass produced APVs in my book.

 

[tearose50]

I actually think TC was developed for more than that, AK...... But, it seems even the lowest temperatures are similar to 15-20 watts. It is "a whole nuther animal" in this vaping evolution and one that is sparking the interest of many vaping enthusiasts.

On the ProVi and 30 watts --- that seems to be the mantra of some......but many of these are chasing the 60 and 100 watt mods. Some have suggested Prov make an 18650 version of the P3 only to insure someone doesn't try 30 watts (or more) with an 18350 battery (with not enough amps or something) as some surely would. They also just came out with an update that allows lower ohms that will make it work better with some of the subtanks.

But it seems the vaping world is mostly now all about Boxes -- rounded, square, bricks, itty bittys. Kind of funny as my first mod was a box...and a few after that, too. I only drifted to tube mods after trading a popular box for my first provi. Now I use both.

 

[Kent C]

I can well understand that from the manufacturer's perspective. From my perspective, I'm with aikanae1 in not wanting to invest in any more mods that don't have replaceable batteries.

I've decided that my vapocalypse strategy - besides having plenty of nic in the freezer - is investing in a number of replaceable battery mods that I can just set aside and store until needed. I love my iStick 30w, but I just can't see buying a bunch of them for storage, knowing that batteries deteriorate, whether used or not.

I recently got a Kbox for $15.95. I thought I would hate it because it doesn't have a lot of choice in wattages. But it turns out to feel like a very solid device and I get a great vape at 8 or 13W. So I might buy several more. I also love my SVD 2.0. Made by Innokin, so is very solid. I've been making a list of other 50w and under mods that use replaceable batteries to investigate and possibly put into vapolcalypse storage. But I doubt I'll be buying any more mods that don't have replaceable batteries, no matter how much I like their looks.

We're on the same boat and it isn't the Titanic :- ) I'd love to be able to buy Defenders forever, but now with (so far) a satisfactory experience with the Subox that feels nearly the same in my hand - both rounded - subox a bit more hefty but not that noticeable. I'll likely buy 3 more Subox (me and DW) and that will be it on replaceable mods - I also have the Invader Mini... And then just buy Defenders until they're either banned and restricted or too costly. That one video on the Defender, also holds out hope of being able to replace the batt: (about 15min. in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFnulm0Sdp0

 

[aikanae1]

Stating that many mods don't allow vaping below 30W is an overstatement. 1.5Ω @ 3.7V is 9W; 4V-10.6W. All the devices using Yihi's SX130 chipset step down to 3V. So the iPV Mini 30W and add Sigelei's Mini 30W to the list. Maybe there are more... The Heatvape Defender and Invader Mini both step down to 1V. HCigar's HB Mini 30W bucks to 1.1V. The iTaste SVD 2.0 steps down to 2V and is an affordable alternative to a Provari. Both MVP 3.0s buck to 3V, the MVP 20W to 3.3V. The Aspire ESP also bucks, but how low I don't know. The DOVPO Mini E-LVT & DT-50 buck to 1V. All DNA 40 devices buck to 1V and are very solid in VW mode. All variants of Yihi's SX350 chipsets buck to 1V. I would guess that 40% of vapers are still using twists/spinners and 15W devices that all buck or cig-alikes...

Hope this helps...

Some of those I didn't include because I don't consider them in this current "wave" like Spinners, etc. I'd have to look up the details again but IPV2 mini does not step down. There's a few more that surprised me when actually metered.

 

[aldenf]

Some of those I didn't include because I don't consider them in this current "wave" like Spinners, etc. I'd have to look up the details again but IPV2 mini does not step down. There's a few more that surprised me when actually metered.

You're right. The 70W iPV Mini 2 does not buck but the original does. I don't want to include spinners either. I ain't going back to that!

 

[Katdarling]

I just posted in another thread. I had a bunch of multi quotes. I think some of them belonged here.

Someone please tell me to stop multi-tasking.

So now, whomever it was I meant to quote, just use your imagine and pretend that I actually said something to you.