The phrase we use at work, selecting products, is "fit for intended use". Is an item suitable given the reasonably anticipated user knowledge and likely operating conditions?
Local NW Floridian with severe injuries from exploding ecig battery
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i can agree with this, but it seems that nobody wants to take accountability, manufacturer or otherwise, due to the few details we have on the story neither can be known for sure, for all we know the manufacturer is already on this case, or the user has taken the blame, we don't know for sure, but at the same time, i consider my mod to be "reasonably" safe. you cant expect a 20$ tube to be as safe as a 120$ tube, that's just not the way it works, the more money the manufacturer charges, the more features you are likely to get. this may just be me, but i believe that once the end user has the product, outside of dumb luck or "murphy's law" the end user needs to take some responsibility for what happens/how the product is used and or abused. i apreciate your viewpoint here SJ and i apreciate the knowledge that roly contributes. but the bottom line is nothing is safe, use your head, and take some responsibility. if you buy a 3$ battery and it explodes in your face, and the manufacturer recomended the 10$ battery, who's fault is it that the mod exploded? the consumer can't expect the manufacturer to hold their hand. in my opinion i think that is why the government feels the need to hold everyones hand. because noobody wants to be responsible for their own actions/decisions any more.
edited for clarity. hope talking back to the big boss doesnt get me in trouble =(
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With no prior knowledge of any problems, the average consumer has no reason to question the safety of a device offered for sale. Except for maybe firearms. With no active recall mechanism for any of the e-cig components from juice to cartos, participation in a forum like this one is the only way to keep up on new developments.
But that's where the twist comes in. Where do people find the new fangled super duper mod? Right here for one. They follow the guidance of their peers, searching for the perfect e-juice, or the sweet spot with voltage. Their peers brag about vaping some really ridiculously high voltage with low resistance attys and cartos, and how great this is.
That makes people unhappy with their current vape. The idea "I want to try High Voltage" posts you see from people comes from where? Again, right here. Boosters, buckers, stacked battery mods is where it's at in the e-cig market place. Why? You saw it here.
Do they know anything about the technology, the real safety aspects of the bright shiny bauble they saw at a vendors site, or on a you tube review? Not necessary. No IQ test required. Just a charge card.
But that's where the twist comes in. Where do people find the new fangled super duper mod? Right here for one. They follow the guidance of their peers, searching for the perfect e-juice, or the sweet spot with voltage. Their peers brag about vaping some really ridiculously high voltage with low resistance attys and cartos, and how great this is.
That makes people unhappy with their current vape. The idea "I want to try High Voltage" posts you see from people comes from where? Again, right here. Boosters, buckers, stacked battery mods is where it's at in the e-cig market place. Why? You saw it here.
Do they know anything about the technology, the real safety aspects of the bright shiny bauble they saw at a vendors site, or on a you tube review? Not necessary. No IQ test required. Just a charge card.
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i suppose, i guess due diligence is something that not many people do. i for one, always research before i buy.
Although I don't ALWAYS agree about the price thing, what's stated here is entirely true. I thank you for having this view point. Misuse of anything is always bad.
Batsu,
I agree. Way to go.
But take for example someone that doesn't spend a lot of time here in ECF. Stumbles on a vendor site, does a google search, or watches a lot of you tube. Their first step is probably going to be a Free Trial offer (Thank You Google). Then the next will be the model with the best hype.
You may know how to do online research, but (I'm gonna catch flack about this one) most people don't.
If they did, then the Free Trial companies would have gone out of business long ago.
Many of the people that need to be reading this are watching you tube videos showing tons of sweet spot vapor.
I agree. Way to go.
But take for example someone that doesn't spend a lot of time here in ECF. Stumbles on a vendor site, does a google search, or watches a lot of you tube. Their first step is probably going to be a Free Trial offer (Thank You Google). Then the next will be the model with the best hype.
You may know how to do online research, but (I'm gonna catch flack about this one) most people don't.
If they did, then the Free Trial companies would have gone out of business long ago.
Many of the people that need to be reading this are watching you tube videos showing tons of sweet spot vapor.
There's some OK ones, and some not OK ones.
The problem with Trustfire and Ultrafire is they're heavily cloned and some are just re-rapped used batteries from laptop computers. Kinda like the Ego name and how it's so heavily cloned. Problem is it's hard to tell the clones apart.
And it's not just chargers but also the batteries and flashlights too. Here's a couple links about cloned (used) batteries;
Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning
Ultrafire 16340 WTF?
Ultrafire batteries directly from the source?
Which one is better - Ultrafire or Trustfire?
Ultrafire 16340 WTF?
LE Question on batteries & Charger - 18650
For a comparison here's a good link with many good quality brand batteries and a few duds;
2012 Battery test/review summary
Batteries and chargers
18650 battery test 2011
Thank You, That's an answer I can wrap my head around.
I know you guy's got it going on, especially the engineer there, but sometimes you lose me in the terminology.
I did , However that when i bought the Ultrafire-XSL 18650 that I was buying a good safer battery.
so I'm still derped.
Rocketman brings up a good point.
Not everyone hangs out in a forum like this, nor are they anywhere near as knowledgeable as most here are about the purchase and use of PV's.
That's why I really feel a lot more information needs to be released to the public, mostly for the sake of new users who have no clue what they're buying and using.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Something just aint' right here.
Where's the specific info about this whole thing? Why all the secrecy about this particular event?
I figure at this point, lawyers are probably somehow involved.
Yeah, by all means, lets make some major bucks off of this thing, and at the same time, let's leave everyone in the dark as to exactly what happened.
Sure, I'm once again pulling this out of my ..... But my speculation wouldn't surprise me one bit at this point.
Not everyone hangs out in a forum like this, nor are they anywhere near as knowledgeable as most here are about the purchase and use of PV's.
That's why I really feel a lot more information needs to be released to the public, mostly for the sake of new users who have no clue what they're buying and using.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Something just aint' right here.
Where's the specific info about this whole thing? Why all the secrecy about this particular event?
I figure at this point, lawyers are probably somehow involved.
Yeah, by all means, lets make some major bucks off of this thing, and at the same time, let's leave everyone in the dark as to exactly what happened.
Sure, I'm once again pulling this out of my ..... But my speculation wouldn't surprise me one bit at this point.
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Actually to be honest, in this industry, cost is not reflective of safety features. Last month a cheap china mod caught fire and an expensive American made one blew up in someones face. There are a lot of high end mechanical mods that do not meet ECF's new recommendation of three milled gas vent slots.
Thank You again. Now I really feel better.
MY ULTRAFIRES DON'T EVEN LOOK LIKE THE EXAMPLE SHOWN.
How do you spell scream?
It's looking more and more like it's just all about money, as usual. Where is the "friend" or neighbor of Tom who first posted in this forum.............he's disappeared, Tom isn't talking, even though he's been home for awhile now. and it's very obvious all of us here are clamoring for some accurate information. Only conclusion is lawyers got involved and have gagged everyone, so that there can be a lawsuit and damages awarded. Isn't that the way of the world? It's really a damn shame that no one is giving any thought to helping others/preventing another mishap or even trying to, by offering information. So we will continue to speculate until the cows come home............
Some preventive measures I use to mitigate MOD and/or Li-ion or IMR battery failure:
1. Use only the best charger and batteries available. For me it's the proper Pila charger and AW brand batteries.
2. Once charging is complete I immediately remove the battery from the charger.
3. I Never leave charging batteries unattended.
4. I Always measure the battery voltage after charging with a voltmeter. Measured voltage should not be above 4.2 volts! I'm very happy if I measure between 4.1 and 4.2V.
5. I Never drain the 3.7V battery below 3.5V.
6. I Never use the same battery immediately after charging! (should have spare batteries to use).
7. If the battery starts to show unusual degraded performance over months of use then I don't use it anymore.
8. I charge the batteries in my mods after a days usage or sooner if I notice degradation in performance.
9. I try to use more than one mod during the day, when possible, so not to overheat the mod or battery.
10. Try to minimize the use of MODS that require stacked batteries, especially in metal tubes that are not vented properly.
I may have left out some other things but those are what comes to mind.
Vape on everyone but do it as safely as possible.
1. Use only the best charger and batteries available. For me it's the proper Pila charger and AW brand batteries.
2. Once charging is complete I immediately remove the battery from the charger.
3. I Never leave charging batteries unattended.
4. I Always measure the battery voltage after charging with a voltmeter. Measured voltage should not be above 4.2 volts! I'm very happy if I measure between 4.1 and 4.2V.
5. I Never drain the 3.7V battery below 3.5V.
6. I Never use the same battery immediately after charging! (should have spare batteries to use).
7. If the battery starts to show unusual degraded performance over months of use then I don't use it anymore.
8. I charge the batteries in my mods after a days usage or sooner if I notice degradation in performance.
9. I try to use more than one mod during the day, when possible, so not to overheat the mod or battery.
10. Try to minimize the use of MODS that require stacked batteries, especially in metal tubes that are not vented properly.
I may have left out some other things but those are what comes to mind.
Vape on everyone but do it as safely as possible.
This is true. In fact there are none, so far as I can see.
I think it's bad news when other people are having to tell the industry how to make their products - but that's the crazy world of vaping.
Whatever the reason for the delay, I hope, in the interest of safety that some info is released before March. It would be a real shame for just one more individual to be injured because of some ulterior financial motive.
Does this mean there will be a re-examining of ECF approved vendors that sell mods?
Maybe a white list of vendors and a black list of vendors.
Vendors will adapt. ECF has too big an audience to pass up.
Mods will go under the counter. You will have to ask for them or have an account to view them on the vendors site. PM traffic will go off the charts.
Supplier affiliates will be the norm for mod sales. Customers will learn that it just takes an extra click or two to see the 'Good Stuff'.
Sales for the cheapo kits will spike for a while. Hopefully in the long run, safer stuff will hit the market.
Then we can shift back to e-juice for a while.
Vendors will adapt. ECF has too big an audience to pass up.
Mods will go under the counter. You will have to ask for them or have an account to view them on the vendors site. PM traffic will go off the charts.
Supplier affiliates will be the norm for mod sales. Customers will learn that it just takes an extra click or two to see the 'Good Stuff'.
Sales for the cheapo kits will spike for a while. Hopefully in the long run, safer stuff will hit the market.
Then we can shift back to e-juice for a while.
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I'm sure it's been mentioned before but I haven't read all 55 pages of this thread, but we stack batteries in devices all the time. Namely flashlights. Some are vented some are not. And anyone who uses a big stacked 2xD battery flashlight on a regular basis usually uses it in longer intervals than we vape. Flashlights are on and off, and constantly using power (around 3v). Flashlights have exploded too. Regular AA rechargeable duracell batteries have exploded in their chargers before, that's why there are a ton of warnings on rechargeable batteries and chargers.
This kind of disaster can happen with any battery, in any device at any time. It's simply a mechanical failure. We take the same risk of exploding batteries every time we play a portable game console, put a laptop on our laps, or put a cell phone up to our heads. All batteries, especially lithium rechargeable batteries, are succeptable to failure. Sure there are measures used to protect our batteries and devices, but stuff happens. There have been posts on ECF of people who deliberately blew up their batteries to illustrate that fact.
Take care everyone and be safe!
This kind of disaster can happen with any battery, in any device at any time. It's simply a mechanical failure. We take the same risk of exploding batteries every time we play a portable game console, put a laptop on our laps, or put a cell phone up to our heads. All batteries, especially lithium rechargeable batteries, are succeptable to failure. Sure there are measures used to protect our batteries and devices, but stuff happens. There have been posts on ECF of people who deliberately blew up their batteries to illustrate that fact.
Take care everyone and be safe!
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