Looking for a single 21700 mech with specific features

[bombastinator]

I don't think I'm going to be able to go along with you on this.

of course not. Wishful thinking and “we don neeed no steeenking laws of physics” rule the world these days.

Never has their been more reliable sources for known good and genuine oem batteries. That's number one.

no it isn’t. The problem is old designs with new batteries. Doesn’t matter if they’re OEM or not.
New batteries have hybrid chemistries and better internal design but they also have a lot more joules in them. Old mechs were designed for safety through containment. There are just too many joules now. Containment no longer works. And when containment fails the problems multiply.

Number two would be that there are also now several models of round lithium ion batteries in the sizes we use, that are routinely Mooch rated between 25 and 30 amps cdr, with a couple 21700 landing at 35 amps.

yup. Maybe you should also listen to the REST of Mooch’s comments on this stuff. A dead short is still a dead short. Also a button held down is still a button held down. Now look at the mah on those batteries. They’re twice what they were in 2008. More joules.

Long gone are the days when the venerable, but now only moderately muscular 25R was the pinnacle of battery performance for mech users.

Yep. Again, it’s not the drain, it’s the mah when the drain is exceeded. Harder is still not impossible

For a conscientious and responsible mech head, batteries have never been safer.

That’s... just false.

 

[bombastinator]

I don't see it either and as dangerous as people like to say they are, the dangers themselves are some of the easiest to mitigate. It's like trying to diagnose a fault in a pure mechanical car vs. trying to diagnose a Tesla, in a mech mod everything is right there in front of you and using/maintaining/fixing is right before your eyes. I still remember having "NO ATOMISER DETECTED" on my Predator 220w mod which I couldn't figure out for the life of me why, only to find out that the connector pin in the mod was busted, and since I was so new to vaping at the time there was no way I'd have thought that a new mod would have that kind of problem (not to mention the error message is so damn vague).

There’s a new show on Netflix about car restorers. One of the vehicles they do is a 1941 military truck. Simplest vehicle ever. You know one thing it was too simple for? Fuses. The fire they wind up starting because of this is fairly entertaining.

 

[escapetovape]

There’s a new show on Netflix about car restorers. One of the vehicles they do is a 1941 military truck. Simplest vehicle ever. You know one thing it was too simple for? Fuses. The fire they wind up starting because of this is fairly entertaining.

I'll see if I can get it down-under...but we seem to have our Netflix throttled majorly by comparison to you guys.

 

[bombastinator]

I'll see if I can get it down-under...but we seem to have our Netflix throttled majorly by comparison to you guys.

Yeah, Netflix varies by country. A lot. No one country gets everything. The show was Canadian. Rust something-or-other

 

[Electrodave]

A joule is a measure of charge. How many electrons are in one place at any one time. Are you telling me that my new 18650 2200mAh batteries are carrying a greater charge than the 2200mAh batteries that I was buying five years ago?

In five years, I've never had a safety issue with mechs. Observe battery safety, the way that regulated users should but rarely do, and don't get wacky with the resistance, and there should be no issues.

 

[Electrodave]

I think there's an attitude out there that all mech users are wild cloud chasers. Actually, a lot of us are tootle puffers. I rarely vape at over 20W, and usually less than that. That's why I've been experimenting with low voltage batteries. I'm a high resistance guy in a low resistance world.

 

[escapetovape]

Why a mech? The whole reason you’re carrying so many batteries is mechs aren’t efficient users of battery. “Hard hitting” is a myth. What a “hard hit” really is is a high wattage hit. Mechs have variable decreasing wattage so the first hit is always the “hardest”. Just get something that maintains real wattage.

I just realised, if OP was hell bent on his requirements (and I'm being very sincere in this) he could always make his own. Get a mini lathe (damn I cringe whenever I see one), buy some bar stock (copper or brass would be easier to machine), and he can turn the tube itself, cut the screw threads for the 510, and find his favourite screw in button to complete the circuit and HEY PRESTO.

 

[gsmit1]

of course not. Wishful thinking and “we don neeed no steeenking laws of physics” rule the world these days.
no it isn’t. The problem is old designs with new batteries. Doesn’t matter if they’re OEM or not.
New batteries have hybrid chemistries and better internal design but they also have a lot more joules in them. Old mechs were designed for safety through containment. There are just too many joules now. Containment no longer works. And when containment fails the problems multiply.
yup. Maybe you should also listen to the REST of Mooch’s comments on this stuff. A dead short is still a dead short. Also a button held down is still a button held down. Now look at the mah on those batteries. They’re twice what they were in 2008. More joules.
Yep. Again, it’s not the drain, it’s the mah when the drain is exceeded. Harder is still not impossible
That’s... just false.

I am a thoroughgoing student of Mooch, I assure you. Along with dozens of other sources of related and expert information.

If all you're really saying is that more powerful batteries create a more powerful problem when there is one, then fine.

If not, then we're probably talking past each other. A thing that I am not up to remedying at the moment.

 

[HigherStateD]

The issue I see is that a 25R would suffer much more voltage sag under a short circuit condition, and would vent far less gass than, say, a 30t under similar conditions.

 

[gsmit1]

The issue I see is that a 25R would suffer much more voltage sag under a short circuit condition, and would vent far less gass than, say, a 30t under similar conditions.

But a 25R, when you could get good genuine ones back then, is easier to get to vent than a 30 T because a 30T can take a lot more.

Building for a good 25R, when you didn't know you had a re-wrapped fake, was far more dangerous than responsibly building for a known good 30T.

 

[HigherStateD]

But a 25R, when you could get good genuine ones back then, is easier to get to vent than a 30 T because a 30T can take a lot more.

Building for a good 25R, when you didn't know you had a re-wrapped fake, was far more dangerous than responsibly building for a known good 30T.

Sure. But an improper build isn't the thing that keeps me up at night. A low build is far from the worst thing that a mech could do. Also, didn't the 25R still have a CID, where as new high drain cells lack that particular safety feature?

 

[bombastinator]

A joule is a measure of charge. How many electrons are in one place at any one time. Are you telling me that my new 18650 2200mAh batteries are carrying a greater charge than the 2200mAh batteries that I was buying five years ago?

me? No. I was talking 10 years ago when they were more like 1600mah and did so because they had less volatile chemistries. Now they’re often more like 3000mah. Also there’s the high drain low mah batteries that only have 2000mah capacities except that’s not the total of how much they actually have in them. It’s just how much they can get rid of safely. A Li battery holds more energy than it distributes.

In five years, I've never had a safety issue with mechs. Observe battery safety, the way that regulated users should but rarely do, and don't get wacky with the resistance, and there should be no issues.

Not this old argument again. “I haven’t experienced a problem myself (yet) so no problem can possibly exist”. There are numerous reasons this is garbage. It’s 3am though. Look up any of the other numerous times this issue came up for a proper dressing down. I’m tired.

 

[escapetovape]

I'll see if I can get it down-under...but we seem to have our Netflix throttled majorly by comparison to you guys.

Just switched on Netflix, and guess what was showing as the first show? Talk about a happy coincidence.

 

[bombastinator]

I am a thoroughgoing student of Mooch, I assure you. Along with dozens of other sources of related and expert information.

If all you're really saying is that more powerful batteries create a more powerful problem when there is one, then fine.

If not, then we're probably talking past each other. A thing that I am not up to remedying at the moment.

Nope that’s all I was saying, or most of it anyway. I was also pointing out that the “more powerful problem” has some repercussions that increase danger geometrically not linearly. When a containment case fails it explodes. Shrapnel and flaming lithium liquid. It’s an incindiary hand grenade. In the two known cases where this has killed people apparently the shrapnel was the actual killer. Pieces of flying case cutting arteries.

 

[bombastinator]

Just switched on Netflix, and guess what was showing as the first show? Talk about a happy coincidence.

My vague memory is it was episode 7. Note that the problem was minor in the end because the restoration was stock. The engine also was low compression, the engine bay was all metal, the wiring used was all original type, and there were no plastics at all. Unlike a modern engine bay. No rods could be thrown, no turbos could shatter, no plastics could melt or be set on fire. The engineers of the 1940s weren’t stupid. They were dealing with different equipment. Mechs are safe When they’re using the batteries they were designed for. The problem is those batteries are no longer made.

 

[escapetovape]

My vague memory is it was episode 7. Note that the problem was minor in the end because the restoration was stock and the engine also was low compression, the engine bay was all metal, the wiring used was all original type, and there were no plastics at all. Unlike a modern engine bay. The engineers of the 1940s weren’t stupid. They were dealing with different equipment. Mechs are safe When they’re using the batteries they were designed for. The problem is those batteries are no longer made.

I’ll give it a watch, so far so good.

And yes, the disparity between old and new and trying to merge the two can often lead to unintended results.

 

[Electrodave]

me? No. I was talking 10 years ago when they were more like 1600mah and did so because they had less volatile chemistries. Now they’re often more like 3000mah. Also there’s the high drain low mah batteries that only have 2000mah capacities except that’s not the total of how much they actually have in them. It’s just how much they can get rid of safely. A Li battery holds more energy than it distributes.

Not this old argument again. “I haven’t experienced a problem myself (yet) so no problem can possibly exist”. There are numerous reasons this is garbage. It’s 3am though. Look up any of the other numerous times this issue came up for a proper dressing down. I’m tired.

Where did I say that "no problem can possibly exist"? Putting words in my mouth doesn't make your argument stronger.

 

[Electrodave]

Nope that’s all I was saying, or most of it anyway. I was also pointing out that the “more powerful problem” has some repercussions that increase danger geometrically not linearly. When a containment case fails it explodes. Shrapnel and flaming lithium liquid. It’s an incindiary hand grenade. In the two known cases where this has killed people apparently the shrapnel was the actual killer. Pieces of flying case cutting arteries.

No, both of them were killed by the atties, which were blown clean out of their hybrid connectors.

 

[bombastinator]

Where did I say that "no problem can possibly exist"? Putting words in my mouth doesn't make your argument stronger.

The portion I quoted was
“In five years, I've never had a safety issue with mechs. Observe battery safety, the way that regulated users should but rarely do, and don't get wacky with the resistance, and there should be no issues.”
You want to say that’s not the meaning of what you said?

 

[bombastinator]

No, both of them were killed by the atties, which were blown clean out of their hybrid connectors.

I don’t remember the reports that way but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It’s a distinction without a difference though.

You want to make that point cite a source. I’m not taking your word for it. This is like the third time I’ve gotten push back from you on this topic using the same tired arguments.