I understood Roly's statement to be a joke about BT using chemicals to develop brand loyalty. Did I misunderstand? Does my statement make sense, now that you hear what I was thinking?
Lorillard purchases Blu E-Cigs
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I understood Roly's statement to be a joke about BT using chemicals to develop brand loyalty. Did I misunderstand? Does my statement make sense, now that you hear what I was thinking?
So I just reread the last couple of pages to make sure I was on track. A few days back when this thread began someone posted to Roly something along the lines of PLEEEEEASE dont sell out to BT. This came to mind when I interpreted his little smily face as a bit of "across the pond" humor. If I was mistaken I apologize to all having a serious conversation here. I am just as ...... as the rest of you at what myself and my family went thru over the past 17+ yrs due to my smoking.
We all tend to get deep into conversations where we just end up spinning wheels. I thought I was following his lead w a bit of comic relief. I have been part of this thread since its inception, and like many other similar threads its getting redundant, IMO.
The last thing I would ever want to hear was that this great cause that helped save my life, sold out. Figuratively and literally. So again if I offended anyone or was out of line please accept my apology.
Ken
The e-cigarette grass roots movement and the business of e-cigarettes
are obviously connected.
The grass roots movement .... Will never "sell out"
Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson 1743 - 1826
I was going to post this:
But as people seem to be taking this latest twist a bit too seriously, I won't. ECF is privately owned and is run as an independent resource, and as far as we know, always will be. None of it has been sold.
kwalka, you offended no one here as I can tell. A little laughter goes a long ways!
Marty
Marty
OK, I'll say it
Isn't it interesting how few of us are really that interested anymore
with finding and discussing the "run of the mill" articles suggesting
concerns about e-cigs ... after hearing Lorillard bought Blu
Edit:
For that matter even positive articles
Isn't it interesting how few of us are really that interested anymore
with finding and discussing the "run of the mill" articles suggesting
concerns about e-cigs ... after hearing Lorillard bought Blu
Edit:
For that matter even positive articles
Last edited:
All of the statements following my apology were the "ready set go part". You know how 1 little line tends to start a whole whirlwind.
Roly
As far as my thinking goes, ECF would never, and knows better than to ever consider such a ridiculous thought.
Roly
As far as my thinking goes, ECF would never, and knows better than to ever consider such a ridiculous thought.
I just posted a poll on the effect of Lorillard's purchase of Blu. You can vote for all the choices you think are applicable.
There's a solution to every problem
Reminds me of "The Godfather" movie
All the problems could be resolved if there was a "sit down"
meeting with all the BP and BT major families.
It would be pointed out that BP owns the FDA, the politicians,
and has the judges in their back pocket. It would be suggested
that BT will run the e-cig business. BT would make BP "an offer
they can't refuse" ... A large and lucrative "piece of the action"
BT will run the e-cigarette business and BP will supply protection.
BP would agree to call the FDA informing them "The Family"
would consider it to be a "personal favor" if they would ....-out.
Just business ... Nothing personal
Reminds me of "The Godfather" movie
All the problems could be resolved if there was a "sit down"
meeting with all the BP and BT major families.
It would be pointed out that BP owns the FDA, the politicians,
and has the judges in their back pocket. It would be suggested
that BT will run the e-cig business. BT would make BP "an offer
they can't refuse" ... A large and lucrative "piece of the action"
BT will run the e-cigarette business and BP will supply protection.
BP would agree to call the FDA informing them "The Family"
would consider it to be a "personal favor" if they would ....-out.
Just business ... Nothing personal
Well then:
1. Unsubscribe to this thread
2. Suggest it is closed and get a pile of votes to back you up
Before you close this thread, you need to hear this.
Thursday and Friday, I attended a workshop that was also attended by a research scientist from Lorillard and quite naturally I asked him about Blu. After he told me that Lorillard's most popular products are True and Newports, it made sense to me that the company would branch out into e-cigarettes. Think about it: the FDA could dry up half their profits in a heartbeat, just by outlawing menthol in cigarettes.
The scientist I spoke with told me that the Chairman of the Board, Murray S. Kessler, is very much in favor of Tobacco Harm Reduction. He conjectured that if Lorillard makes any changes whatsoever to the products, it would be to make them better.
He actually had read this string and he said that the idea that the company would add something to make the products "more addictive" was laughable.
I had to agree with him. With the FDA watching every move a tobacco company makes like a hawk, how could any tobacco company get away with such a trick?
He also assured me that Lorillard would fight to preserve the features that we consumers strongly believe help to make the products effective for us, including options for nicotine levels and flavors.
Thursday and Friday, I attended a workshop that was also attended by a research scientist from Lorillard and quite naturally I asked him about Blu. After he told me that Lorillard's most popular products are True and Newports, it made sense to me that the company would branch out into e-cigarettes. Think about it: the FDA could dry up half their profits in a heartbeat, just by outlawing menthol in cigarettes.
The scientist I spoke with told me that the Chairman of the Board, Murray S. Kessler, is very much in favor of Tobacco Harm Reduction. He conjectured that if Lorillard makes any changes whatsoever to the products, it would be to make them better.
He actually had read this string and he said that the idea that the company would add something to make the products "more addictive" was laughable.
I had to agree with him. With the FDA watching every move a tobacco company makes like a hawk, how could any tobacco company get away with such a trick?
He also assured me that Lorillard would fight to preserve the features that we consumers strongly believe help to make the products effective for us, including options for nicotine levels and flavors.
I among others was one of the members who specifically said that they would manipulate the juice in such a way. IMO, they would get away with such a trick the same way they get away with putting loaded guns in peoples hands daily. The same way that the aforementioned were able to put carpet glue in cigs while under the same scrutiny. Granted Blu will be under a diff microscope, which will make manipulation in such a fashion much harder. BT makes their money by selling products that interact with human brain chemistry to a degree that arguably only nature can compete with. It has been proven, and we all know this, that cigs are fine tuned to make it nearly impossible to just walk away from. Several years ago I went cold turkey from 2+ PAD, and for the 8 months I went w/o a smoke it was like I was missing part of myself. So, for a product that has that kind of power over the human brain, and is a death sentence at the same time, I find it laughable that MR K and his cronies find it hard to believe that we think they would do such a thing. Just because they see a new business model necessary, does not in any way make them any different than what they are. Only time will tell, if they want to play the good guys because they are getting pushed out of business, hopefully everybody else will play follow the leader.
Vocalek, I want to thank you for all you do for us. Once again you have come thru big with great input. My rant here in no way is directed toward you.
Vocalek, I want to thank you for all you do for us. Once again you have come thru big with great input. My rant here in no way is directed toward you.
Kwala: I understand what you are saying, because for the 6 months that I went smoke-free and nicotine free some 20+ years ago, I felt as though a big chunk of my sense of self-identity was missing. There is an alternate explanation for how you (and I) feel in the absence of nicotine.
Smoking: The Artificial Passion by David Krogh is out of print, but Amazon has both used copies and a Kindle version for sale: Amazon.com: Smoking: The Artificial Passion (9780716723479): David Krogh: Books
The book was written 20 years ago, and more research has been done. But none of the newer research contradicts the general principles he discusses: For many people, nicotine "normalizes" some imbalances in brain chemistry that cause mood disorders such as depression, and that affect cognitive abilities such as being able to concentrate and pay attention. In my case, antidepressant medication helped to alleviate the worst of my depressed feelings, but I couldn't help feeling a sense of loss about my inability to perform accurate work and as quickly as I once did. When I went back to smoking, my cognitive abilities returned. Continuing to take the antidepressant medication allowed me to get back to "normal" without going back to the quantity of cigarettes I had been smoking per day.
Krogh's book is written to be understandable by a lay person, and his writing style is very engaging. The Atlantic reviewed the book quite positively: The Atlantic | October 1991 | Addicted to "Getting Normal" | Kohn
Smoking: The Artificial Passion by David Krogh is out of print, but Amazon has both used copies and a Kindle version for sale: Amazon.com: Smoking: The Artificial Passion (9780716723479): David Krogh: Books
The book was written 20 years ago, and more research has been done. But none of the newer research contradicts the general principles he discusses: For many people, nicotine "normalizes" some imbalances in brain chemistry that cause mood disorders such as depression, and that affect cognitive abilities such as being able to concentrate and pay attention. In my case, antidepressant medication helped to alleviate the worst of my depressed feelings, but I couldn't help feeling a sense of loss about my inability to perform accurate work and as quickly as I once did. When I went back to smoking, my cognitive abilities returned. Continuing to take the antidepressant medication allowed me to get back to "normal" without going back to the quantity of cigarettes I had been smoking per day.
Krogh's book is written to be understandable by a lay person, and his writing style is very engaging. The Atlantic reviewed the book quite positively: The Atlantic | October 1991 | Addicted to "Getting Normal" | Kohn
Then again there are those who can go out partying and smoke a half a pack or more and then not smoke any for months with no affects. Not that I was one of those; but I've known a few.
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My wife is like that. We have 4 kids and every time she got pregnant she literally put them down. Luckily after our last she never picked them back up.
I now find the idea that the tobacco industry put in chemicals to make cigarettes more lethal laughable, too.
When will people realize that while the tobacco industry profits from us remaining repeat customers (as do most industries) the only industry that profits from us remaining addicted AND profits from us getting potentially deadly diseases from smoking is the pharmaceutical industry? And which industry has spent the past 25 years trying to convince us that the root of all evil is Big Tobacco, all the while their "quit or die" mantra was forcing us to be afraid of low-risk tobacco products and keep using their crappy NRTs, failing to quit, feeling guilty, being ostracized and vilified by society (with their funding to ANTZ) all to end up still dying as smokers and paying them for costly cancer and other treatments?
For the past 20 years, Big Pharma and its paid ANTZ shills have been just as guilty, in my opinion, of keeping us addicted to smoking and in harm's way as Big Tobacco - even worse because BT has tried to make safer products and BP has hid them from us and lied about them, all while making us feel guilty about not being able to quit using their NRT and turning smokers into the bottom feeders of society. Big Tobacco has done a lot of unethical things, but Big Pharma's tobacco/nicotine ethics makes Big Tobacco seem tame by comparison, IMO. It benefits Big Pharma the MOST to have smokers, vapers and the general public distrust BT and then they turn it around and use it against smokers and vapers. It wasn't Big Pharma that finally got my husband (who has sleep apnea, which is aggravated by smoking) to quit smoking, it was e-cigarettes and a smoke-free tobacco product (snus) that finally worked. I truly believe that BP/ANTZ wants us to distrust and hate BT so they can use that emotion to ban smoke-free alternatives and e-cigarettes and keep us smoking & using their NRT and treatments for smoking-related diseases. I wouldn't put anything past them.
Big Tobacco may have originally "made us slaves" to cigarettes, but Big Pharma secretly conspires to KEEP us slaves, while simultaneously claiming to be our savior from "evil BT" and then pay the ANTZ to make us into social pariahs because we are lowly slaves to our addiction. They basically took over a chunk of Big Tobacco's profits by selling us and the public their snake-oil and convincing us it was still Big Tobacco's fault we were still smoking. It's the biggest con job of all time and unfortunately, most of us are still buying it.
At this point, I trust BT a LOT more than I trust BP. Personally, I'm just not buying what they (BP/ANTZ) are selling anymore. If I still allowed myself to believe that everything made by BT was poison and deadly, as BP and the ANTZ want me to believe, my husband would still be smoking today. And who knows how much time we actually had before I woke up one morning and found out that he had stopped breathing one final time?
I guess my disgust, mistrust and resentment for Big Pharma and the ANTZ far surpassed what negative feelings I had for Big Tobacco about 3 years ago - when I started vaping and my eyes were opened to who the REAL enemy was.
(Sorry - my rant is over now.)
When will people realize that while the tobacco industry profits from us remaining repeat customers (as do most industries) the only industry that profits from us remaining addicted AND profits from us getting potentially deadly diseases from smoking is the pharmaceutical industry? And which industry has spent the past 25 years trying to convince us that the root of all evil is Big Tobacco, all the while their "quit or die" mantra was forcing us to be afraid of low-risk tobacco products and keep using their crappy NRTs, failing to quit, feeling guilty, being ostracized and vilified by society (with their funding to ANTZ) all to end up still dying as smokers and paying them for costly cancer and other treatments?
For the past 20 years, Big Pharma and its paid ANTZ shills have been just as guilty, in my opinion, of keeping us addicted to smoking and in harm's way as Big Tobacco - even worse because BT has tried to make safer products and BP has hid them from us and lied about them, all while making us feel guilty about not being able to quit using their NRT and turning smokers into the bottom feeders of society. Big Tobacco has done a lot of unethical things, but Big Pharma's tobacco/nicotine ethics makes Big Tobacco seem tame by comparison, IMO. It benefits Big Pharma the MOST to have smokers, vapers and the general public distrust BT and then they turn it around and use it against smokers and vapers. It wasn't Big Pharma that finally got my husband (who has sleep apnea, which is aggravated by smoking) to quit smoking, it was e-cigarettes and a smoke-free tobacco product (snus) that finally worked. I truly believe that BP/ANTZ wants us to distrust and hate BT so they can use that emotion to ban smoke-free alternatives and e-cigarettes and keep us smoking & using their NRT and treatments for smoking-related diseases. I wouldn't put anything past them.
Big Tobacco may have originally "made us slaves" to cigarettes, but Big Pharma secretly conspires to KEEP us slaves, while simultaneously claiming to be our savior from "evil BT" and then pay the ANTZ to make us into social pariahs because we are lowly slaves to our addiction. They basically took over a chunk of Big Tobacco's profits by selling us and the public their snake-oil and convincing us it was still Big Tobacco's fault we were still smoking. It's the biggest con job of all time and unfortunately, most of us are still buying it.
At this point, I trust BT a LOT more than I trust BP. Personally, I'm just not buying what they (BP/ANTZ) are selling anymore. If I still allowed myself to believe that everything made by BT was poison and deadly, as BP and the ANTZ want me to believe, my husband would still be smoking today. And who knows how much time we actually had before I woke up one morning and found out that he had stopped breathing one final time?
I guess my disgust, mistrust and resentment for Big Pharma and the ANTZ far surpassed what negative feelings I had for Big Tobacco about 3 years ago - when I started vaping and my eyes were opened to who the REAL enemy was.
(Sorry - my rant is over now.)
I dont know if that was referring to my post or not, but just to be clear I never said or meant more lethal, I meant more addictive. I agree 100% killing outright is not a profitable business model.
Quote for truth and further emphasis.
That happened to me about two years ago.
I would not call that a rant, I would call that required reading.
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