Mail Online article

Status
Not open for further replies.

ShogaNinja

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Feb 18, 2012
3,524
985
Ohio
www.youtube.com
Before this turns into a thread war, which it probably will, let me assure you that vaping is better than smoking. There is not conclusive proof of anything that was said in that article, on way or the other. What I can tell you is that other nicotine replacement therapies (patch, gum, inhaler(not ecigs, like asthma inhalers)) have a 90% failure rate after 6 months. That is, the users go back to smoking. Ecigs seem to be the opposite. They have probably around a 90% success rate. On top of that they are pure so they create an aversion to smoking, and smokers for that matter. If you vape for a couple months you will lol at smokers who you will pity.

Is nicotine safe to use all day every day? Is vaping safe? The answer is very complicated. The consensus is that no one knows 100% for sure. Limited tests have been done on NRT (Nicotine Replacement Therapy) and most of it revolves around Snus (smokeless tobacco), Nicotine Patches, Nicotine Gum, and Nicotine Inhalers, and very little has been done on the ecigarette itself. Scientists can't even agree on what the absorption rate is of the nicotine you vape. Some say 10%, others 40%. What I can tell you with confidence is three things: it's MUCH safer than smoking which has 4000+ chemicals (43 of which are known carcinogens), nicotine levels were found to be very similar in the blood tests among smokers and vapers, and nothing is better than being free of all addictions. A nonsmoker/nonvaper is the healthiest you can be. One should eventually endeavor to wean themselves off of nicotine by decreasing their ejuice to 0mg of nicotine and quit when the physical dependence no longer exists.

Is Propylene Glycol dangerous to vape? It can be to some people. There is a very real chance that people can be allergic to it. The fact is, it is found in MANY of the products you use daily, from mouthwash, toothpaste, shampoo, conditioner, inhalers, and even personal lubricants. It has been used in the movie and theater industries in their fog machines for many decades and is considered by the FDA as GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe). It's also found in food products. Some people point out that its flashpoint is lower than Vegetable Glycerin and that it produces the biocide Acrolein. The safe oral consumption rate of acrolein is 7.5 mg per kilogram (2.2 lbs) of body weight per day, according to the WHO (World Health Organization). That is many times more than you even vape in ml of juice a day. So is it a threat? Not really.

They found diethylene glycol in one out of the 10 cartdridges they tested at random. So what? They found lead and melamine in our kids toys and baby formula but we still use those do we not? China sucks. They cut corners, but the people who got caught doing it didn't get fired, they were executed. Lesson to be learned here? Fearmongering is dumb, and don't live in China.

So before the battle ensues, know that a non-smoker non-vaper is the best thing you can be, but if you can't be one of those yet then being a vaper is far superior to being a smoker.
 

Fruit-Bat

Full Member
Aug 6, 2012
9
0
UK
Oops, sorry bout the live link there...

Yeah the whole thing about diethylene glycol is stupid, it's like saying they found one brand of cheap tires slide in the wet due to inferior rubber so let's ban tires on cars... or something :D

Some form of regulation might be good tho, to make sure we don't get sold junk e-liquid with nasties in it, but my concern is they'll go overboard & just ban everything like they've already done in a couple of other countries...
 

TennDave

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 19, 2010
9,988
8,034
65
Knoxville, TN
I response to the last post, I just feel vaping needs to be left alone.
I think there is excellent self-governing of standards.
We find out about bad e-liquid, the information gets passed on quickly....and people avoid it.

Oh, and I might add, I read all the information in this editorial (linked to here) over 2 years ago and started doing my own research and found that they were mostly lies. I then felt informed enough to make the conscious choice to try vaping instead of smoking. Now I am over 19 months smoke free and my health has greatly improved!!

So, the article is old news and mostly inaccurate
 
Last edited:

Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Although the article resurrects old propaganda, it was published just a few days ago. Looks like the MHPRA in the UK is pushing to get its hands on e-cigarettes there.

Fruit-bat, you might want to check out our web site for more accurate information about electronic cigarettes and other smoke-free alternatives: CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

Also, I published this essay explaining how the FDA used propaganda techniques to take a much less hazardous product and make it sound more dangerous than smoking. FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
5,171
13,288
67
Not sure what's going on here, but can someone explain how censoring and/or discouraging discussion (by e-cigarette advocates) about an outrageously irresponsible statements made by the UK Minister of Health and printed in a leading UK newspaper can benefit the e-cigarette community?

While I support a policy of not creating google juice for anti e-cigarette webpages/websites, applying that policy to outrageous comments by the UK Minister of Health in a leading newspaper appears have prevented awareness, discussion and public responses by harm reduction advocates.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-links-junk-science-other-rubbish-posts.html

Also, the title of this thread is not going to generate much interest in this thread.
 

classwife

Admin
Admin
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 9, 2010
98,561
161,084
68
Wesley Chapel, Florida
I happened to stumble back in here by chance...

Discussions not discouraged at all.

PMs are handy...if you think a link that has been broken is an "acceptable link"...please PM and let me (or whoever broke it) know...I would be happy to change it back.
You can also "Report" a post and ask that way.


If a title needs clearing up/clarifying...a PM with a better suggestion can help with that too.

:)
 

offashead

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 10, 2012
98
31
67
UK
Oops, sorry bout the live link there...

Yeah the whole thing about diethylene glycol is stupid, it's like saying they found one brand of cheap tires slide in the wet due to inferior rubber so let's ban tires on cars... or something :D

Some form of regulation might be good tho, to make sure we don't get sold junk e-liquid with nasties in it, but my concern is they'll go overboard & just ban everything like they've already done in a couple of other countries...

Hey man. That's right. The Daily Mail is a right wing paper, the gov is a right wing gov. They will try and ban it or tax it. I can't find the report. Help!!!!!. The health minister is an idiot... we all know that over here. Make no bones about it, the present government will do their upmost to ban, regulate, tax and try if possible to finish ecig use, or worse hand it over to their pals in the baccy industry. Although The health minister is a complete .... he can sway alot of people.
 

tommy2bad

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 1, 2011
461
506
Kilkenny

tommy2bad

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 1, 2011
461
506
Kilkenny
Correction to the above, it looks like someone somewhere sent out a press release because a similar story appeared in The Sun | The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities | The Sun, not going to link it, but just a short quote; You can search for e cigs in their search bar yourselves.
Figures show TWO MILLION Brits have tried them and 650,000 use them regularly. But Health Minister Simon Burns said some e-cigs had been “found to pose a potential danger”.
Theirs a campaign in progress it would seem.
 

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,405
ECF Towers
The Daily Mail will publish any alarmist nonsense that sells papers. If they think readers have an opinion on something, they'll comply with it and add useful info about nubile TV stars. If they think readers don't have an opinion then the Mail tells them what to think, and normally they are against it unless it involves nubile TV stars.

If ecigs became popular with the stars of TOWIE (Mailspeak for The Only Way Is Essex, a new low in TV quality in a medium that has sunk to such depths that it's way below the seabed now) then the Mail would be for them, in a big way, as anything popular in TOWIE will be popular with Mail readers - like neanderthal language and primary school ideals of dress and behaviour. The only possible improvement on TOWIE ideals are those showcased in Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, a surreal mix of an eight year old girl's idea of the perfect woman: getting married at sixteen dressed in half the annual output of a taffeta factory, combined with an eight year old boy's ideal of the perfect man: barefist boxing by the untrained and unfit.
 

Petrodus

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2010
7,702
8,132
Midwest
The Daily Mail will publish any alarmist nonsense that sells papers. If they think readers have an opinion on something, they'll comply with it and add useful info about nubile TV stars. If they think readers don't have an opinion then the Mail tells them what to think, and normally they are against it unless it involves nubile TV stars.

If ecigs became popular with the stars of TOWIE (Mailspeak for The Only Way Is Essex, a new low in TV quality in a medium that has sunk to such depths that it's way below the seabed now) then the Mail would be for them, in a big way, as anything popular in TOWIE will be popular with Mail readers - like neanderthal language and primary school ideals of dress and behaviour. The only possible improvement on TOWIE ideals are those showcased in Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, a surreal mix of an eight year old girl's idea of the perfect woman: getting married at sixteen dressed in half the annual output of a taffeta factory, combined with an eight year old boy's ideal of the perfect man: barefist boxing by the untrained and unfit.
laughing.gif
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
5,171
13,288
67
rolygate wrote:

The Daily Mail will publish any alarmist nonsense that sells papers.

Are you saying that Health Minister Simon Burns never said what the The Daily Mail article claimed he said, and that the paper has previously published articles that fraudulantly attribute fictitious quotes to UK government officials?

I thought UK had very strict libel laws, and that the UK government would take action.

The article also quoted ASH UK's Deborah Arnott defending e-cigarettes and opposing a ban on them (because it would force many e-cigarette consumers to return to smoking far more hazardous cigarettes). As one who knows Deborah and ASH UK's evolving policy on harm reduction and e-cigarettes, the quote attributed to her in that article appears consistent with her views.
 

wv2win

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 10, 2009
11,879
9,045
GA by way of WV
Hey man. That's right. The Daily Mail is a right wing paper, the gov is a right wing gov. They will try and ban it or tax it. I can't find the report. Help!!!!!. The health minister is an idiot... we all know that over here. Make no bones about it, the present government will do their upmost to ban, regulate, tax and try if possible to finish ecig use, or worse hand it over to their pals in the baccy industry. Although The health minister is a complete .... he can sway alot of people.

That's interesting, because on this side of the pond, it's the exact opposite. It is the conservative judges, appointed by a conservative President that saved vaping from being banned. And it is a liberal President who unleashed a liberal FDA and liberal senators who are the strongest voices for banning vaping at the federal level.
 

Placebo Effect

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 19, 2008
1,444
1,562
rolygate wrote:

Are you saying that Health Minister Simon Burns never said what the The Daily Mail article claimed he said, and that the paper has previously published articles that fraudulantly attribute fictitious quotes to UK government officials?

I thought UK had very strict libel laws, and that the UK government would take action.

The article also quoted ASH UK's Deborah Arnott defending e-cigarettes and opposing a ban on them (because it would force many e-cigarette consumers to return to smoking far more hazardous cigarettes). As one who knows Deborah and ASH UK's evolving policy on harm reduction and e-cigarettes, the quote attributed to her in that article appears consistent with her views.

I think he's just commenting on the Daily Mail's willingness to publish non-scientific articles if they can attach an attention-catching headline.

This website lists all of the stories the Daily Mail has published regarding how anything and everything can be linked to causing cancer -- Kill or cure?
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
5,171
13,288
67
Either UK Health Minister Simon Burns said what the news article quote him as saying (i.e. claiming e-cigarettes contain "potentially toxic substances" and pose "potential danger to consumers") or he didn't say that, and its critically important that we (especially folks from the UK) find out if he said those things or if he didn't.

If Burns didn't say those things, the UK Health Minister's office should have immediately called the Daily Mail demanding a correction, an apology, and the immediate firing of the reporter who fabricated the quotes that were falsely attributed to Burns.

But if that didn't happen, the quotes in the article are probably correct. And since a similar article appeared in The Sun, it is very likely that Burns made the comments that were attributed to him in the Daily Mail article.

And if that is the case, I strongly urge e-cigarette companies and consumers in the UK to contact Burns' office and demand the evidence that Burns is basing his claims on. If e-cig companies and consumers in the UK fail to contact or publicly criticize Burns, the UK government will be under the impression that nobody cares if the UK government bans or excessively regulates e-cigarettes.

I just don't understand why UK vapers aren't up in arms demanding a retraction from Burns, and at least demanding the evidence Burns claims he is basing his comments on.

Below are the links to both news stories.
Ministers warn electronic cigarettes could be unsafe and lead to health problems | Mail Online
‘E-cigs a risk’ fear may see law move | The Sun |News|Politics
 

tommy2bad

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 1, 2011
461
506
Kilkenny
The thing is the minister may have not spoken those exact words in the exact context the article used them in.
I'm of the opinion that as both stories have a similar slant to them that their from a press release probably from the BMA or similar and are part of a campaign to get ecigs under the regulation of a health dep rather than general safety regulation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread