Massachusetts banned e-cigs entirely... smh

[sofarsogood]

I wish we could see a live feed YT video from one of the vape shops in NY or MI or may be CT near the border. I was in a tobacco shop Sunday here in Michigan. The large vape area was very busy. Lots of juice sales. The way it feels to me it's time for vapers to get a lot more politically active. BTW the LA County commissioners are giving retailers 180 days.

 

[AvaOrchid]

Have you actually tried IQOS, or are you just repeating something you heard somewhere?

First hand from someone who has tried 'em:

I tried one firsthand I'm not sure about the exact brand of it but it was the kind that has I guess they refer to it as "heets" like I can see if you were in the room with someone smoking one of those that you would not notice the smell so that's a good benefit I suppose but to me it was bad like I could smell it it was stinky and it tasted to me alot like a re lit cigarette. Notw to be perfectly honest if I smoked a cigarette right now I would probably have a similar opinion and I think the smell of cigarettes are revolting at this point as well. I didn't try it in the long-term I literally just tried it twice and said it wasn't for me so there is a possibility that it was user error or something along that line. By all means if people like them I think it's great to have as many options out there as possible.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

If my business was shut down for 4 months, pretty sure we'd be shut down, period.

 

[zoiDman]

So any word on a filing a Federal Emergency Injunction?

 

[Uncle Willie]

So any word on a filing a Federal Emergency Injunction?

I honestly don't know if that's even a thing .. Governor Declares Emergency / Federal Court Grants Injunction / Legislators Pushing Liquid Ban / Deaths Reported .. etc ..

What Federal Judge is going to grant that and override States Rights .. ??

 

[Rossum]

They won't help either, IMO. The reason is that without regulation, BT will still own the market and drive the others out. IMO, there's no such thing as an actual "free market".

Horsefeathers. We had a vibrant free market in vape products with an almost infinite number of choices from thousands of vendors both small and large right up until the government started interfering with it.

The only way that BT can "own" the market in the absence of government intervention is to sell a better product that their competitors. They've been trying to create a better product for as long as I've been vaping (almost 6 years) and have failed miserably each time. So they bought into one independent company that did make a better product, and although it appears they "own" half the market in terms of dollars, that product (Juul) is so over-priced that's the wrong way to look at things. If we look at the number of vapers that actually buy BT products, it's quite small (likely under 25%).

 

[zoiDman]

I honestly don't know if that's even a thing .. Governor Declares Emergency / Federal Court Grants Injunction / Legislators Pushing Liquid Ban / Deaths Reported .. etc ..

What Federal Judge is going to grant that and override States Rights .. ??

Because a State Health Department doesn't have Authority to Declare a "Public Health Emergency" just because you want to Eliminate something that is Screwing Up your MSA Payments. Or For Political gain.

And if you are going to Decimate an Entire Economic Market Segment via your Actions, shouldn't there be a Process where the Means by which your Actions were determined can be Publicly Evaluated?

States do have "Rights". But these "Rights" are Not Unlimited. Because just like the Governor of a State, the Head of a State Health Department is Not Immune to Judicial Review.

 

[chargingcharlie]

And to note how non-partisan this is, Baker is a GOP guy. Some/many of the other governors are Dems.
It's all over the spectrum.

Further, online sales will be targeted next, by congress (D.C.). Watch.

Baker says he's with the GOP but pretty much any "Republican" in MA is a donkey wearing an elephant costume.

 

[zoiDman]

I honestly don't know if that's even a thing .. Governor Declares Emergency / Federal Court Grants Injunction / Legislators Pushing Liquid Ban / Deaths Reported .. etc ..

What Federal Judge is going to grant that and override States Rights .. ??

BTW - Even if a it can be Argued successfully that a Ban such as what the Governor imposed is Justified, which I think is Legally dubious at best, what is the Compelling Argument with supporting Documentation that a shows a Ban needs to Immediate?

And Not say a Ban in 30 Days?

 

[chargingcharlie]

I can't find any actual info on the 5 / 0 coming out and shutting down shops .. anyone have a link .. ??

I'm in MA and I'm pretty sure that is nothing but a rumor. They said on the news that the state police will be visiting vape shops to make sure they are complying to the ban which just means that they have to remove everything from the shelves and cease selling any of it. The police can't force them to shut their business down.

As far as the question of "How does this effect Mail Order .. ??" .. Buy your stuff from a place that does not use any wording in it's name related to vaping .. if, on the slim chance shippers are asked to attempt to screen incoming packages, (which is unlikely, but still) .. any vape related name of the Company would be a tip off ..

The attorney general has warned online vendors that she will bury them in consumer protection lawsuits if they attempt to ship any vape products to MA. She has used this same tactic to prevent ammunition manufacturers from shipping ammunition components (lead bullets that don't even have shells, primers, or powder) into MA and it's a very effective way to get them to comply.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Because a State Health Department doesn't have Authority to Declare a "Public Health Emergency" just because you want to Eliminate something that is Screwing Up your MSA Payments. Or For Political gain.

And if you are going to Decimate an Entire Economic Market Segment via your Actions, shouldn't there be a Process where the Means by which your Actions were determined can be Publicly Evaluated?

States do have "Rights". But these "Rights" are Not Unlimited. Because just like the Governor of a State, the Head of a State Health Department is Not Immune to Judicial Review.

In a Perfect World, you'd likely be right .. I'm not a Lawyer and don't profess to know the in's and out's of how the System works, or does not work .. perhaps a Go Fund Me Page should be set up for the Vape Shops in Mass .. since contested legalities are not free ..

 

[sofarsogood]

YUP, was just going to order from myfreedomsmokes when I notice their nic price went up! NOT a nice thing to do to loyal customers, especially during vape bans.

Who else is holding their prices for unflavored nic? I used to buy at OneStopDIY until they stopped selling nic, and I've been a loyal customer of myfreedomsmokes for a couple of years now....but not if they're gonna be jacking their prices up.

I went ahead and bought from MFS at the higher price. I finished mixing with a liter of nic bought from MFS 5 years ago. It was perfect. Then I opened another 100 mg liter from MFS that's been in my freezer just as long and it looked perfect. It's hard for me to ignore that proven track record for such an important item.

I watched Gov Bakers announcement. It's revealing. It starts out appropriately. He justifies his ban on information, or lack of information, from the CDC. His action is extreme but defensible. But then he goes on and makes clear he doesn't like vaping or THC regardless. The governor's opinion of nicotine or THC is not an emergency and should not have been included in this announcement. It strongly indicates that his bias persuaded him to over react to the CDC warning and harm many thousands of people and for that reason might justify an injunction.

 

[RedForeman]

I'm in MA and I'm pretty sure that is nothing but a rumor. They said on the news that the state police will be visiting vape shops to make sure they are complying to the ban which just means that they have to remove everything from the shelves and cease selling any of it. The police can't force them to shut their business down.

Of course the police can't do that. On the other hand, if they're parked in front of a vape shop, even if they're just sitting in their patrol car watching porn on their state issued laptop, I'm sure that will be good for business.

The attorney general has warned online vendors that she will bury them in consumer protection lawsuits if they attempt to ship any vape products to MA. She has used this same tactic to prevent ammunition manufacturers from shipping ammunition components (lead bullets that don't even have shells, primers, or powder) into MA and it's a very effective way to get them to comply.

It's how government is done these days. Can't legislate what you want? Get your bureaucracy to regulate or issue an executive order. Still got pushback? Take it to the judge you like. Judge not going your way? Just use the armed force of government to intimidate and bully your opponent.

 

[zoiDman]

In a Perfect World, you'd likely be right .. I'm not a Lawyer and don't profess to know the in's and out's of how the System works, or does not work .. perhaps a Go Fund Me Page should be set up for the Vape Shops in Mass .. since contested legalities are not free ..

I just think that Any Reasonable Judge would want to know what Exactly went into Declaring a "Public Health Emergency"?

And Why this Ban is so Time Sensitive, that it has to be Immediate? Verses say a Ban in 30 Days were Effected Parties have a Chance to Present a Case in Court.

So Grant the Injunction and lets let Everyone present their case.

Because even if the Ban is Overturned 3 Months from now, Isn't there going to be about the Same Amount of Shop Closures and people Out of Work as what is happening right Now?

 

[sofarsogood]

The attorney general has warned online vendors that she will bury them in consumer protection lawsuits if they attempt to ship any vape products to MA.

This threat will not impress Fastech.

BTW, witch hunts are still legal in Massechusetts, right?

 

[Mowgli]

And to note how non-partisan this is, Baker is a GOP guy. Some/many of the other governors are Dems.
It's all over the spectrum.

Further, online sales will be targeted next, by congress (D.C.). Watch.

Black Sabbath sample & Jello Biafra from the Dead Kennedys
This was released during the PMRC wars

Parental Advisory Forever: An Oral History of the PMRC's War on Freedom Of Speech

 

[zoiDman]

This threat will not impress Fastech.

Maybe Not. But PayPal Isn't taking this Lightly.

And if FT doesn't have Paypal, they Don't have Much.

 

[Houndstooth]

I just swung by my local shop (MA)to grab a thc cart. His intention is to stop selling all vape material tomorrow. I DIY; however, I suspect mail order mixing supplies will cease. Huge bummer/PITA. Hope NH holds out.

 

[Iron Molly]

Maybe Not. But PayPal Isn't taking this Lightly.

And if FT doesn't have Paypal, they Don't have Much.

They have gift cards, that's what they have.

 

[sofarsogood]

They have gift cards, that's what they have.

I believe Fastech takes bitcoin and sells many things besides vape stuff. Vaping is a basket of cats. There are millions of cats.

The Boston Tea Party just came to mind. Hmmm...

The governors ban applies to sellers. The penalties apply to sellers. There is nothing about adult consumer buying or posession.