Maximize vapor per second...

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SacredNut

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I'm tired of hitting the 10sec cut off time and still craving more vapor (per hit).

(Rather than just taking another hit) I want to maximize the amount of vapor per second per hit to achieve this.

I have my lemo tank opened up all the way which allows for maximum airflow.

Is it true that more wraps (on my coil build) would create more vapor since it's more surface area of saturated wick?

That coupled with more wattage would burn it hotter, also creating more vapor.

And using a gauge like 24 would help keep the ohms down, which in turn would allow for faster coil heat up time/temp to produce vapor quicker to maximize vapor per second?

Please let me know if these steps will yield more vapor per second or just send me on a different direction / adjust my ideas to allow me to obtain my desire.

Thanks ECF!
 

AndriaD

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Sounds like you're moving in the right direction; more wraps, more heat, also more VG, will definitely yield more vapor; the natural limit is a) the amount of airflow, and you might not find any tank that allows the same kind of massive airflow as some RDAs; and b) the type of wick used -- cotton will burn first and easiest, then rayon, then silica.

Andria

ETA: you didn't say anything about single or dual coils; if you're currently using single-coil builds, you might look into dual/multiple coil builds. More heat, more surface area.
 

Baditude

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Is it true that more wraps (on my coil build) would create more vapor since it's more surface area of saturated wick?

That coupled with more wattage would burn it hotter, also creating more vapor.
More wraps of a particular gauge wire will create more surface area. However, it will also increase the resistance (ohms) (requiring more power to fire the coil) and which increases the time to fire the coil adequately.

And using a gauge like 24 would help keep the ohms down, which in turn would allow for faster coil heat up time/temp to produce vapor quicker to maximize vapor per second?
Larger gauge (thicker) wire increases the resistance (ohms), the thicker wire requires more power and takes longer to heat up than a thinner wire.

Sounds like you need to use more wraps of a thinner gauge wire to shorten the time you press your fire button.
 
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AndriaD

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Yeah the dual coils is a more viable method; the fine wire (32ga -- I don't even like 30ga) doesn't last very long, so you have to replace them fairly often -- much like replaceable coils in clearos. Using thicker wire not only lowers the resistance, but it's much more durable. All wire becomes brittle with excessive heat; the thinner the wire, the faster it happens. It's true that thicker wire does take longer to heat, and I see this particularly between 28ga and 29ga -- 29ga is more durable than 30ga, but heats faster than 28ga by a substantial margin. If you made some duals from 29ga, you'd get heat and fast response, and coils that will last longer than those made from thinner wire.

Andria
 

SacredNut

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Can someone link me to a video to help me make dual coils knowing that I only have an Eleaf Lemo to put it in.

Currently I only have a VTR, which means I can't fire any coil under 1.2 or around those whereabouts.

(The stock prebuilt coil that came with the LEMO was useless with my setup)

I will however be getting a Smok XPRO M80 Plus, whenever the USPS gets the ball rolling, (currently in Cali - - on its way to Florida).
 

Ryedan

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Can someone link me to a video to help me make dual coils knowing that I only have an Eleaf Lemo to put it in.

Currently I only have a VTR, which means I can't fire any coil under 1.2 or around those whereabouts.

(The stock prebuilt coil that came with the LEMO was useless with my setup)

I will however be getting a Smok XPRO M80 Plus, whenever the USPS gets the ball rolling, (currently in Cali - - on its way to Florida).

2 questions for you SacredNut. What wire gauge and resistance are you using now? Do you want to set up for the VTR or the M80 Plus?

Also, IMO you're going to have a hard time getting dual coils into a Lemo. I haven't tried it myself, but I suspect that even if you could make it work for you I doubt it would be worth it in the end, specially with the VTR.
 

mcclintock

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    Using more wraps and an exact proportionate power increase would heat up exactly as fast. There are still some minor deviations from being exactly the same, except more, due to how that affects wicking. Flavor should improve because it's kind of like making the atomizer itself smaller, by comparison... Using thicker wire, all else equal, would heat up just a little slower but reach the same temperature in time. Many comparisons are not truly all else equal. Either the number of wraps would have to be reduced or the coil would be larger due to the thicker wire and need more power. All that assumes a VW mod or something capable of the same results because with a mech it would be impossible for an "all else equal" comparison.

    Most mods are capable of firing longer than the timeout, you have to release the button for an instant so the timer starts over. It's not limiting the hit as much making sure a human is pushing it. Of course, this technique is most useful on low output devices.
     
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    SacredNut

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    2 questions for you SacredNut. What wire gauge and resistance are you using now? Do you want to set up for the VTR or the M80 Plus?

    Also, IMO you're going to have a hard time getting dual coils into a Lemo. I haven't tried it myself, but I suspect that even if you could make it work for you I doubt it would be worth it in the end, specially with the VTR.

    TBH, I'm still having a difficult time with a single coil. I think I need to work on this more first. With my coil master tool, I can make tight evenly wrapped coils but the problem for me is getting each lead either through the hole (and then tighten screw down onto it) or getting under the "lip" of the screw.

    If you haven't seen the Lemo, this might not make sense with the two options for coil leg placement that I'm describing.

    I haven't perfected nor understand how to make the opposite legs on the coil one going under and the other going over to help get these leads screwed down. And I think there's so much "trick" to bending the lead/leg 90 degrees so it can be secured and be in a good position between the posts.

    Think I'm going to watch RIP Trippers video a few more times and hope you guys can add some pointers.

    To answer your question, I have 28 and 32 gauges available, and I guess would like to start with something for my VTR since the Smok is probably 1-2 weeks away.

    Hopefully I have improved my coil buildings by then.
     

    Ryedan

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    TBH, I'm still having a difficult time with a single coil. I think I need to work on this more first. With my coil master tool, I can make tight evenly wrapped coils but the problem for me is getting each lead either through the hole (and then tighten screw down onto it) or getting under the "lip" of the screw.

    If you haven't seen the Lemo, this might not make sense with the two options for coil leg placement that I'm describing.

    I have a Lemo and I've done it both ways. They both work well but going through the holes means you've got much longer wire legs which don't make vapor but still heat up so they steal power from the actual coils. Right now I have 28 gauge wire under the screw heads and I like this setup.

    I haven't perfected nor understand how to make the opposite legs on the coil one going under and the other going over to help get these leads screwed down. And I think there's so much "trick" to bending the lead/leg 90 degrees so it can be secured and be in a good position between the posts.

    Think I'm going to watch RIP Trippers video a few more times and hope you guys can add some pointers.

    Rip shows both builds well in his tutorial.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuW9s-tjQjY

    To answer your question, I have 28 and 32 gauges available, and I guess would like to start with something for my VTR since the Smok is probably 1-2 weeks away.

    Hopefully I have improved my coil buildings by then.

    OK, so you've got 15 watts to work with and you said you need to stay over 1.2 ohms. Rip built his using 26 gauge wire, but he set his at 25 watts. IMO 30 gauge would have been the best for 15 watts but let's see what happens both ways.

    Here is the 28 gauge build modeled in Steam Engine at 1.4 ohms, on a 2.5 mm pin using seven wraps. Look at the Results area on the right, I set the heat flux power setting to 15 watts and that gives you a heal flux number of 190 mW/mm² (miliwatts per square mm of coil surface area). Rip's build came out at 200. Both of these are cool vapes.

    Here is the 32 gauge build using a 3.0 ohm coil also with seven wraps on a 2.5 mm pin. Heat flux at 15 watts is 357. I've vaped as high as 430 and not burned juice, but it does become a warmer vape. Turn the power down and of course the heat flux goes down as well as vapor output.

    Personally, I don't like working with 32 gauge Kanthal because it's so flimsy but it can certainly be done. I have no experience with wicking this wire after the coil is built but there is a chance you might find it easier to wrap the coil on the wick. I've never tried this with cotton but I have done it with silica and that works quite well.

    I would try the 28 gauge build first and see how that goes. Building it will be easier than with the thinner wire and you might find it to be a good vape. If you want more heat you can always try the thinner wire later. I have not experimented with the effect of lower vs higher heat flux on vapor production at the same power so I'm not sure which will be better for that.

    Also, once you have the Smok your power limitation will be gone and the 28 gauge wire will be fine. I found with my Lemo I was good up to around 30 watts with no burnt hits if I had the wicking right but it does become a hot vape then.
     

    SacredNut

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    OP, what mod are you using?

    Currently the Innokin VTR. But I have a Smok XPRO M80 on its way, probably still 1-2 weeks away. Trying to learn as much as I can about coil building for the VTR now to get the most out of it, and be able to better understand and enjoy the Smok experience when it arrives.
     

    juggler86

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    Your VTR will fire down to .6, been know to firr kanger ST .5 coils 2. Ive seen it work and not work on mine, with the .5 in the nano. ALso everything went bad mod wise so all i hade was my VTR and uaed a plume veil single .8 at 15watts and it worked very well until my others mods were back in service. Heated up fast ans tthrogh clouds
     
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