Metal and Silicate Particles Including Nanoparticles Are Present in Electronic Cigarette Cartomizer Fluid and Aerosol

[EricDykstra]

"The filament, a nickel-chromium wire, was coupled to a thicker copper wire coated with silver. The silver coating was sometimes missing. Four tin solder joints attached the wires to each other and coupled the copper/silver wire to the air tube and mouthpiece. All cartomizers had evidence of use before packaging (burn spots on the fibers and electrophoretic movement of fluid in the fibers). Fibers in two cartomizers had green deposits that contained copper."

The metal found in the vapor is a result of bad manufacturing and a used cartomizer. Who's cartomizer is it? How many Cartomizers were tested.

 

[Busted knuckles]

Have no idea whether this "study" has any merit at all, but, I'm not so sure it should be dismissed out of hand.

The heavy metals, chromium in particular IF present in any concentration may be of concern. While impossible to reach the needed temperature to create Hexavalent chromium from an e-liquid cooled coil, I'm not so sure that may not be the case with SS mesh set ups where hot spots/shorts occur. They also found what I presume is solder debris in the filler which is quite believable considering cartos are probably made at work stations covered in solder and wire scraps.

I've recently been an convert to natural wicks. Not out of safety concerns in particular, but rather for the dramatic improvement in vape. And the coils are made in the good ole US of A by yours truly.

Hey, big screen, what kind of wick material are you using and where do you get it? I'm interested in trying a natural wicking material.

 

[Busted knuckles]

I'd recommend reading the whole thing to get a jist of how much BS is involved, but yes I feel like they always choose bottomfeeder cartos...

Oh, optimomuffin, I do understand how much BS is involved, I think this study was done (possibly with some intentional falsification) to give credence to the anti vaping initiative. I was just pointing out that part of the conclusion gives me something to think about. QC In china is notorious bad.
I'd like to see a study on the vaper out of a properly set up drip atty.

 

[Big Screen D]

Hey, big screen, what kind of wick material are you using and where do you get it? I'm interested in trying a natural wicking material.

Cotton yarn, and hemp twine from Walmart and Micheal's.

Several great threads in the modding forum with great information.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/atomizer-mods/378875-just-hemp.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/284030-wick-materials-safe-vs-dangerous.html

 

[DC2]

I believe I heard on VP Live the other night that Dr. Farsalinos and Dr. Phillips will be looking into this further.

 

[crxess]

I have to wonder how this compares to breathing while walking through NYC or down town LA?

 

[itsonlysmellz]

Interesting... I'll ask my GF when she comes home since she works at a pharmaceutical lab for cancer research. I remember doing an air quality test in college in area's around burbank, san diego, etc. and what I found from this is that the air quality around airport area's are so bad, that its equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes a week based on the elements we've found in the air filters. Seriously, those filters were white when we put them in the housing body. They went black after a week of normal wind conditions in dry temperatures. Don't even ask what color they were after a month... If you're living in a big city or near an airport, you're probably a lot worse off than someone who vapes. Just my $0.02

 

[sonicdsl]

Moved to Media & General News

 

[unquiet]

Oh, optimomuffin, I do understand how much BS is involved, I think this study was done (possibly with some intentional falsification) to give credence to the anti vaping initiative.

I have to assume you are not very familiar with scientific research, b/c no one who is would make that kind of accusation so blithely...

PLoS journals, including PLoS One, are very highly regarded, and this article was subject to standard peer review.

It is also just 1 paper about 1 experiment. A quite limited experiment, as the authors clearly note, and thus limited applicability of their conclusions. I realize that in the current political climate, it is tempting to jump automatically into a defensive stance. And yes, this is the kind of stuff our opponents are likely to completely misrepresent and twist around to mean something it doesn't. Nonetheless, whether the cartos tested by the authors were anomalies or not, we SHOULD be concerned about Quality Control and any potential problems with the equipment or juice we use. Information is NOT the enemy.

 

[OptimoMuffin]

I guess you never opened used a Boge carto. Every one of them is burned inside even has burned holes in the coil wrap. I've been saying for a long time this can't be good for health. Now they've found small particles as well. The smaller particle the worse it is because it can go deep in to a lung and stay there. Off course this depends on how much of this gets inhaled. It might be no more than what's floating around in air we breathe at home or on the street which would be nothing to worry about. If it should be as much as a cigarette that would be pretty bad. We need some solid numbers on that. In any case I think that any serious problems would have shown up by now. Vaping been around long enough for that. Studies like this also must include comparison to other materials people use on daily bases, even foods otherwise the study it's quiet pointless since there are dangerous chemicals even in a potato but not enough to harm anyone.

I've never even used a Boge carto. Are they that bad?

 

[Bill Godshall]

This newest study by Prue Talbot et al found just trace levels of metals and silicate at levels below standards for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (per US Pharmacopeial Convention).
Key Issue: Elemental Impurities | U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention

The 2009 Chart is at
http://www.usp.org/sites/default/fi...-issues/2009-04-22MetalImpuritiesToxChart.pdf

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the Results of their abstract deceptively stated

The concentrations of nine elements in EC aerosol were higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke.

to justify the authors' unwarranted Conclusion that

The presence of metal and sicate particles in cartomizer aerosol demonstrates the need for improved quality control in EC design and manufacture and studies on how EC aerosol impacts the health of users and bystanders.

I have the full text of this study, as well as the new 2013 US Pharmacopeial Convention standards for "elemental impurities" in FDA approved drugs and devices.

Bill Godshall
Executive Director
Smokefree Pennsylvania
1926 Monongahela Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15218
412-351-5880
smokefree@compuserve.com

 

[Orobas]

I have to assume you are not very familiar with scientific research, b/c no one who is would make that kind of accusation so blithely...

PLoS journals, including PLoS One, are very highly regarded, and this article was subject to standard peer review.

And? People consider the FDA to be the pinnacle of scientific wisdom as well.

 

[Berylanna]

My cartos looked like that half the time for the first few months I was vaping. It didn't go away until I switched to carto tanks that kept them wet all the time.

Now I'm on Novas, so I don't care.

But, Bill, I think there is a BIG difference between inhaling metals vs inhaling PARTICLES of metal. There is a size (NOT quantity!) range in which the particle-ness is the real issue. I think it would take decades of vaping bad stuff to do damage, but so far some of us probably will vape bad stuff for a decade, ESPECIALLY if the FDA outlaws eliquid sold separately and we all have to take whatever the vendors feel like giving us. IMO this is actually an argument FOR providing for modders!

ECF's modder forums do have threads about various methods of attaching Kanthal or Nichrome to NR (no-resistance) wire, so I do not find it hard to believe vendors are doing something similar.

 

[Spazmelda]

I'd like to get a copy of the article and read it.

I just want to point out that a µm is a micrometer. Micrometer is a measure of the size of the particles, not concentration. There seemed to be some misunderstanding of that earlier in the thread. Size of the particles would be an issue as well as concentration.

Eta: found the article. Reading now.

 

[OptimoMuffin]

Lets say the FDA stopped us from buying eliquid sold separately... Would that mean empty delivery systems go bye bye too? And what would stop us from buying pharmaceutical grade PG/VG, nic and flavorings and doing it ourselves....?

 

[Horselady154]

They will probably regulate the nic.

 

[OptimoMuffin]

They will probably regulate the nic.

 

[Luisa]

Ok, sorry for the triple post, I'm going to delve into this. Heres the full statement I cut off from above:

(PLEASE READ ABOVE POST FIRST)

Statement 1:

"The aerosol contained particles >1 µm comprised of tin, silver, iron, nickel, aluminum, and silicate and nanoparticles (<100 nm) of tin, chromium and nickel."

a) This was the contents of the AEROSOL, not the e cigarette vapor.... This doesn't cite how much aerosol is in the vapor that I could find meaning even with these insanely small measurements, it could be way smaller depending on how much aerosol is really in the vapor.

b) Again, like above post, µm means 10^-6, prefix for micro, so it means greater than .000001 (units of measurements used)... but since they didnt say >2 µm that means less than .000002 (units of measurement used)'s... That amount doesn't scare me.

c) The tin, chromium and nickel was less than .1 OF A MICROMETER, or the measurement listed above (.000001).... These measurements don't even seem valid because they are so small. And again, we have no clue how diluted these measurements get because they didn't state the aerosol to vapor ratio, or amount, whatever. You get the point.

Statement 2:

"The concentrations of nine of eleven elements in EC aerosol were higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke."

a) These are not the things we are worried about inhaling when we smoke cigarrettes.

b) With respect to what I said above, its funny because although there are more serious things to worry about in cigarrettes, the statement 2 blatantly admits that 19 percent or 3 of those elements are STILL higher in normal cigarrettes EVEN THOUGH they aren't the focus of cigarette worries... What a joke...

I could be completely wrong about this, I'm only 19. But based on what I know, I have enough confidence in myself to say none of that BS scares me with what I've said in mind.

You might only be 19,but I must say you are a very bright 19!

 

[OptimoMuffin]

I'd like to get a copy of the article and read it.

I just want to point out that a µm is a micrometer. Micrometer is a measure of the size of the particles, not concentration. There seemed to be some misunderstanding of that earlier in the thread. Size of the particles would be an issue as well as concentration.

Eta: found the article. Reading now.

That is how I meant to display it, now that I reread my post I see what you mean though. I just didn't know how to word it right.

 

[OptimoMuffin]

You might only be 19,but I must say you are a very bright 19!

Thank you but most of it is just guessing based on old classes haha most of what i said could be wrong.