Michigan first state to ban flavored ecigs

[440BB]

The way the rules are written, zero nicotine liquid is treated just like nicotine liquid. Coming back into Michigan could be an issue.

Happy to be stocked for my DIY but the damage to the good shops, premix vapers and existing smokers is massive.

 

[Rossum]

The governor may have focused the entire vaping controversy on herself and Michigan. May be Michigan will be a dress rehersal for what might happen nationally nex May.

Well, the PMTA deadline doesn't just ban "flavored" products. It bans anything that doesn't have a PMTA filed, which will basically be everything.

 

[Rossum]

For some reason many of those manufacturers attack PG on their websites, a cheap benign thinner. Go figure.

They don't want a "thinner". The Tango Hotel Charlie crowd has this notion that you can judge purity/potency based on viscosity, and the higher the viscosity the better. There's a whole cottage industry making "dilutents" that don't thin the stuff.

 

[bombastinator]

Or drive through a tunnel, but I live in Detroit and since 911 it ain't nearly that simple or easy friend.

Yeah, I haven’t been back in years. It was the 90’s I think. How bad is it now?

 

[bombastinator]

Vitamin E Suspected In Serious Lung Problems Among People Who Vaped Cannabis........

Has the "c" word in the title. From NPR. Talks about vit-E being in most samples tested. For some very stupid reason, some very stupid street vendors are cutting with up to 50% vit-E oil.

The good ole FDA, however, is "not convinced" since "not all" samples they had contained vit E. Like one or three probably got submitted wrongly by a friend/spouse or something. Who knows? They're also testing for other contaminants like pesticides. Could be a compound problem, I guess. I can't entirely fault them for being cautious, but keeping the general-vaping door wide open is a mistake, and I don't trust them and vaping-related stuff anyway. Too much BT, pharma and other influence.

But what I'm NOT hearing is something along the lines of "I only vape store bought e-juice and I'm having this same problem".

back when I was 16, one of the issues was an herbicide called Paraquat. It killed plants by drying them out nearly instantly. Turned out to be really handy for the less law abiding. Also made stuff poisonous.

 

[Anergetic]

I was completely blindsided by this ban. However, I can't say I'm too surprised. The vibe I have been receiving lately from regular people around me is that vaping is very bad for you. When I quit a 20 year smoking habit a year and a half ago, I was very excited to tell people that it was all due to vaping. Not so much anymore. More and more, I feel like I'm actually getting lectured about it in ways that I never experienced when I was actually smoking. First, it was about the unknown health problems. Next, it was exploding batteries. Lately, it is lung disease and death. A few months ago, somebody told me that vaping is going to mess me up real bad, moreso than smoking. Just last Saturday, I started vaping around someone who had a lit cigarette in their hand, and they made the comment to me "didn't you hear that people are dying from that". Whenever I bring up the point about the tainted liquid from the street, nobody is having it. When I started going off about the governor to a family member, I was rebutted with "it's no good for you, don't you read the news". I was then asked why I was so worried about it, and don't I have 100 other more important things to worry about. Sorry if starting to smoke cigarettes again is something I worry about. I'm at the point where I don't even want to talk about it to anyone anymore, because nobody seems to understand. Not even the heavy smokers I know that want to quit. They'd rather try cold turkey for the umpteenth time, or use pharmaceuticals. Sorry to say, the media has perpetuated yet another moral panic. The governor surely feels justified with her response to the public hysteria, and it reaffirms her position of power and authority. Like every moral panic, it will one day pass. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[gsmit1]

Yeah, I haven’t been back in years. It was the 90’s I think. How bad is it now?

You have to have a passport or enhanced drivers license just to reenter the country at all.

 

[Janusz]

How many current smokers will take the time to learn how to DIY to try vaping to quit smoking? NONE.

How many current vapers will take the time to learn how to DIY to continue vaping?

None is too strong word. I quit smoking not because of health concerns (I assumed 40 years of smoking cannot reverse damage already done) but because of economic reason.

I started DIY juice production after less than month of vaping. I make my e-juice with minimum effort and minimum equipment... small baby milk bottle with ml scale... I do not sweat by milligrams or fractions of milliliter... I do not use even calculator or syringe... my bottle opening is 2 inches wide...

I fill my bottle to 70 ml mark with VG add 10 ml PG based nicotine... 10 - 15 ml of PG based flavoring... and add enough PG (5 - 10 ml) to reach 100 ml mark on my bottle... and that makes 100 ml of my DIY juice that has a ratio 70VG/30PG. I shake it and after a day or two try it .... if flavor is too week I will add a dozen drops of extra flavoring... if it is too strong I will add 2 or 4 ml of VG... and some small amount of PG

I use simple flavoring such as Shirley Temple, Creme Brule , Vanilla or raspberry/bluebery/apple/mango... the only flavor that I am not successful is strawberry... It is the same as baking cookies.... some people follow exactly recipes , procedures and some do not use measuring cups, scales and sophisticated baking equipment and still are making cookies that are quite tasty... I never created unvapable e-juice and that 100 ml of my DIY e-juice cost me less than half pack of Marlboro ... DIY e-juice does not have to be "rocket science"....

 

[zoiDman]

... I'm at the point where I don't even want to talk about it to anyone anymore, because nobody seems to understand. Not even the heavy smokers I know that want to quit. They'd rather try cold turkey for the umpteenth time, or use pharmaceuticals. ...

Isn't that what So Much of this is All About?

Keeping the Yoke on Smokers/Cigarette Tax Payers. And then making the Only Reasonable way to Quit is via a Big Pharmacy product.

If 450,000+ People didn't Die every year from Smoking, it would be the Perfect Con.

 

[zoiDman]

I was completely blindsided by this ban. However, I can't say I'm too surprised. The vibe I have been receiving lately from regular people around me is that vaping is very bad for you. When I quit a 20 year smoking habit a year and a half ago, I was very excited to tell people that it was all due to vaping. Not so much anymore. More and more, I feel like I'm actually getting lectured about it in ways that I never experienced when I was actually smoking. First, it was about the unknown health problems. Next, it was exploding batteries. Lately, it is lung disease and death. A few months ago, somebody told me that vaping is going to mess me up real bad, moreso than smoking. Just last Saturday, I started vaping around someone who had a lit cigarette in their hand, and they made the comment to me "didn't you hear that people are dying from that". Whenever I bring up the point about the tainted liquid from the street, nobody is having it. When I started going off about the governor to a family member, I was rebutted with "it's no good for you, don't you read the news". I was then asked why I was so worried about it, and don't I have 100 other more important things to worry about. Sorry if starting to smoke cigarettes again is something I worry about. I'm at the point where I don't even want to talk about it to anyone anymore, because nobody seems to understand. Not even the heavy smokers I know that want to quit. They'd rather try cold turkey for the umpteenth time, or use pharmaceuticals. Sorry to say, the media has perpetuated yet another moral panic. The governor surely feels justified with her response to the public hysteria, and it reaffirms her position of power and authority. Like every moral panic, it will one day pass. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

BTW - Welcome to the ECF.

 

[stols001]

I would say your average vape shop vaper has not much idea that you can make your own eliquid.

The vape stores certainly don't have any incentive that it can be done really easily and cheaply and at a fraction of the price, so they don't. Unless you join an e-cig group and start to learn these things, it's not really facts widely bandied about. It's just not.

I'd imagine there are going to be some disappointed ex vapers future smokers in Michigan for awhile to come.

This almost makes me want to forgive Michael Moore for his very first documentary about Flint Michigan, except for the fact that almost everything Michael Moore does is completely unforgivable.

That movie turned me off the "documentarian" an the "state" all at once but I'm sure EVERYONE in Michigan isn't like that.

Anna

 

[bombastinator]

I would say your average vape shop vaper has not much idea that you can make your own eliquid.

The vape stores certainly don't have any incentive that it can be done really easily and cheaply and at a fraction of the price, so they don't. Unless you join an e-cig group and start to learn these things, it's not really facts widely bandied about. It's just not.

I'd imagine there are going to be some disappointed ex vapers future smokers in Michigan for awhile to come.

This almost makes me want to forgive Michael Moore for his very first documentary about Flint Michigan, except for the fact that almost everything Michael Moore does is completely unforgivable.

That movie turned me off the "documentarian" an the "state" all at once but I'm sure EVERYONE in Michigan isn't like that.

Anna

I’m not sure that Moore is more biased than most people who are hard to one side or another of the fence. He does serve as an indicator of what extremism looks like to those outside the sphere of it though.

 

[rosesense]

I was completely blindsided by this ban. However, I can't say I'm too surprised. The vibe I have been receiving lately from regular people around me is that vaping is very bad for you. When I quit a 20 year smoking habit a year and a half ago, I was very excited to tell people that it was all due to vaping. Not so much anymore. More and more, I feel like I'm actually getting lectured about it in ways that I never experienced when I was actually smoking. First, it was about the unknown health problems. Next, it was exploding batteries. Lately, it is lung disease and death. A few months ago, somebody told me that vaping is going to mess me up real bad, moreso than smoking. Just last Saturday, I started vaping around someone who had a lit cigarette in their hand, and they made the comment to me "didn't you hear that people are dying from that". Whenever I bring up the point about the tainted liquid from the street, nobody is having it. When I started going off about the governor to a family member, I was rebutted with "it's no good for you, don't you read the news". I was then asked why I was so worried about it, and don't I have 100 other more important things to worry about. Sorry if starting to smoke cigarettes again is something I worry about. I'm at the point where I don't even want to talk about it to anyone anymore, because nobody seems to understand. Not even the heavy smokers I know that want to quit. They'd rather try cold turkey for the umpteenth time, or use pharmaceuticals. Sorry to say, the media has perpetuated yet another moral panic. The governor surely feels justified with her response to the public hysteria, and it reaffirms her position of power and authority. Like every moral panic, it will one day pass. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

'

I agree with you. I was just thinking about how few people ever said anything to me about smoking but everyone feels like they can say something about vaping. I shut them down quickly but don't really try to change their mind because you just can't. Waste of time and energy, usually.

 

[Horselady154]

'

I agree with you. I was just thinking about how few people ever said anything to me about smoking but everyone feels like they can say something about vaping. I shut them down quickly but don't really try to change their mind because you just can't. Waste of time and energy, usually.

It just goes to show how powerful the media is in scattering once intact brains to mush. Most people are followers. It's easier to let others do their thinking for them and they do. Sad, really. Probably why America's Founding Fathers despised democracies (mob rule).

 

[Eskie]

The way the rules are written, zero nicotine liquid is treated just like nicotine liquid. Coming back into Michigan could be an issue.

Happy to be stocked for my DIY but the damage to the good shops, premix vapers and existing smokers is massive.

But coming back into MI is a US customs matter, and they don't enforce State law. So long as what you bring in is legal under federal law, they won't stop you. Sure, if you bring back a dozen cartons of cigarettes and 5 liters of vodka, they will certainly want the import duties on the amount over limit. But even if MI banned vodka, customs can't stop you for it.

 

[GreenEyezGirl]

I contacted Juul and asked if they would still ship to Michigan. Their response was “........we don’t have further details at this time, but please don’t hesitate to reach out with any other questions”. (Sorry..... I like to use the Juul every once in a while). So, I’m assuming other companies don’t have a clue. I usually go to my local B&M for my nic salts. I am stopping by today to stock up and cry with them. I have signed the petition already and I will do anything necessary to help stop this madness!

 

[sofarsogood]

Listen to the governor's comments about her actions. She is shallow on this topic. Her talking points were fed to her by people who know little more than she does. If the coaching came from her health department they have no one with a sophisticated understanding of the issues or that person was not given a say. When asked about adults who rely on ecigs she is naively dismissive. I still say this is a political stunt, not sincere governing.


It might be worth an FOI request for documents from Michigan government departments both for and against this action. Were negative consequences weighed in the decision? If not perhaps there can be an injunction delaying the ban until they have been considered.

 

[rosesense]

Most suppliers seem oblivious to all this garbage but I recently received an email where they acknowledge the craziness and state they are now offering gallons of eliquids. At 350.00 per gallon, I will continue with DIY. At least they are doing something about the madness, I guess.

I am not alert enough to figure out what it would cost me to make a gallon but I know there is substantial savings with DIY.

 

[Detroit Doug]

I was completely blindsided by this ban. However, I can't say I'm too surprised. The vibe I have been receiving lately from regular people around me is that vaping is very bad for you. When I quit a 20 year smoking habit a year and a half ago, I was very excited to tell people that it was all due to vaping. Not so much anymore. More and more, I feel like I'm actually getting lectured about it in ways that I never experienced when I was actually smoking. First, it was about the unknown health problems. Next, it was exploding batteries. Lately, it is lung disease and death. A few months ago, somebody told me that vaping is going to mess me up real bad, moreso than smoking. Just last Saturday, I started vaping around someone who had a lit cigarette in their hand, and they made the comment to me "didn't you hear that people are dying from that". Whenever I bring up the point about the tainted liquid from the street, nobody is having it. When I started going off about the governor to a family member, I was rebutted with "it's no good for you, don't you read the news". I was then asked why I was so worried about it, and don't I have 100 other more important things to worry about. Sorry if starting to smoke cigarettes again is something I worry about. I'm at the point where I don't even want to talk about it to anyone anymore, because nobody seems to understand. Not even the heavy smokers I know that want to quit. They'd rather try cold turkey for the umpteenth time, or use pharmaceuticals. Sorry to say, the media has perpetuated yet another moral panic. The governor surely feels justified with her response to the public hysteria, and it reaffirms her position of power and authority. Like every moral panic, it will one day pass. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

From a fellow Detroiter (western burbs) and Wings fan. Welcome to ECF

 

[sofarsogood]

Most suppliers seem oblivious to all this garbage but I recently received an email where they acknowledge the craziness and state they are now offering gallons of eliquids. At 350.00 per gallon, I will continue with DIY. At least they are doing something about the madness, I guess.

I am not alert enough to figure out what it would cost me to make a gallon but I know there is substantial savings with DIY.

The final rules are not released. Apparently that will take a few weeks. We are told it will be 30 days after that before the rules take effect. Likely lawsuits will be filed after the actual rules are released. Part of the lawsuit will be a request for an injunction to delay enforcement, which a judge will decide.

If the rules turn out as the governor describes it will be legal to sell hardware and unflavored nicotine. I've been mixing and rebuilding for 5 years and most everything I buy is online so I'm not seeing how this would change my access to products.