Mixing by Weight - Are You ??

[Lyndagayle]

I just happen to have a gram scale collecting dust. This all makes perfect sense to me. I will be trying this method with my next mix. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I love it when I learn something new.....and an easier method! I will go to the blog first and read and learn all I can before I begin. Thanks again!

 

[rowdyplace]

I just happen to have a gram scale collecting dust. This all makes perfect sense to me. I will be trying this method with my next mix. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I love it when I learn something new.....and an easier method! I will go to the blog first and read and learn all I can before I begin. Thanks again!

I did too. But, DIY juice making is going to require a scale that can measure down to the .01 gram. My old one wouldn't go below .1 gram so I bought the one I displayed earlier in this thread for under $20.00. It is a good buy. Large enough and cheap enough.

 

[zanedog]

I read the other thread on mixing by weight, and I really like the idea. I tried it once with the scale I already have, but the scale had two problems. One, it's precision is only 0.1 gram and two, it has a battery saving shutoff that was too quick for me.
I feel that for small batches, 0.01 gram would work better.

If anyone has a recommendation for a cheap but adequate scale, I'd would like to hear it.

should be able to get into this one for under 5 grand, thats just guessing.

http://ca.mt.com/ca/en/home/product...lutions/Analytical/XS_Analytical_Balance.html

There is about 20 drops in a ml of water, so each drop would be about 0.05 of a gram, unsure of the density of PG or VG, as my densitometer is at work.

 

[rowdyplace]

See post #71 of this thread.

 

[zanedog]

yeah, but the scale i linked will weight the ink used to write your signature on a sheet of paper. Your juices will be always exactly the same! We need precision!

 

[FaceHole]

Most of the relative densities for TFA/TPA flavors are given in the MSDS sheets, and others such as Hangsen, FlavourArt, etc are easily measured and weighed with a graduated cylinder. Using a calculator such as HotRod's, which remembers ingredients, you only have to do this once. A little more work ahead of time is worth the effort, as mixing by weight combines the ease of dispensing by drops with the accuracy of weighing them digitally, and there is no need for syringes or cleanup.

Yea these are good responses, im sold.

Quick thought... If you were to use the drops per ml setting in a typical mixing app as 100ths of a gram, It would be like calculating the grams for you instead. For example, if one ml weighed one gram, you would set "drops per ml" to 100. If you needed 4.5 mls in a recipe, the "drops" would read 450, which could be translated to 4.5 grams. Anyone see why this wouldnt work?

 

[MarkyD]

Anyone see why this wouldnt work?

Yes, because drop size has high variability. Not only does drop size depend on relative density and viscosity, but also on what its being dispensed from. Differing gauges of syringe tips and dropper tops give a wide variation in drop size. Even the rate at which something is dispensed effects drop size. Weighing what is dispensed eliminates drop size as a factor and increases both accuracy and repeatability of measurement.

 

[zoiDman]

yeah, but the scale i linked will weight the ink used to write your signature on a sheet of paper. Your juices will be always exactly the same! We need precision!

Is there a Point where Precision can Exceed the Ability of a Person to Taste the Different?

 

[disco180]

Is there a Point where Precision can Exceed the Ability of a Person to Taste the Different?

Even if a $20 .01g scale was off by .03g your taste buds would not even know...that's why using the same device over and over again will always give a consistent flavor mix. .01 scales are precision enough for this job even if your recipe called for 1.05 and you overshot it with 1.08 you wouldn't destroy your mix... but I am quite sure with a 1g scale you over shoot by 3g you might get candy watermelon instead of a natural watermelon taste IMO

 

[mxrdrver]

I've been using a 200 gram scale for a couple months now. I now realize I've outgrown it. Most of my bottles are 15 and 30ml glass bottles. However, I do mix my ADV in 120ml bottles. Those, combined with the weight of my ingredients go well over 200 grams. I'm now shopping around for a 300 gram scale with wall plug.

 

[rowdyplace]

Even if a $20 .01g scale was off by .03g your taste buds would not even know...that's why using the same device over and over again will always give a consistent flavor mix. .01 scales are precision enough for this job even if your recipe called for 1.05 and you overshot it with 1.08 you wouldn't destroy your mix... but I am quite sure with a 1g scale you over shoot by 3g you might get candy watermelon instead of a natural watermelon taste IMO

My son is a chemist. He brought 5 different calibration weights home and we found this little scale to be "spot-on"!. (Post #71)
Now if my son was a smoker, he could assist me in making some good juice...

 

[zoiDman]

Yea these are good responses, im sold.

Quick thought... If you were to use the drops per ml setting in a typical mixing app as 100ths of a gram, It would be like calculating the grams for you instead. For example, if one ml weighed one gram, you would set "drops per ml" to 100. If you needed 4.5 mls in a recipe, the "drops" would read 450, which could be translated to 4.5 grams. Anyone see why this wouldnt work?

Drops are a Funny Beast.

Using the Same Dropper and the Same Liquid, the Volume from Drop to Drop is Remarkable Accurate and Precise.

But if I change the Size of Dropper I'm using, for the Same Liquid, I will get a Different Drop Size. The are Still Very Accurate and Precise from drop to drop. But they will have a Different Volume than the Ones I made using the Different Size Dropper.

Drop Size Depends on the Cross Sectional Area of the Dropper Opening, the Viscosity of the Liquid and the Surface Tension of the Liquid.

This is why People say that Drops are Not Accurate (which they Can Be) or Precise (which They Are).

There is Nothing Wrong with using Drops when Doing DIY And those who do, like myself, know that it is Much Easier because there is Much Less to Buy and Wash.

But if you want Repeatability from Batch to Batch then you should use the Same Size Dropper from Batch to Batch.

I measure PG, VG and Nicotine Base using a Graduated Cylinder. And then use Drops to Add the Flavoring and Sweeteners. My Recipes are Completely Repeatable (for Me) and I can Mix Any Amount of Flavored e-Liquid in Any mg/ml or Any PG to VG Ratio and still only have One thing to Wash, a Graduated Cylinder.

---

BTW - The Words "Accurate" and "Precise" are used a lot as if they are Interchangeable. They are Not. They Represent Two Unique Concepts.

Here is a Graphic I have used to teach Students the Differences between the Two.

http://www.farmerengineering.com/ECF/Accurate_and_Percise.jpg

 

[zoiDman]

Even if a $20 .01g scale was off by .03g your taste buds would not even know...that's why using the same device over and over again will always give a consistent flavor mix. .01 scales are precision enough for this job even if your recipe called for 1.05 and you overshot it with 1.08 you wouldn't destroy your mix... but I am quite sure with a 1g scale you over shoot by 3g you might get candy watermelon instead of a natural watermelon taste IMO

For a Home DIY-er, Repeatability from Batch to Batch is what is Important.

Many People get Hung up thinking that the Numbers are Important. They Really Aren't.

Does it Matter if every time you add a Certain Flavoring and want 1.2ml but because your Scale or Syringe or Graduated Cylinder or Drops is Inaccurate you Always get 1.0ml?

If you Like the Taste of your Recipe it Doesn't.

And if you Don't because it Tastes weak, you might Increase your Recipe to 1.5ml (which is Actually 1.3ml by your Measuring Equipment) and now Everything is Taste Great.

 

[FaceHole]

Yes, because drop size has high variability. Not only does drop size depend on relative density and viscosity, but also on what its being dispensed from. Differing gauges of syringe tips and dropper tops give a wide variation in drop size. Even the rate at which something is dispensed effects drop size. Weighing what is dispensed eliminates drop size as a factor and increases both accuracy and repeatability of measurement.

Maybe I didnt explain this very well...
Im not planing on using drops to measure for mixing.

On the calculator im playing with, there is a "drops per ml" setting for each ingredient. Im planning on using that setting to represent 100ths of a gram instead, and setting the values accordingly.

 

[MarkyD]

Maybe I didnt explain this very well...
Im not planing on using drops to measure for mixing.

On the calculator im playing with, there is a "drops per ml" setting for each ingredient. Im planning on using that setting to represent 100ths of a gram instead, and setting the values accordingly.

Yeah, you can calibrate that somewhat against what the scale reads out to give an idea of how much youll need of something. It varies though... VG will be the lowest as it has the highest relative density, and alcohol-based flavors the opposite. PG-based flavors in wizard labs vials with dropper tops work out here with it set to 51 (theyre just under 0.02g/drop).

 

[derogg]

I've been using a 200 gram scale for a couple months now. I now realize I've outgrown it. Most of my bottles are 15 and 30ml glass bottles. However, I do mix my ADV in 120ml bottles. Those, combined with the weight of my ingredients go well over 200 grams. I'm now shopping around for a 300 gram scale with wall plug.

I hear your pain. I have a 20g max milligram scale. The biggest batch I can do is about 10 ml in plastic bottles. But I can get to .001 grams LOL
and even being as .... as I am I usually over shoot my weight, I think I would need to get a 24gauge needle to make that small adjusment. That ought to be fun to push VG through!! It is really way over kill and not practical for doing larger batches, but I had it and will use it until I get a regular old scale. I do enjoy mixing by weight, I find it easier then eyeballing a syringe.
- Dirk

 

[JulesXsmokr]

Large batches are easy for me. I have my pg - vg - and cut nic in 120ml plastic squeeze bottles with dropper tops, ( you can even customize the spout tip for making small batches or large batches,- keep a few of each size around) after you get the hang of how each one dispenses, it goes really fast..All my flavors and add-ins are almost all converted now to dropper bottles. I love the no clean up part..
I have the 100 gram scale and it will do 60 ml plastic bottles.

 

[Lyndagayle]

I did too. But, DIY juice making is going to require a scale that can measure down to the .01 gram. My old one wouldn't go below .1 gram so I bought the one I displayed earlier in this thread for under $20.00. It is a good buy. Large enough and cheap enough.

I just dug mine out and it's 1000 gram limit with .1 graduation.

 

[zanedog]

Yea these are good responses, im sold.

Quick thought... If you were to use the drops per ml setting in a typical mixing app as 100ths of a gram, It would be like calculating the grams for you instead. For example, if one ml weighed one gram, you would set "drops per ml" to 100. If you needed 4.5 mls in a recipe, the "drops" would read 450, which could be translated to 4.5 grams. Anyone see why this wouldnt work?

no you are confused as to how much a drop weighs.

 

[FaceHole]

no you are confused as to how much a drop weighs.

I havent weighed a drop and im not assuming what it weighs... And the 1 gram per ml figure is an example to illustrate the idea.

I would be setting the "drops per ml" figure to show me "100ths of a gram per ml" instead. I would be weighing my ingredients to calibrate this.