Moral/personal decision to make- input would be invaluable and much appreciated!

[NJLG]

Just went to the mall (Lloyd center, for those PDX-savvy) to pick up some shoes (vegan!) and came across a smoke 51 (formerly Smoke Anywhere, I was told) kiosk for the second time. I spent a great deal of time discussing all matters of e-cigs with the guy working there, he was very nice and open minded about my views and PV (Riva and eGo) which I happily vaped along with him, and let him try.

I do not harbor much respect for companies such as smoke 51 because, well, for the obvious reasons. I feel like it's kinda dishonest to be selling people PV's for 90-200 bucks when they could be getting a better one for 50 bucks. I wouldn't immediately dismiss someone who represents a company like that, though, especially the kid working there- he was, after all, just trying to make a buck, and it just so happens he was selling e-cigs doing that. I do believe, however, that spreading the word and turning people on to e-cigs is inherently a good thing.

However, I am wary of the methods and views people and companies use to sell and spread the word about products they endorse. I highly value the honest, underground, consumer-run sort of community that the e-cig industry has underneath it- for example, this forum. I am thrilled by the nature of this industry to be so conscious and knowledgable of what it is buying and selling, and that is a RARE THING nowadays, I think. I despise the increasingly corporate methods of some businesses in every industry, and that those habits do everyone a disservice only with the exception of the people at the top who reap 90% of the profits, know what I mean? I don't want to support that.

Anyway, back to my story. I questioned the employee of smoke-51 about his job and views on e-cigs and shared my views too. He seems to be making much better money selling e-cigs and sitting around vaping all day than I do working at a grocery store and dealing with bottle returns and bums and %@#%@ customers all day. He said that I could probably get a job doing what he's doing, switching off working at two different malls and selling e-cigs all day. My question that I REALLY need your help answering is - Can I do this with a clear conscience? It would substantially be more financially and emotionally fulfilling for me personally, but is it worth the arguable cost of supporting the potential poisoning of our cherished community?

What are your points of view on this subject, guys? I could really use some help making this decision. I left a note for the owner of the kiosk with my name, number, and explained that I have previous knowledge and experience with e-cigs. Should I go for this if I get a call?? I hope this doesn't come across as self-important, I just want to make sure I'm making a good decision. Also, sorry for being so long-winded. It's either all or nothing when I'm trying to express myself, I'm afraid.

TIA yall

 

[schaedj]

Wow, tough call. From a practical standpoint, do you think you'd be able to sell them without telling people about the forum and all of the other possibilities out there? I don't think I would. I'd probably lose the job after a week when the boss discovered the sales on my shift were zero...

On the other hand, you could take the perspective that you are giving people a (very expensive) introduction to e-cigs, and the value of that lesson is high. If, after you sell them the unit, you hand them a card for the forum and let them know there's more info out there (call it a support group for people who want to switch to vaping), you could consider yourself to be helping them, even though it's costing them for the lesson. I'd be willing to give $100. to the guy who introduced me to the forum and the wealth of knowledge (and good people) out here.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

NJLG

Couple things:
1) Smoke 51 and Smoking Everywhere are two different companies
2) Without kiosks 90% of the people that vape, wouldn't vape.

Yes, pricing is outrageous, BUT, kiosks have higher overhead than you standard Ecig Vendor working out of their house.

I would say go for it! Put the pricing/politics to the side, and help people out

 

[smokum]

She said Smoke "Anywhere" which are the smoke51 group, not "Everywhere" which is a different company.

You are right about the cost of kiosks which are reflected in their pricing. For 1st exposure, and certain buyer types, its the only option offering a hands on purchase as opposed to online shopping for a "new idea". This option warrants the higher price, provided of course the owner/operator stands by their stated warranties.

Smoke51 was the first e-cig I purchased and at the time I thought it was GREAT. That is, until I learned heaps more following finding ECF and all the other options out there. But I'll always remember my first purchase !! and have zero regrets at my intro to the world of vaping.

VapeOn,
Greg

 

[Slickstick]

The Kiosk prices may be the normal when these are taxed and regulated.
Every stop to think we are lucky to have these inexpensive prices?

But yea.. they should be as cheap as possible so we can switch from smoking.

A friend of mine works at a kiosk. They are VERY expensive to rent, that's why there are high prices.

 

[Mathew R Taylor]

I'd ring in and say I'd have the same dilemma, but as Cashmere says I was motivated to start researching the topic when I saw this in my local mall. I may have been tempted to drop way more coin on a higher priced product for an informative salesperson.

If you go into it though, your personal feelings need to be left aside as it's all about the close, right? Are you willing to go days / weeks with no cash because of ethics? Your paycheck and continued job likely will have to have a decently high close rate, or you may be on a pure commission rather than a base and commission. That, and if you don't fully believe in your product, it will (consciously or not) affect your sales.

The question I guess becomes what are you willing to do to be more comfortable? We've all had to make tough choices in our past, present and future. If the potential to make more cash in the short term by selling what you stand for is better than the low risk, low potential for betterment of your current job (in your mind) the answer is take the plunge, if it's no then wait for the next eCig opportunity (and there will definitely be more)....

My $2

Mathew

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

I'm with Cash on this. Companies like Smoke51, Smoking Everywhere, NJoy, and SmokeStik (loved the Katherine Heigl spot on Letterman) have put e-cigs in the face of millions of people. It costs them an awful lot of money to do so. What they sell really aren't bad products. [E9s and RN4081s do have a loyal following.] And the people who purchase them are paying a reasonable price for not having to plow through the Internet to find ECF and then plow through ECF to learn enough to make an informed decision. The wisest of them (us) wind up here sooner or later anyway.

A Smoke51 in the hand may be worth two 510s in the bush. [I say '510' in deference to the masses; my loyalty is to the 801 and its brethren.]

 

[ropetrick]

I started vaping with a fairly bad mall kiosk model (Quantum). Without it, I wouldn't have known.

People will buy if they can afford, and if they value it. If they balk at the price, then you have some options to discuss with them if you're the underhanded honest type. ;-)

Almost everyone in retail sells inferior products or over-priced products every day. Every grocery store is packed full of terrible stuff. Bad from health, environmental, philosophical, and almost any other point of view. But thank god people work there.

You shouldn't feel nearly as bad about selling crappy, expensive PVs as you would about selling analogs or booze or trans fats. When you sell a terrible kit, there's a good chance you're adding an eventual smarter consumer to this community. They'll be cursing you, sure, but in a way they should be thanking you for the intro to vaping.

 

[AttyPops]

Smoke 51 trio was my first e-cig, purchased at a brick-and-mortar shop. Not too bad, I think it was $40.00 for a 1 battery + charger + atty + carts kind of thing. Now I know it was a little expensive, but not too bad for trying it out. Anyway, I found out later that it is a 510 connection, and I even still have the battery. Dumped the atty carts a long time ago.

The point is that the mall kiosk is usually the most expensive option for any make/model. I don't know if you are limited to that. It wasn't a bad model to "spread the word" with.

 

[OldDragon]

The only thing I would add, being that you alread know alot about e-cigs, you would be able to help them start without too much hassle. Also, there are a lot of people that still don't have computers or even what the internet is about. The thing at the mall will be the only time they would have contact with e-cigs. And if you can get them past the first starting point for e-cigs, you may make their life a lot better in the long run.

 

[andygee]

The Kiosk prices may be the normal when these are taxed and regulated.
Every stop to think we are lucky to have these inexpensive prices?

why will they be taxed more than ordinary sales tax? regulation is a separate issue; then they'll only be available in drug stores,

 

[andygee]

speaking as someone who worked his way up from schlub to senior executive, here would be my solution to your moral dilemma:

start at the kiosk and then start sending memos about (1) your personal knowledge of buying and spending habits of real electronic cigarette users, and (2) alternative retail models such as tupperware parties or mobile vans. you'll make VP before you're old enough to shave. then you can have your girl call my girl and we can have lunch.
this really works, by the way -- all good business owners are always looking for fresh ideas and insight.

 

[Sainted_S]

The only thing I would add, being that you alread know alot about e-cigs, you would be able to help them start without too much hassle. Also, there are a lot of people that still don't have computers or even what the internet is about. The thing at the mall will be the only time they would have contact with e-cigs. And if you can get them past the first starting point for e-cigs, you may make their life a lot better in the long run.

I strongly agree that it's a good thing for alot of older smokers who, for more immediate health reasons need to stop smoking analogs. Many in the older generation aren't going to bother with coming online and going through the riggamarole of ordering from 2 or 3 different suppliers and certainly not everyone is going to wade through the information. Another consideration is that many prospective vapers won't "trust" items from the net.

You can ease your conscience about selling highly marked up items by knowing that you believe in the positive changes that will come to your future customers. You can put your heart into it when you explain about why vaping is better. You are extremely informed and you can give that knowledge to your customers. You can quell the fears that they have about this new product and you can be there for them in their journey to better health when they need answers. It is a question of ethics, but truthfully, the more people that are converted to vaping, the less people with health problems and the harder it will be for big tobacco, the FDA and the pharmaceutical companies to take away this wondrous product.

grrrr,,,,that was a bit inflated, but I meant it.

 

[NJLG]

I feel so blessed by all of your insight guys! I just want to give a general THANK YOU! to everyone who shared their thoughts- it really means a lot to me and has definitely provided some clarity. I will get to personal responses ASAP. Thanks again, definitely invaluable insight.

 

[KILLERkpd]

Having the access to ecigs in a mall kiosk will add cost to the prodcut you are trying to sell. You can buy the same ecig offline and pay less, but you have to wait for it, and there is no human interaction for questions, concerns etc....all this adds cost to what you are selling, rental space for the kiosk, money to pay for someone to bet here all day, all this is again, added cost. I would not necessarily call it adding value because that is more based upon the individual working rather than teh product they are selling.

I would say to go for it only becuase you can be honest with people, base your information off of expriene rather than speculation. If people want to research their purchase then more power to them, but most will be impulse buyers, who see the kiosk, and upon talking to the person working there, will make a purchase or walk away.

 

[DC2]

I left a note for the owner of the kiosk with my name, number, and explained that I have previous knowledge and experience with e-cigs. Should I go for this if I get a call??

If the owner is aware of your knowledge and experience with e-cigs, I doubt you'll get the call.
And if you send anybody to ECF for help and guidance, you would essentially be undermining the owner's business model.

 

[foggy1]

While your knowlege of vaping will help many
I would consider it as a temporary job
When someone comes back to complain that you
knowingly ripped them off,
how will you feel ?
now if they offer full refunds, I would go for it
please let us know how this works out

 

[andygee]

You can buy the same ecig offline and pay less, but you have to wait for it, and there is no human interaction for questions, concerns etc....

Let me say that internet store owners and staff have been very helpful in answering al of my questions and recommeding the right stuff. Especially the guy at Litecigusa once i got the hillbilly-to-city slicker module for Babelfish to work; without him I don't think I would have made the jump to hand refilling.

 

[wmrwl]

Just because the prices are higher doesn't automatically mean they're doing anything wrong. They do have much higher overhead. You can buy many items online for less money than you would pay in a brick and morter retail store. Some people still choose not to even shop online. They are knowingly willing to pay higher prices. Some people prefer to do business face to face. You can probably buy more than 90% of what's available in the entire mall online cheaper. The people who shop in the mall know this, but there's something to be said about seeing and touching a product that the internet will never be able to do.

Do you think people at Best Buy can't sleep at night because you can buy hard drives cheaper on NewEgg.com? You said you work at a grocery store...do you feel bad that people can get much better deals at Costco? You would actually be doing the customers a favor by being a knowledgeable sales rep.

Pricing is driven by so many dynamic variables and, contrary to popular belief, greed is rarely one of those variables.

If I were you I would do it and be proud to make a difference. You would literally be saving people's lives.

 

[Willriker]

Just because the prices are higher doesn't automatically mean they're doing anything wrong. They do have much higher overhead. You can buy many items online for less money than you would pay in a brick and morter retail store. Some people still choose not to even shop online. They are knowingly willing to pay higher prices. Some people prefer to do business face to face. You can probably buy more than 90% of what's available in the entire mall online cheaper. The people who shop in the mall know this, but there's something to be said about seeing and touching a product that the internet will never be able to do.

Do you think people at Best Buy can't sleep at night because you can buy hard drives cheaper on NewEgg.com? You said you work at a grocery store...do you feel bad that people can get much better deals at Costco? You would actually be doing the customers a favor by being a knowledgeable sales rep.

Pricing is driven by so many dynamic variables and, contrary to popular belief, greed is rarely one of those variables.

If I were you I would do it and be proud to make a difference. You would literally be saving people's lives.

This is the way i veiw the issue at hand. Its not like these guys are making a sale every 15 minutes from every kiosk. Often, yoooull see these guys explaining the product over and over again. And lets face it, there are a lot of questions to ask about these units and the liquids used. It can easily be like 30 minutes of conversation folloed by the consumer leaving the kiosk. Perhaps thy will come back to purchase later, or maybe they are just going to pass this information onto a loved one.

At anyrate, when they do make a sale, they need to pay for all tat time they spent explaining the product to other people that did not purchase anything just to meet the overhead/staffing costs. While i do agree that i can purchase these elsewhere, i do understand what is involved with educating a potential customer enough hat they will feel good about purchasing a unit.

I really wouldnt think of it as ripping people off, its just the cost of doing buisness. Websites do not need to worry about this, they can type all that information once and never need to spend any more time explaining it. Often times, they might not need to even do that, with resources like this forum available.