My company segment banned vapor devices everywhere smoking is banned.

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zombienerd

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Folks, I am at a loss for words. My segment has banned vaporizers (even nicotine free units) from being used everywhere cigarettes are currently prohibited.I am a commercial sailor, I live 8 months out of the year on a ship. These ships have designated smoking areas. I have been going back and forth with the company for three days now trying to get them to rethink their position, but have so far been unsuccessful.

The gentleman who wrote the policy read one story on the WHO website and decided with the stroke of a pen and the tap of a keyboard to make my life difficult.He doesn't seem to get that using a vapor pen is not the same as using a cigarette... I can't take one break once an hour to suck down a cancer stick. I use my device 1-2 puffs every 10 minutes. He doesn't understand that the nicotine uptake is completely different with these devices.With my first email to him, I at least got him to concede to separate assigned areas for the few of us who are vapers, so we don't have to deal with the second hand smoke. But I've been trying to poke holes in his logic in each subsequent email, but his cognitive dissonance is very strong.

The policy as written states "Smoking means use of smoke or vapor producing nicotine delivery products.".. I then asked him what would be the policy on devices that have no nicotine, as you can get nicotine free juice. He stated that they can still have trace chemicals that are unsafe, so they're the same. I pointed out that without nicotine, vapor devices are no more than food items using food ingredients, and that if he has an issue with those ingredients, they're going to have to seriously rethink what they feed us, because people are eating this stuff every day from the galley.

I have sent links to studies, tests, double blind peer reviewed experiments, but he obviously won't even bother to read them. I pointed out that the few Government tests that have produced the results he is so concerned about were conducted on pre-filled cartridges from China, which had only trace amounts of TSNA's (in the parts per billion range), and that it was pushed by big tobacco because they're losing their profits as vapers leave their customer base. I mentioned that US made juice, especially from a AEMSA certified merchant, is much safer than the overseas cartridges that have been tested by the FDA. I gave him several PDF's of recent studies and tests, including one recent peer-reviewed study by BMC that showed there is no 2nd hand effects with vaporizers.

I am at a loss at where to go next. The corporate wide policy does not have anything about vaporizers on the books, but somehow this individual thought it was necessary to go "above and beyond" to because of a few things he read.

Any advice is appreciated, talking points and such (although I feel as I've already covered most of it).I am not going to mention my company's name, but it is the USA.
 
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TheColdHandedVG

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Maybe someone complained about you using it? Honestly, if that's the case, you should just be more careful about using it around others. If it got to the point of being banned there must have been a few vapers using their device in the wrong place. Just because it isn't going to cause harm to someone doesn't mean they should have to sit in your vapor... I don't think it should be banned from less populated areas, like maybe where you are sleeping, but I wouldn't be using the device around other people that don't smoke/vape anyways..
 

Steam Turbine

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May 3, 2013
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This will not go well with a lot of people... But I'll say it.

Your company as the right to prohibit what ever they want, whether its drinking coolaid while working or vaping...

I understand your frustration and appreciate your attempt at convincing them otherwise. But if they won't listen to reason, there's not much else to be done... I guess you can keep trying
 

Timactionfigures

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All these "vaping banned!" stories are really starting to p*ss me off!

Not 20 years ago people smoked EVERYWHERE! In restaurants, in front of children, in front of strangers, at the beach/pool, in parks, EVERYWHERE!

Not saying it's right, but what the .......! happened to this country in a mere 20 years that we can't now exhale VAPOR even outdoors?!?!

You're on a freakin' BOAT! On the ocean! The damn horrific VAPOR (oh god no!) probably dissipates immediately! God what a bunch of P*SSIES there are out there! And they all somehow seem to be in command.

More harm coming from the diesel exhaust of the boat you're on than in the vape! Jeezuz christ! :mad:

Sorry had to vent. It's pathetic!
 

Topwater Elvis

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Dec 26, 2012
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All these "vaping banned!" stories are really starting to p*ss me off!

Not 20 years ago people smoked EVERYWHERE! In restaurants, in front of children, in front of strangers, at the beach/pool, in parks, EVERYWHERE!

Not saying it's right, but what the .......! happened to this country in a mere 20 years that we can't now exhale VAPOR even outdoors?!?!

You're on a freakin' BOAT! On the ocean! The damn horrific VAPOR (oh god no!) probably dissipates immediately! God what a bunch of P*SSIES there are out there! And they all somehow seem to be in command.

More harm coming from the diesel exhaust of the boat you're on than in the vape! Jeezuz christ! :mad:

Sorry had to vent. It's pathetic!

The proliferation of the 'I know what is best for you and everyone else' control freak / safety police anti everything they don't agree with zealots..
The worst part is 'we' (collectively) put them in positions of power.
 

zombienerd

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Maybe someone complained about you using it? Honestly, if that's the case, you should just be more careful about using it around others. If it got to the point of being banned there must have been a few vapers using their device in the wrong place. Just because it isn't going to cause harm to someone doesn't mean they should have to sit in your vapor... I don't think it should be banned from less populated areas, like maybe where you are sleeping, but I wouldn't be using the device around other people that don't smoke/vape anyways..
I never used mine in the common areas, just my room and office. There are 5-6 other people in the fleet who use them, and they follow the same general guidelines.I am sure someone complained, but that is just what some people do. "He's using something I don't understand, let me see if I can find a study that says it's bad".
 

zombienerd

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This will not go well with a lot of people... But I'll say it.Your company as the right to prohibit what ever they want, whether its drinking coolaid while working or vaping...I understand your frustration and appreciate your attempt at convincing them otherwise. But if they won't listen to reason, there's not much else to be done... I guess you can keep trying
The odd thing is I agree... It is a private company, and they have the right to ban things in the workplace.However, being that one small segment is making up their own rules that haven't been audited by the corporation as a whole still gives me a chance. If he doesn't give enough ground to include staterooms and offices, then I will take it up the chain of command all the way to the international president if I have to.
 

zombienerd

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So you will have to vape in a designated smoking area?
That was the original procedure written, yes. After I said that I refuse to be around people smoking, he said he would talk to the captains of the fleet to designate separate areas for vaping. I was really hoping that my original mail would make him realize the absurdity of this, but he seems to have bitten it like a pit bull on a ham bone.
 

zombienerd

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The studies on the CASAA website are as good as it gets for educating / informing those that need it. Doesn't the captain have the last word with what happens on board after leaving port?
Yes, I sent several. I doubt he read them.. He just responded with a cut and paste from a news story that the WHO published last week.He doesnt' seem to realize that big tobacco is pushing all the anti-studies, and the data is suspect at best. Independent peer-reviewed studies are the only way to go, and most of them are in our favor at this time.
 

TheColdHandedVG

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I never used mine in the common areas, just my room and office. There are 5-6 other people in the fleet who use them, and they follow the same general guidelines.I am sure someone complained, but that is just what some people do. "He's using something I don't understand, let me see if I can find a study that says it's bad".

Yeah, that's true. People are scared of the unknown; it's built in our DNA, it's just instinct. Can't blame them. I feel bad for you though, good luck!
 

zombienerd

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I was able to garner some concessions from the higher ups. Captains can now allow vaping in staterooms and other private rooms on a case by case basis. Long story short, I can now vape in my stateroom and office, which are the only indoor places I did it anyway. Several more emails went back and forth to get this result. Showing them the rigorous standards from the AEMSA that ecblend is certified by really helped. Using logic seems to have at least won today's battle, but the war wages on.
 

Panorama911

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I will be willing to bet this policy was done "in all fairness", simply put, it was done to be fair to smokers. Don't get me wrong I am not siding with the company but if they allow one to exist the other will complain, visa versa, so to prevent such from happening they banned both usages.

To make a decision based on very little information that is available as of now, they just "folded" and said no to all use and until there is "concrete" information that proves e cig usage is safe, this decision making will continue on. This is not the first nor will it be the last company to ban it.

WE KNOW IT IS SAFE, but they need concrete proof/evidence, and our word just is NOT enough to change the course.
 
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