Vapping banned at work, but the ignorant statements...
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Can't you just envision the open-mouthed, slack-jawed, utter confusion on their faces? Really, battle of wits with the unarmed. I've despaired of all the stupid people most of my life, but finding out most of them are in politics, well that just really takes the cake.
Andria
It really tells us much about the ANTZ's stupidity. No better way to describe it.
Let's see... I'm an ANTZ. I hate tobacco and anything tobacco-related. If it depended on ME alone, I would forbid tobacco righ this minute.
But I do not make the laws. The only thing I can do, is try to persuade my Government to make those laws for me.
But here's the catch: the more my Government is hooked to the fabulous revenues created by excise taxes, the more difficult it will be to convince them to create anti-smoking laws that are ACTUALLY effective! (Remember the "flavouring" ban, with the most convenient menthol exception? When more than half of young smokers use MENTHOL cigarettes? That's what I'm talking about.)
In their blind hate against smokers, ANTZ's are actually making it more difficult to fight tobacco - because their objective has slowly moved from "fighting tobacco and tobacco-related health concerns" to "punishing the obnoxious smoker with more and more taxes".
Oh, absolutely. The only thing they DON'T hate about tobacco is that it kills smokers! But they'd rather just take the tobacco completely away so that we want to kill ourselves -- don't you know if they did that, they'd then make a law forbidding a former smoker from committing suicide! Just so we could suffer more! They don't give a rat's patootie about "tobacco-related health concerns", they just want to punish all the "obnoxious" people with smoke/vapor coming from their mouth!
Andria
Ever since I got into the vaping scene. One thought has been a total mind bender for me.
On what grounds can a country ban E-cig but allow the continued use and sale of regular tobacco.
This I had to get an answer to.
So it came to pass that I had the opportunity of speaking to somebody who passed this law in one of the Saudi countries.
Can you guess why ?
It was not big tobacco. There is no big Tobacco in these countries. The govt is so oil rich they done even tax tobacco.
This gets interesting. Most of the locals done even smoke cigies. They do the hookah.
So I had to get to the bottom of this.
You would never in a million years have thought about this.
The reason it was banned was because there was already a ban on smoking in public places. Which people followed.
Then you had guys trying to smoke e-cig in these places. When the staff / police / security tried to stop them because somebody else complained they would take out literature like the stuff 10 Motives prints on their boxes.
Which states this is safe to smoke anywhere. And stick it under their noses. See here it says on the box.
And arguments would ensue. This happened a few times and the issue was escalated up the Govt chain.
When it came up for discussion. The power that be just made a call to ban it. They couldn't be bothered about explaining it to the e-cig users that people where objecting to their vaping. And they should not vape in public.
Easier to just ban it.
This was an eye opener for me. Im sorry I cant take names but the place Im talking about is Doha.
Another thing happened the other day which upset me.
I was standing on a street corner where there where a bunch of guys smoking. So I thought Id have a few hits.
Took out my VTR and took a few hits.
A guy taps me on my shoulder and asks me to move on. Funny thing the guy was smoking himself.
I look like a white guy. So didnt want any trouble with locals. So I just moved on.
On my way back. After I had composed my self a bit. I stroke up a conversation with the guy in his local lingo Tamil.
(How people react to you in this country is based on which part of the country you are in. And if you can speak the local lingo or not).
Seeing I was speaking his lingo. His hostility and arrogance was toned down a bit.
I asked him why he objected to me smoking when he him self was smoking.
Had I brought up the question earlier in English or Hindhi things would have turned nasty fast.
The guy is a qualified engineer so not like he is a clueless rickshaw puller.
His answer was simple. We guys are smoking cigies. God knows what the hell your smoking in that contraption it smells funny. We dont know and we dont want to know. And we certainly dont want any of it getting into our system.
Once I explained what it was he said he would look it up online. But I could tell he was still not cool with me smoking it in his presence.
This is not going to be an easy fight. And most times its got little to nothing to do with big tobacco. Though I do blame them for publish BS news articles. That create panic and fear in the mind of the public. They will spend 2 pages explaining how 2nd hand nicotine is dangerous. And in the last line they will say there is no conclusive info. Most people reading it. Take away the wrong message.
Nobody even notices the last line.
We as vapers also know very little. We think we know whats going on. But trust me when I say many dont really have a clue.
My own case I was feeling sick as a dog smoking some FT Juice.
Figured it out by accident that if I switched brands I felt better. Thought I had it figured Im allergic to PG. How anybody can vape PG stuff that can strip paint. That the vapour is so harsh it burns your throat. Oh smart me figured it all out.
Then one day by mistake I land up smoking pure PG from a unlabeled bottle. What happens ?. Nothing. So its not just the PG but the quality of PG.
Maybe in America your Govt protects you. Does quality checks etc. But this is not the case world wide.
Our only hope is to back off on these issues. And gently educate the people around us.
I don't think there will ever be a day when the general public will ever calmly accept our clouds of Vapor.
As vapors this is something we will need to learn to live with. Fighting it is pointless.
The sooner you accept it the better.
Initially I was a big e-cig evalingist. Preaching from the roof tops.
Then I was called aside and told. Listen up guy. You want to vape. Vape. Just dont talk about it.
Your drawing too much attention to the scene. If too many people come to know about this. They will just change the rules. And then we will all suffer.
Long story short. Vape on quietly. Dont rock the boat. People have closed minds. Nobody gives a .... about what the studies say or dont say. Its not going to change their opinion on the subject. If God gave you note saying it was safe to vape in public. You would still have people objecting to your vaping.
On what grounds can a country ban E-cig but allow the continued use and sale of regular tobacco.
This I had to get an answer to.
So it came to pass that I had the opportunity of speaking to somebody who passed this law in one of the Saudi countries.
Can you guess why ?
It was not big tobacco. There is no big Tobacco in these countries. The govt is so oil rich they done even tax tobacco.
This gets interesting. Most of the locals done even smoke cigies. They do the hookah.
So I had to get to the bottom of this.
You would never in a million years have thought about this.
The reason it was banned was because there was already a ban on smoking in public places. Which people followed.
Then you had guys trying to smoke e-cig in these places. When the staff / police / security tried to stop them because somebody else complained they would take out literature like the stuff 10 Motives prints on their boxes.
Which states this is safe to smoke anywhere. And stick it under their noses. See here it says on the box.
And arguments would ensue. This happened a few times and the issue was escalated up the Govt chain.
When it came up for discussion. The power that be just made a call to ban it. They couldn't be bothered about explaining it to the e-cig users that people where objecting to their vaping. And they should not vape in public.
Easier to just ban it.
This was an eye opener for me. Im sorry I cant take names but the place Im talking about is Doha.
Another thing happened the other day which upset me.
I was standing on a street corner where there where a bunch of guys smoking. So I thought Id have a few hits.
Took out my VTR and took a few hits.
A guy taps me on my shoulder and asks me to move on. Funny thing the guy was smoking himself.
I look like a white guy. So didnt want any trouble with locals. So I just moved on.
On my way back. After I had composed my self a bit. I stroke up a conversation with the guy in his local lingo Tamil.
(How people react to you in this country is based on which part of the country you are in. And if you can speak the local lingo or not).
Seeing I was speaking his lingo. His hostility and arrogance was toned down a bit.
I asked him why he objected to me smoking when he him self was smoking.
Had I brought up the question earlier in English or Hindhi things would have turned nasty fast.
The guy is a qualified engineer so not like he is a clueless rickshaw puller.
His answer was simple. We guys are smoking cigies. God knows what the hell your smoking in that contraption it smells funny. We dont know and we dont want to know. And we certainly dont want any of it getting into our system.
Once I explained what it was he said he would look it up online. But I could tell he was still not cool with me smoking it in his presence.
This is not going to be an easy fight. And most times its got little to nothing to do with big tobacco. Though I do blame them for publish BS news articles. That create panic and fear in the mind of the public. They will spend 2 pages explaining how 2nd hand nicotine is dangerous. And in the last line they will say there is no conclusive info. Most people reading it. Take away the wrong message.
Nobody even notices the last line.
We as vapers also know very little. We think we know whats going on. But trust me when I say many dont really have a clue.
My own case I was feeling sick as a dog smoking some FT Juice.
Figured it out by accident that if I switched brands I felt better. Thought I had it figured Im allergic to PG. How anybody can vape PG stuff that can strip paint. That the vapour is so harsh it burns your throat. Oh smart me figured it all out.
Then one day by mistake I land up smoking pure PG from a unlabeled bottle. What happens ?. Nothing. So its not just the PG but the quality of PG.
Maybe in America your Govt protects you. Does quality checks etc. But this is not the case world wide.
Our only hope is to back off on these issues. And gently educate the people around us.
I don't think there will ever be a day when the general public will ever calmly accept our clouds of Vapor.
As vapors this is something we will need to learn to live with. Fighting it is pointless.
The sooner you accept it the better.
Initially I was a big e-cig evalingist. Preaching from the roof tops.
Then I was called aside and told. Listen up guy. You want to vape. Vape. Just dont talk about it.
Your drawing too much attention to the scene. If too many people come to know about this. They will just change the rules. And then we will all suffer.
Long story short. Vape on quietly. Dont rock the boat. People have closed minds. Nobody gives a .... about what the studies say or dont say. Its not going to change their opinion on the subject. If God gave you note saying it was safe to vape in public. You would still have people objecting to your vaping.
I have to respectfully disagree, ronchinoy.
Maybe in some countries it is bad to go against the governing bodies. In the countries that still allow freedom of speech, I say fight with facts. Educate when possible. Be respectful always but fight for this healthier alternative.
As to our government that protects us...... I don't know whether they really do care about us anymore. That makes me sad. If they do not see that this (e-cigarette) is helping those of us who wish to get away from smoking but yet are trying to stop it from doing so........
As to the quality of ingredients, our community does a great job of calling out and exposing those that do use inferior product or unsafe practices. Look up Box Elder on ECF. Our members found a company that was mixing dangerous levels of nic and did not measure properly. The vaping community jumped right on getting this out into the open and warning members about this company. It probably happened faster because there was no "Government red tape" to go through. Word of mouth always moves faster than the government. LOL
These are just my thoughts on the subject.
Maybe in some countries it is bad to go against the governing bodies. In the countries that still allow freedom of speech, I say fight with facts. Educate when possible. Be respectful always but fight for this healthier alternative.
As to our government that protects us...... I don't know whether they really do care about us anymore. That makes me sad. If they do not see that this (e-cigarette) is helping those of us who wish to get away from smoking but yet are trying to stop it from doing so........
As to the quality of ingredients, our community does a great job of calling out and exposing those that do use inferior product or unsafe practices. Look up Box Elder on ECF. Our members found a company that was mixing dangerous levels of nic and did not measure properly. The vaping community jumped right on getting this out into the open and warning members about this company. It probably happened faster because there was no "Government red tape" to go through. Word of mouth always moves faster than the government. LOL
These are just my thoughts on the subject.
Read your entire post and some of it I found very interesting. Most of it is pertinent to this discussion. But is a take on things I disagree with. Thing that I heard you saying (but didn't actually say) is that there will always be at least two (opposed) ways of looking at this. That exists with most things, including smoking.
I essentially refuse to have the objectors win the public vaping argument and also realize they can't win, as you (or I) can vape in public and if you aren't drawing attention to yourself, no one will be the wiser. Unless bans on public vaping are met with capital punishment and special equipment that can monitor all nooks and crannies in public, there will always be a way to vape in public and people that do.
You mentioned vaping on a street corner and then implied that not even that is a good place to vape because of objection. Here in the US, that isn't even on the table for these sort of discussions. All vapers, that I'm aware of, are okay with outdoors public vaping and yet I agree with what you were getting across, that for our objectors, that doesn't matter. They think it will still possibly harm them or just looks bad to be that brazen about the activity and so easy solution seems like ban it.
Respectful vaping (everywhere) is the way to go. As that will vary from individual to individual, then I think we are good to go. Almost all vapers, I think, agree that it is disrespectful to exhale vapor directly (and intentionally) into another person's face. I don't see much variation there, and hence respectful vaping has at least one criteria that I think we all agree on. The other criteria may not be so clear cut, but I think if us who discuss this weekly set a positive example then it helps going forward. Doesn't make our zealous opposition change their tune, but in reality nothing will. Plus, if we roll over on public vaping, they may go for third hand vapor and that's not a bridge I even want to get to. Reality is it has already been floated out there, but as the SHV debate is still playing out, then THV is something that remains on back burner.
If it is perfectly okay to object to public vaping, then it is also perfectly okay to object to those objectors. And here in the US, that sort of objection will likely be something to run with for at least another 5 years.
I'll also just note that "don't vape where you can't smoke" says to me, a dual user, that I may as well just smoke there. Not like I'm in those type of places all that often, so why not just smoke?
Imagine what it says to someone who hasn't made the switch yet. Why would heavy smoker stop smoking to go ahead and vape in the smoking section?
Would you go to a bar just to drink soda? Perhaps you would if half the people around you were saying the only reasonable place to drink soda is where alcohol is being served.
Imagine what it says to someone who hasn't made the switch yet. Why would heavy smoker stop smoking to go ahead and vape in the smoking section?
Would you go to a bar just to drink soda? Perhaps you would if half the people around you were saying the only reasonable place to drink soda is where alcohol is being served.
You hammered that nail squarely on its head with this one, Jman.
I don't go to bars at all, because since I stopped being a drunk, I found out how obnoxious they are. Beautiful analogy, considering how obnoxious cigarette smoke is to those who don't partake of them at all -- why would I want to vape something delicious while surrounded by that stench? Mind you, I'm also currently a dual user, so at the moment the smell doesn't bother me, but that won't be continuing much longer -- once I'm free of smoking again, I'm sure it will smell as nasty to me as it did when I was smoke-free before, and I certainly wouldn't want to hang out in a cloud of smoke just to vape!Andria
Just take smoke breaks. 
Sure, it's not as comfortable as vaping inside, but you get to leave work more often.
Sure, it's not as comfortable as vaping inside, but you get to leave work more often.
FDA accepted treatment of job stress. Chain smoke over the counter Marlboros and get cancer or see a Doctor and get medication that makes you go psychotic and kill your co-workers. I think I prefer vaping. Thanks FDA for your wonderful acceptable choices.
And there should only be club soda because all those others are gateways. Coke->Rum. Remember adults don't like coke.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This.
Take the EU example: the ban on swedish Snus has NOT been lifted in Europe in the new TPD.
AFAIK, Sweden is the only country in the EU where snus can be used.
But snus use is spread along other Scandinavian countries as well.
Long-term studies/statistics show us that:
Those countries have the lowest rate of smokers and smoking-related ilnesses in all Europe.
Those countries have the lowest smoking prevalence in Europe.
None of the arguments used against the e-cig became true with snus. for example, "The 'childrun' will start using snus and then
moving to tobacco cigarettes". Yes, that argument was used before...
Anyway, "in our best interest", the EU is about to sue Denmark for still allowing the sale of snus.
In a country were few people smoke, where smoking is legal, and where snus is clearly responsible for keeping a lot of people away from deadly tobacco.
So, no. The Comission is NOT concerned about European citizen's health.
ELECTED officials have turned down the attemped e-cig medicalization route on the last 08th October.
A month and an half after, NON-elected bureoucrats lobbied to have e-cigs included in the new TDP, and to keep the snus ban.
That's "democracy" and "concern" for you...
EU sues Denmark for failing to ban snus - The Local
And based on some of the replies. I was starting to think maybe things in the USA are different.
But they are not. You have Americans who want the Govt and the FDA to get involved just because they do not want to stand next to somebody vaping in a line.
Read the first 3 comments here. I was spot on. About my observations. The more you fight for your right to vape in public the more the Govt and FDA is going to be cheered onto getting involved.
You cant fight this. And trying to fight for the right to vape is just going to hurt the cause. Wisen up.
The change will come. It will come when Big T start to market their one e-cig solutions. Then we will be hit with a media blitz about how harmless it is.
Till then vape in Pvt. And for gods sake stop rocking the boat.
Enjoy
Up In Vapor
But they are not. You have Americans who want the Govt and the FDA to get involved just because they do not want to stand next to somebody vaping in a line.
Read the first 3 comments here. I was spot on. About my observations. The more you fight for your right to vape in public the more the Govt and FDA is going to be cheered onto getting involved.
You cant fight this. And trying to fight for the right to vape is just going to hurt the cause. Wisen up.
The change will come. It will come when Big T start to market their one e-cig solutions. Then we will be hit with a media blitz about how harmless it is.
Till then vape in Pvt. And for gods sake stop rocking the boat.
Enjoy
Up In Vapor
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There will never be a blitz of happy news if BT is involved.
Its not a right to vape it's fighting to not be restricted as smoking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This logic does not compute.
So if we keep our vape in private, they will not pass laws that make us keep our vape in private?
So basically, do it before they pass laws to make us do it?
Where is the logic in that?
It's basically saying give up now, before they make you give up.
It is Always a Bad Idea to Lump All People into One Group.
There are a Multitude of Reasons why People Want e-Cigarettes Banned, Restricted or Regulated. And there are a Multitude of Reasons why People Do Not Want e-Cigarettes Banned, Restricted or Regulated.
And there are Many People who Feel that Some Regulations can be Good. And Others who feel they will be Terrible or Not Needed.
But Never say Something Can Not Be Fought. That is a Pathetic Approach. And Much of the Reason things are as Screwed Up here. As well as in India and the Rest of the World.
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