My First Wizard Labs DIY Mistake and Rant

[Bworms1980]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Marsha and I've been vaping for a little over 2 weeks now. I'm asthmatic, so getting off the analogs was a must for me and I'm glad I did. I absolutely love vaping and have only had 2 or 3 puffs on an analog since I started to vape. It was disgusting and I haven't gone back.

However, I'm naturally clumsy and that is fast causing me problems vaping when it comes to the hardware, but mostly the ejuice. I didn't have much to start with and what I did have was from a kind guardian angel that I met here on ECF. I also ordered a couple bottles of menthol juice from LiteCigUSA. I am so clumsy and paired with a bad short term memory, I spilled most of the juice.
I sat on a bottle and squeezed out almost all of the juice, I accidentally spilled some more trying to fill (cartos, atty's these things still confuse me) and I think I tripped over my dog and broke one of my tanks in the street (can't remember that one too well). So I was in desperate need of juice and on a fixed income, I was not going to be able to buy much. A wonderful member on ECF told me about Wizard Labs and how to mix the nic and flavor. The prices were great so I decided to try DIY. That same member was nice enough to let me try his Kona Cream ejuice and it was 100%VG. I felt congested a lot and read up on VG/PG. Nearly all of the information I read through said that VG is worst for congestion. I decided to try a more PG base.

This is where my mistake happens.

Instead of ordering small or even trying different VG/PG ratios, I was NOT at all thinking and ordered a 120ml bottle of 70PG/30VG and am regretting it badly for a few reasons.

1. Fixed income, so it will be a few weeks before I can make another WL order.
2. Have very little of my other juices left and they won't last a few weeks.
3. I absolutely cannot vape this mixture for another few weeks.

I would happily take the congestion of a high or 100% VG nic. I received the WL package yesterday and started vaping it around 7pm. I suffer from insomnia and haven't slept yet, so I've had hours to notice the change in my body. As I said, I was a bit congested when using the 100%VG but was fine otherwise. Now about 14 hours after vaping the 70PG/30VG mix, my entire chest feels raw. Like some scrubbed it with a brillo pad. I haven't vaped in a couple hours because its incredibly uncomfortably trying to inhale anything right now. Not feeling sick or anything and I know I mixed the liquids correctly and safely. However, the PG is kicking the crap out of me. My chest is just...I don't know if I can fully explain it. I have been scratching at my chest/shoulders because there is no way for me to scratch it from the inside and my chest is feeling itchy along with the rawness.

I don't know what I was thinking to order such a large amount of the nic, when I had never tried that ration before. So far I know that 50/50 to 100%VG does NOT have me feeling like this but left me congested. But it also did not leave me with the urge to put a cold compress in my chest cavity. So next order VG for the win congestion and all lol.

So I'm now stuck with at least 110ML of 70PG/30VG that I am hesitant to vape again. Very, very hesitant. Painful just to think about it. Very little other juice to use and an 8ML of Spearmint flavor that also makes me cringe to look at it. I was always a menthol smoker and decided to try out the menthol/mint flavorings. I bought 10ml of spearmint from LiteCigUSA , had no idea it would literally taste like Spearmint gum. Unfortunately, by the time it came, I had forgotten that I ordered it and ordered the same flavor from Wizard Labs. That WL bottle is still unopened. I don't even want to smell spearmint.

To complete my first brilliant DIYing experience:

I had saved soooo much from buying the WL that I decided to invest in some tanks because trying to work with and fill atty's/cartos made me stressed until I actually thought about running back to analogs. I also really needed to get another tank or two since i broke one. I really think it was the tripping over my dogs and face-planting in the street that broke it, but just can't remember.

So I spent the last of my vaping fund on a shipment of Vision Ego V2 Clearomizer and Vision Vivi Nova V2 Clearomizer and another tank that will be delivered here soon and barely enough liquid to fill each of them once.

And that completes my first DIY experience. Not my last though. The WL vaped great, just need to find a good VG/PG balance or stick to just VG I guess.

Sorry for the long post, just needed to get this experience off my very raw/sore chest.

 

[Cookster]

So sorry that you're having such a crappy time. I would suggest picking up a bottle of VG at CVS, Walgreen's or Walmart. Download breaktru's ejuicemeup calculator, and diluting your nic with the VG. The nic strength will go down a bit, though...

Hope this helps.

 

[Wuzznt Me]

What strength is your nic base and what flavors are you looking for? I don't live far from O town and have a bunch of stuff on hand including some pre-mixed that may help get you by until you can order again. Orlando also has a B&M store on Orange Ave.

 

[Bworms1980]

So sorry that you're having such a crappy time. I would suggest picking up a bottle of VG at CVS, Walgreen's or Walmart. Download breaktru's ejuicemeup calculator, and diluting your nic with the VG. The nic strength will go down a bit, though...

Hope this helps.

Cookster, had no idea I could pick up VG in those stores. I have all of those close to my home, I'll have to stop in on my errand runs and check it out. I'll look over the calculator as well, thank you for that. Just hope I understand it as math is my worse subject ever and try to avoid working with numbers lol.

What strength is your nic base and what flavors are you looking for? I don't live far from O town and have a bunch of stuff on hand including some pre-mixed that may help get you by until you can order again. Orlando also has a B&M store on Orange Ave.

Wuzznt Me, my nic base is 18mg to 36mg. I bought the WL nic base at 36mg to mix it down to about 24mg. I'm pretty new to vaping so the only flavor that I know I like so far is menthol and someone gave me a DIY Kona Cream that I absolutely loved. Beyond that, I'm still in sample mode trying to test out flavors. I'm allergic to banana, so I'm pretty much looking to try any flavor but that one.

I have read online that there is a store somewhere in Orlando and I'll definitely check it out and look into the VG offline, when I restock my vaping budget.

 

[Bworms1980]

Something I just noticed as well on this PG/VG ratio, I've been coughing slightly since the middle of the night and I haven't been coughing since I stopped the analogs 2 weeks ago. It's just the congestion with the 100%VG.

 

[Wuzznt Me]

The glycerin at WalMart isn't going to be labeled vg and the employees will probably give you a "deer in the headlights" look if you ask for it. It's just called glycerin and Humco is the brand name. It's pretty thick but can be thinned succesfully with distilled water or vodka. It varies where they keep it from by the bandaids to the skin care section. It's in a squat 6oz bottle. I've got a lot of flavors but menthol or kona aren't among them. Mostly fruit or tobacco flavors and a lot of 36mg vg I bought on sale at Good Prophets. Let me know if I can help. Just send a pm.

 

[wizard10000]

Hi, Bworms -

You might want to take a look at this thread -

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-vg-liquid-diy-carry-over-vinegar-thread.html

I was blessed with both COPD and adult onset asthma and my body doesn't tolerate PG real well either so I've been mixing straight VG (except for flavoring) for months. My mixes end up being between 80% and 95% VG and I haven't had any of the congestion issues you mention.

As mentioned earlier, cut your 36mg mix with straight VG (two parts 36mg 70/30 to one part 0mg VG) and you'll end up with a 24mg mix that's about 54% VG.

Hope this helps -

 

[Yves]

Just a thought, I get very very itchy if I don't drink enough water, the mix makes no difference to me it happens every time I get dehydrated, maybe if you drink a little more it may help your symptoms. Hope this all works out for you

 

[HighlanderNorth]

One thing to point out, you mentioned that you are a bit clumsy and forgetful. That combination might not bode well for mixing e-liquid, especially the concentrated nicotine part. I think it would be crucial to keep a note pad or just a piece of paper and pen/pencil on the table where you mix, and keep notes of what you add as you add it. You certainly dont want to forget that you already added nicotine, then add more again! You also dont want to confuse the volumes of each ingredient. So keep notes as you go along.

Also, maybe for you it would be best to buy your nicotine in lower concentrations instead of higher concentrations like 54-72-100mg/ml. You might want o get it in 36mg/ml. I have found that the prices work out to be almost the same, in other words, the price for a 100ml bottle of 72mg/ml nicotine will usually cost about double what a 100ml bottle of 36mg/ml nicotine will cost, so for the most part it works out to be about the same price usually, or pretty close, and it should be safer for you to use it. Just make sure you use a reliable mixture calculator and type in the proper nicotine concentration you are using.

Maybe get your nicotine from a supplier who sells it in 10-20% PG/80-90% VG.

I dont know what a WL is but can you use an atomizer or cartomizer that isnt so easily breakable? I would think that the clear tanks and clearomizers are going to be more easily breakable than an atomizer made of metal or thicker polymer. I use my Ego-t when I'm out and about, and I dropped it twice in 12 days, but its got a stainless steel atomizer that holds its 1.1ml tank, so it doesnt break when dropped. I can buy a cone shaped Ego atomizer with a mega-2ml tank too, which is also stainless steel protecting it. If I would have had a clearomizer on top of the Ego when I dropped it those 2 times, I bet it would've broken once....

 

[J MacLeod]

Marsha, if any juice is causing that kind of reaction or discomfort you definitely need to stop vaping it.

It's possible you're having a reaction to the PG, or a combination of variables.
PG itself causes mild irritation (i.e. "throat hit"), and dryness.
I've also seen some vapers have a bad reaction to one brand of VG and not another.
Either way, you shouldn't continue to vape anything causing those issues until you can isolate exactly what is causing the problem.

You said a 50/50 blend hasn't caused these symptoms, so you could start by diluting with plain VG down to that point as recommended above.
By adding 4ml of plain VG to 10ml of your 70/30 nic base you'll end up with 14ml total of nic base at about a 50/50 blend, and the nicotine content will only drop to 25.7mg/ml.
If you're still having reactions you may need to go all the way back to 100% VG.

I know a lot of us went through some form of trouble/irritation/cleansing/etc. ("new vaper syndrome") in the beginning after switching until our bodies adjusted and we discovered what worked.
You may find that over time, you can tolerate more PG at some point, or you may end up being one of the ~10% that has to avoid it.
The main thing is you made the big switch, and you found the right place for answers and support.

If you have to, go take Wuzznt up on his offer to get you through the holiday weekend.
Good on ya, Wuzznt.

 

[Jim Bob]

IMO (FWIW) the very symptoms you are having are common in folks quitting smoking remember vaping supplies nicotine but not the other many thousands of chemicals your body is used to having (and will withdraw from often with violent results --- AKA "quitters flu) that being said to "be sure" I suggest seeing your doctor in case there IS more to this. I sure hope you get to the bottom of this ASAP without going back to the nastiest of killer habits.

 

[bah-num]

Just in case you can't get that juice the way you need it to vape safely, esmokeronline has a shop on south orange trail. No DIY supplies but plenty of juices in 50/50 ratio, I think even some pure VG.

They're closed on Sunday, and not sure if they'll be open on Monday because of the Holiday... I'll call Steve tomorrow and see whether they're taking the holiday off.

good luck

 

[Tracey1]

Hi BWorm! Just checking in to see how you're doing. Hope you feeling better.

 

[Ralikar]

1) Gl... you should probably not be mixing/cutting nic juices if you have memory issues and are clumsy as was posted...

2) The vivi nova 2.5 (or vivi mini) and replaceable heads is about the cheapest/best delivery ststem if you are on a fixed income. The heads are $3 to replace--I washed mine and they lasted 2 weeks of massive daily use-- 0$ for 2 weeks. Once you get 2 vivis and the heads you like it will really be a cost effective delivery system. I'd ditch other delivery systems once you get the vivis to where you like them. Will save you a ton of cash over time. Soak the heads in alcohol for an hour and they will be like new.

3) Just get Wizard Labs (next time) to make you a 90VG/10PG or 100 VG base at 24mg or 18 or 36 which they will do--still cheap and no cutting or splitting. Just dump in the flavors.

 

[niczgreat]

Hi Marsha, I'm glad that you enjoyed the Organic Kona Cream that I whipped up for you. It was 100% VG. including the flavoring which was natural and PG free.

From reading your description, you have to switch to 100% VG not a tad of PG.
Contact Wizard Labs and tell them your dilemma, they might just allow you to trade it in.

Sure they'd have to dump the return in the trash but what they'll make from you over the years will far cover it.

Please don't try diluting it, not with such severe symptoms. Return it or trash it but don't vape it.

 

[ArdentHope]

Hi Marsha, I'm glad that you enjoyed the Organic Kona Cream that I whipped up for you. It was 100% VG. including the flavoring which was natural and PG free.

From reading your description, you have to switch to 100% VG not a tad of PG.
Contact Wizard Labs and tell them your dilemma, they might just allow you to trade it in.

Sure they'd have to dump the return in the trash but what they'll make from you over the years will far cover it.

Please don't try diluting it, not with such severe symptoms. Return it or trash it but don't vape it.

Or you could recoup some of your $$ by selling it in the classies here on ECF........

 

[Bworms1980]

Hi, Bworms -

You might want to take a look at this thread -

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-vg-liquid-diy-carry-over-vinegar-thread.html

I was blessed with both COPD and adult onset asthma and my body doesn't tolerate PG real well either so I've been mixing straight VG (except for flavoring) for months. My mixes end up being between 80% and 95% VG and I haven't had any of the congestion issues you mention.

As mentioned earlier, cut your 36mg mix with straight VG (two parts 36mg 70/30 to one part 0mg VG) and you'll end up with a 24mg mix that's about 54% VG.

Hope this helps -

Hi Wizard, thank you for the information. High PG ratios are definitely not for me. I'll stick with 50% PG or less from now on.

Just a thought, I get very very itchy if I don't drink enough water, the mix makes no difference to me it happens every time I get dehydrated, maybe if you drink a little more it may help your symptoms. Hope this all works out for you

I had read that higher PG tends to give others dry mouth so I have tried to keep hydrated but it didn't help and I was still congested. I didn't have any of these problems with 50VG/50PG, only higher PG levels.

One thing to point out, you mentioned that you are a bit clumsy and forgetful. That combination might not bode well for mixing e-liquid, especially the concentrated nicotine part. I think it would be crucial to keep a note pad or just a piece of paper and pen/pencil on the table where you mix, and keep notes of what you add as you add it. You certainly dont want to forget that you already added nicotine, then add more again! You also dont want to confuse the volumes of each ingredient. So keep notes as you go along.

Also, maybe for you it would be best to buy your nicotine in lower concentrations instead of higher concentrations like 54-72-100mg/ml. You might want o get it in 36mg/ml. I have found that the prices work out to be almost the same, in other words, the price for a 100ml bottle of 72mg/ml nicotine will usually cost about double what a 100ml bottle of 36mg/ml nicotine will cost, so for the most part it works out to be about the same price usually, or pretty close, and it should be safer for you to use it. Just make sure you use a reliable mixture calculator and type in the proper nicotine concentration you are using.

Maybe get your nicotine from a supplier who sells it in 10-20% PG/80-90% VG.

I dont know what a WL is but can you use an atomizer or cartomizer that isnt so easily breakable? I would think that the clear tanks and clearomizers are going to be more easily breakable than an atomizer made of metal or thicker polymer. I use my Ego-t when I'm out and about, and I dropped it twice in 12 days, but its got a stainless steel atomizer that holds its 1.1ml tank, so it doesnt break when dropped. I can buy a cone shaped Ego atomizer with a mega-2ml tank too, which is also stainless steel protecting it. If I would have had a clearomizer on top of the Ego when I dropped it those 2 times, I bet it would've broken once....

I've definitely been keeping notes because I tend to forget what I'm doing even if its only been a couple seconds and have to struggle to remember. I noticed that some people make their own nicotine. That is definitely not for me. Along with the memory issues and clumsiness, when I factor in my math skills (or lack thereof), I'm pretty sure I'll accidentally poison myself.

So I'll stick to ready to use e-juice and mixing my own flavors. I'm still trying to figure out cartomizers and atomizers. I find them very confusing right now. As soon as I first vaped, that was it for me and I didn't even crave a cigarette. However, I put down the tank to try to figure out carto and atty's but after 15 minutes I badly wanted a cigarette lol. I was just stressed trying to deal with those, so I'm still using tanks for now. I mean I have this one thing with a piece of steel wool or something in it and I can't figure out if I'm supposed to put juice in it or what. I'm figuring out the ones with cotton inside, but everything is confusing me. I have one that is tiny and appears to be a mouth tip, but it has cotton and is prefilled with juice and I don't know what to put it on.

Marsha, if any juice is causing that kind of reaction or discomfort you definitely need to stop vaping it.

It's possible you're having a reaction to the PG, or a combination of variables.
PG itself causes mild irritation (i.e. "throat hit"), and dryness.
I've also seen some vapers have a bad reaction to one brand of VG and not another.
Either way, you shouldn't continue to vape anything causing those issues until you can isolate exactly what is causing the problem.

You said a 50/50 blend hasn't caused these symptoms, so you could start by diluting with plain VG down to that point as recommended above.
By adding 4ml of plain VG to 10ml of your 70/30 nic base you'll end up with 14ml total of nic base at about a 50/50 blend, and the nicotine content will only drop to 25.7mg/ml.
If you're still having reactions you may need to go all the way back to 100% VG.

I know a lot of us went through some form of trouble/irritation/cleansing/etc. ("new vaper syndrome") in the beginning after switching until our bodies adjusted and we discovered what worked.
You may find that over time, you can tolerate more PG at some point, or you may end up being one of the ~10% that has to avoid it.
The main thing is you made the big switch, and you found the right place for answers and support.

If you have to, go take Wuzznt up on his offer to get you through the holiday weekend.
Good on ya, Wuzznt.

I stopped vaping that mixture after I first noticed its effects on me. I just haven't been able to go back to it. It left me feeling awful, unlike the VG. I had taken up Wuzznt on his offer but I hope he hasn't mailed it out yet. I have been gone for the last 3 days over the holiday weekend and when I came back home not to long ago, I found a package. It was from Wizard Labs. I hadn't contacted them because I'm the one who made the mistake, however they sent me out a package with VG and some extras. Not sure how they knew that I messed up my order.

 

[IndyJones]

you probably forgot that you told them

 

[LucentShadow]

...
I stopped vaping that mixture after I first noticed its effects on me. I just haven't been able to go back to it. It left me feeling awful, unlike the VG. I had taken up Wuzznt on his offer but I hope he hasn't mailed it out yet. I have been gone for the last 3 days over the holiday weekend and when I came back home not to long ago, I found a package. It was from Wizard Labs. I hadn't contacted them because I'm the one who made the mistake, however they sent me out a package with VG and some extras. Not sure how they knew that I messed up my order.

That's awesome. If you hadn't noticed, you're responding to Wizard Labs in your post there.

I'm curious about whether you used any flavoring with that base, and if so, was it a new one? I'm sensitive to PG, but what you described sounds more similar to how alcohol-based flavorings treat me if I use more than 1% or so. I don't think that there are many flavorings with alcohol in their flavoring line, but in any case, you may want to look at the flavoring as well, if it's an unknown variable.

I hope that you get it figured out. It took me awhile to figure out what worked for me, and there are plenty of others here who have specific needs in juice makeup. Be sure to post here if you need any help figuring things out.

 

[Bworms1980]

IMO (FWIW) the very symptoms you are having are common in folks quitting smoking remember vaping supplies nicotine but not the other many thousands of chemicals your body is used to having (and will withdraw from often with violent results --- AKA "quitters flu) that being said to "be sure" I suggest seeing your doctor in case there IS more to this. I sure hope you get to the bottom of this ASAP without going back to the nastiest of killer habits.

Hi Jim Bob, the symptoms all went away since I stopped using the PG mixed I bought. I've been vaping almost 3 weeks and my lungs and breathing are feeling great right now. After every cigarette I would need my asthma pump. Now, I feel great all day. I still feel awful when I wake up in the morning. Once I hit my asthma pump and get something to drink, I feel great for the rest of the day.

Just in case you can't get that juice the way you need it to vape safely, esmokeronline has a shop on south orange trail. No DIY supplies but plenty of juices in 50/50 ratio, I think even some pure VG.

They're closed on Sunday, and not sure if they'll be open on Monday because of the Holiday... I'll call Steve tomorrow and see whether they're taking the holiday off.

good luck

An ECF friend told me about this store. I definitely want to check it out when I get the chance and funds to do so. Would be nice to be able to visit that store if I need something immediately.

1) Gl... you should probably not be mixing/cutting nic juices if you have memory issues and are clumsy as was posted...

2) The vivi nova 2.5 (or vivi mini) and replaceable heads is about the cheapest/best delivery ststem if you are on a fixed income. The heads are $3 to replace--I washed mine and they lasted 2 weeks of massive daily use-- 0$ for 2 weeks. Once you get 2 vivis and the heads you like it will really be a cost effective delivery system. I'd ditch other delivery systems once you get the vivis to where you like them. Will save you a ton of cash over time. Soak the heads in alcohol for an hour and they will be like new.

3) Just get Wizard Labs (next time) to make you a 90VG/10PG or 100 VG base at 24mg or 18 or 36 which they will do--still cheap and no cutting or splitting. Just dump in the flavors.

1) Don't forget the bad math skills. I'm trying to write things down to keep me on track and use the calculator to help me.

2) The package with my Nova and other tanks came, but haven't used them yet since I was low on juice. How will I know when its time to change the heads?

3) The 50/50 VG/PG did not affect me badly like the higher PG. Not sure if I should stick to 50 to 90% VG for now or 100% VG only. I definitely don't want to mix anything often.

Hi BWorm! Just checking in to see how you're doing. Hope you feeling better.

Ditto.
How are you getting along, Marsha?

Hi Tracy, MacLeod, I'm doing great. I've been a lot better since I stopped using the high PG mix.

Hi Marsha, I'm glad that you enjoyed the Organic Kona Cream that I whipped up for you. It was 100% VG. including the flavoring which was natural and PG free.

From reading your description, you have to switch to 100% VG not a tad of PG.
Contact Wizard Labs and tell them your dilemma, they might just allow you to trade it in.

Sure they'd have to dump the return in the trash but what they'll make from you over the years will far cover it.

Please don't try diluting it, not with such severe symptoms. Return it or trash it but don't vape it.

When I came back home today, I found a package from Wizard Labs. They had sent me a 100%VG and some PG and flavor. You think my symptoms mean that I'm probably one of the few vapers who are allergic to PG?

Thank you again for the Kona Cream. It was a lung saver for sure. After almost 3 weeks, I'm finally down to the last few ml. Would have lasted longer had I not spilled most of my juices. The only flavor so far that stands out to me. I don't dislike the few that I've tried but the Kona Cream definitely stands out so far. I have a question on juices.

Do any mixtures taste like banana? I'm allergic to banana, the smell makes me nauseous. I'll heave if I try to eat it. I was vaping the Kona Cream, but I don't have a lot of juice left so I decided to top it off with some watermelon flavor I have. Worst mistake, it tastes like banana to me, so had to throw it out. Was very nauseous for a while. I'm now afraid to mix two or more flavors for fear that it will taste like banana again.