My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...

[Smann245]

In it's simplistic form, longer coils take much longer to heat up then shorter coils- it's a matter of science

Only with voltage that is fixed. You still don't get it?

 

[edyle]

Well put, good read. I think even grimmgreen in a recent YouTube video was talking about how sub ohm on a regulated mood pointless because you can crank up your wattage and achieve quite the cloud.
Hell my dual coil builds are 1.5 ohms with 30g... That's 15 wraps for each, good surface area right there, plenty of vapor at only 13 watts.

You are vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire.

 

[Smann245]

Brainfart.

 

[edyle]

I do agree with the op. However, I like to build with 28ga wire and that means that my dual coil builds in my RTAs tend to end up as 0.8-0.9 ohms - about the same as my builds for mechs. I'd love to go over 1 ohm on regulated mods but I just don't like 30ga wire, and I hate 32ga.

A 0.8 ohm dual coil 28 gauge running at 4 volts is 20 watts.
That's 2 1.6 ohm coils.
Total coil ohms is 3.2 ohms.

You can build a 3.2 ohm coil 28 gauge and run it on a high powered mod. The voltage required would be 8 volts.

 

[autobiogphnation]

You are vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire.

If it was in series, then yes it would be 6 ohms. And that would just be stupid.
But it's parallel, which is pretty much the standard for a dual coil.

 

[edyle]

Been playing around with cloud chasing a bit lately. I'm running a Mutation X RDA with dual coils at around 70 watts with a fresh battery right now on a mechanical mod. From my experience so far, I'm pretty sure that RDA could handle 120 watts without breaking a sweat

Sounds like something thicker than 28 gauge; what's that 26 gauge?

 

[edyle]

As someone who is pretty new to the vaping scene (about four months) and who has just in the past month really begun to research and understand all the stuff that's out there now, I really appreciate this post. One of the main things I love about vaping is the endless possibilities that are available to modify and customize your own personal "experience." Unfortunately, having endless possibilities can be bad thing. I was an engineering major in my early college years, but switched my major to actuarial science (that's insurance based probability and statistics) because I realized I was more into the math stuff than I was science. I mention this because when I first started reading up on all the sub-ohm/advanced mod stuff,my math brain was instantly intrigued by it and I thought "wow I gotta get into this! This is the proper way to vape!". The more I thought about it the more I realized that maybe it wasn't as superior as I originally thought. Like I said I have more of a math brain so I thought back to the basic equation we've all seen on those lovely colored voltage charts: wattage equals voltage squared divided by resistance. All this equation really says to me is that for any resistance there is a wattage and voltage that is most efficient in a given device. Like you (and I think most people who vape), I am after the best flavor first and foremost. So if there is an efficient voltage/wattage range for any given resistance level, is having a really low ohm setting and cranked up wattage necessarily better? My answer would be no, like most things, it comes down to preference.
That being said, people like the guy you talked to really get on my nerves and in my opinion, are bad representatives of the vaping community. Its people like that that would advise a beginner/novice vaper that they have to get a powerful mechanical mod/sub-ohm device and everything else is crap, and that to me could be dangerous. As we all know, a lot of this stuff is trial and error and learning through experience, and I don't what a beginner to try and vape on something that is meant for a veteran because of advice taken from an idiot and god forbid, something bad happens as a result. Something like this is exactly what all those anti-vaping people would need to verify a ban on vaping.

The missing piece there in the equation is the wire thickness.
It takes more power to get the thick wire hot enough for the same ohms.

 

[edyle]

Quote Originally Posted by edyle View Post
You are vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire.

I think he meant 1.5 total. So THREE OHMS.

...

my dual coil builds are 1.5 ohms with 30g...

1.5 ohms dual coil. That means 2 coils, each of 3 ohms.

That means he is vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire at the same time.

 

[edyle]

If it was in series, then yes it would be 6 ohms. And that would just be stupid.
But it's parallel, which is pretty much the standard for a dual coil.

Yes, if it were in series it would be 6 ohms;

It's the same wire used in 3 2 ohm single coils, so it's like vaping 3 standard 2 ohm coils at the same time.

 

[autobiogphnation]

Yes, if it were in series it would be 6 ohms;

It's the same wire used in 3 2 ohm single coils, so it's like vaping 3 standard 2 ohm coils at the same time.

That's great, but let's just leave it at it's a 1.5 ohm disk coil build. That's all that matters in the end, resistance total.

 

[Smann245]

edyle, what is your point?

 

[edyle]

edyle, what is your point?

hm?
The point was he is vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire

It's relevant to this discussion particularly because for example when someone is subohming on quad coils, if you check up on all the coil resistance in there -

say a 0.2 ohm quad coil:
that's actually 4 0.8 ohm coils;
that's a total of 3.2 ohms of coil.

So if you can vape 3.2 ohms of coil at 4 volts, you can vape a 3.2 ohm coil of the same gauge at 16 volts and should get the same vape - except for the question of wicking as the OP indicated.

 

[Soignee]

OP,
Thanks for a very succinct and well written explanation! It opened my eyes about how to use my high wattage unit. I've been building in a very narrow range, time to expand a bit.

 

[Smann245]

hm?
The point was he is vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire

say a 0.2 ohm quad coil:
that's actually 4 0.8 ohm coils;
that's a total of 3.2 ohms of coil.

The total ohms you are giving are only correct if the coils are in series. They are not. I still don't know what point you're trying to make.

 

[edyle]

The total ohms you are giving are only correct if the coils are in series. They are not. I still don't know what point you're trying to make.

edyle commented to autobiogphnation:

Quote Originally Posted by autobiogphnation View Post
Well put, good read. I think even grimmgreen in a recent YouTube video was talking about how sub ohm on a regulated mood pointless because you can crank up your wattage and achieve quite the cloud.
Hell my dual coil builds are 1.5 ohms with 30g... That's 15 wraps for each, good surface area right there, plenty of vapor at only 13 watts.

You are vaping on a total of SIX OHMS of coil wire.

It was just a simple observation.

It's a 1.5 ohm coil. I merely observed that it consists of a total of SIX OHMS of resistance wire.
Somehow my english is bad and people seem to think I am claiming that a 1.5 ohm coil is a 6 ohm coil.

 

[Smann245]

Yeah, low ohms but a whole lot of wire. Ok.

 

[rhelton]

I didnt read every post but what I read from page one I agree. High ohm coils being heated by volts above 4.2, or anywhere above 5 is in my range is really great. Less work, more payout, thicker, denser, tastier vaper.

 

[KenD]

A 0.8 ohm dual coil 28 gauge running at 4 volts is 20 watts.
That's 2 1.6 ohm coils.
Total coil ohms is 3.2 ohms.

You can build a 3.2 ohm coil 28 gauge and run it on a high powered mod. The voltage required would be 8 volts.

Yes, I've been thinking of doing that, as two coils in series. I've simple been too lazy to try it out (and to figure out how to do that on my Fogger v4).

 

[rusirius]

Wondering about the physics of wicking, aside from the material...

Does heat of the coil attract juice toward it? I think I'm imagining this... lol.

Wicking is basically just a fancy term for capillary action. Basically the "Strands" in the wick material when bunched together form small "tubes". A combination of cohesion and adhesion work to "draw" the liquid through these small tubes.

Now in terms of your question, directly? No... Heat doesn't play a direct part in this wicking process. However, it very much does so in an indirect manner. When vaporization occurs the portion of the wick where the most heat is is going to "dry out" faster. That process will leave a low pressure area in these small tubes, which in turn will aid by "sucking up" more juice through those tubes. Kinda like a straw.

 

[twall]

I was just going to ask about this. Phenomenal post.

I'm new to all this, only a little over a month. My equipment isn't anything high perf sexy. Just an MVP2 and a 134. I did just get into building. Just like you said, I had been fed the mantra of lower, lower, lower - so my first build, I wanted as low as my mod would allow me to. It was a terrible vape. I was very sad, just about to give up and go back to my tanks. Forever.

Then, I thought....."Wait a minute. What runs best on my devices?". 2.0 and above coils. My protank, nautilus mini, and my best clearos. All 2.0+, and they run awesome.

So, I tore down my Kayfun and wrapped up a nice 2.3 ohm single coil, and stuffed a nice cotton wick in it. 32ga wire. After letting it wick up and checking the resistance AGAIN, I lit it up on my MVP. It fired up almost immediately. The coil was nice and long. Very nice flavor. I lung hit it. OMG, the CLOUD! Nice and thick and yummy. I love my Kayfun now!

Thank you again for clearing this up for me. I like these yummy clouds. Just want to make bigger 'uns. You indeed validated what I had discovered. Thought it might be a fluke. For a regulated device, lower ohms does NOT per se mean a higher performance atty. Opposite, sometimes as I have found.

This oughta be a sticky somewhere.