I've never heard of any, but...
The 33 hertz pulse coming out of many regulated mods is just over half way to US AC frequency
My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...
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I've never heard of any, but...
The 33 hertz pulse coming out of many regulated mods is just over half way to US AC frequency
Yeah, I was thinking about something along the lines of 20kHz or so for the PWM... but as soon as I clicked submit I realized I was having a brain fart. Can't reliably pwm the ac. Lol. I'd still have to rectify it and at that point I'd be just making a dc voltage doubler, I'll have to do some calculations to see if I could do a doubler with the current capabilities small enough to try to cram in a box along with everything else.I've never heard of any, but...
The 33 hertz pulse coming out of many regulated mods is just over half way to US AC frequency
Perfectly stated. Although some prefer hotter vapes and some prefer cooler vapes. Saying one is better than the other or one misunderstands the other or one misunderstands in general is just forum baiting. The OP's thread is a new mouse trap for an old tired argument.
I Remember the three of us had this conversation about a year ago.
At 6 volts The current draw is / 2 amps at 3 ohms / 3 amps at 2 ohms.
If that's not true then why did the 3 ohm set up last almost 50% longer at same power on the same type of battery. I've done it a lot times and that's what I've found on the zmax. So that would lead one to believe that. But the zmax caps around 2.6amps with a single battery. So I was only pulling 2.6 amps and stressing the efficiency probably. Also leading to the 3ohm being so much better on that particular set-up.
What type of mods do you have and use regularly ryedan?
I do run maximum power setting on the zmax v3. What I'm saying is real world, is if the battery gets low enough to produce a noticable drop in power output on a regulated mod, it's time to be changed. Stacked 18350 batteries at 8v lasts 3 times longer before noticable loss than 1 18650.
Higher voltage is a great benefit to me.
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You need to compare wattage to wattage.
Generally this comes down to coil and/or regulator performance differences at the different voltages. A larger coil simply eats more power, for example.
It's a can of worms I shouldn't have opened. Too many variables. I actually wasn't going to post that and then I hit post by accident. Got caught in the trap so to speak. Overall I just do what works for me.
I'm talking about a single device, a zmax v3. So I will have a certain result that could be different on a different device. I used it with a single battery on the 3 & 2 ohm tests.. and the stacked batteries, they just work great. Higher voltage is the subject of the thread and it's also what I use. The zmax chip is some what obsolete and all the previous struggles we had with vv/vw devices are gone with the new 100w chips.
I'm talking about a single device, a zmax v3. So I will have a certain result that could be different on a different device. I used it with a single battery on the 3 & 2 ohm tests.. and the stacked batteries, they just work great. Higher voltage is the subject of the thread and it's also what I use. The zmax chip is some what obsolete and all the previous struggles we had with vv/vw devices are gone with the new 100w chips.
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In general it's wattage in=wattage out of any regulator, less the losses of the regulator itself.
Thank you. Anyone who actually understands ohms law would know that you don't need a .2 coil on a regulated mod. But apparently a whole lot of vapers don't understand it. Wattage (along with surface area etc.) is what you are looking for, not resistance. You don't need super sub ohms when you got all that voltage to play with.
Hey buddy there are AC mods. I think the pipeline pro by dicodes is AC. take a look at pbusardo's video.
Wattage/Voltage Regulation does not rely at all on resistance. What it does is that according to Watts and CURRENT BATTERY VOLTAGE it calculates the current to be drawn. Resistance is not in the formula at all. So if you are running at 80 watts and the CURRENT BATTERY VOLTAGE is 4 Volts this will consume around 22 amps assuming 90% efficiency of the converter. When the battery becomes 3.2 Volts, this will draw 27.5 amps. So as you can see resistance has no role in regulated devices.
Now using 2 batteries instead of 1 as a source will always, always, ALWAYS draw less current from the batteries, FOR THE SAME WATTAGE, because you have 8 Volts source to achieve the 80 watts you need only 11 amps from batteries. They will always, always, ALWAYS last longer.
The ONLY way to save on battery life with the same number of batteries is to reduce wattage, and this is what I was doing with the HV micro coils. The idea is that I was able to reduce wattage and get same performance because I was using higher gauge wires which don't require as high power as low gauge wires. So I was running my DNA always at 9.5V in order to be able to stick in there the highest resistance coil i can do with really thin wires. This way I get the coverage of fat wires but since I am using high gauge wires I can reduce the watts. I remember i was getting the same performance from a 20 wraps 34 guage wire at 7.5 watts as a 28 gauge wire 10 wraps at 16 watts.
Yes, I think I remember that too Jeremy
. But I think the conversation was about running say 10 watts with a 2 ohm atty versus 10 watts with a 3 ohm atty. At least that's how I remember it. Your example above is obviously correct, the higher wattage will use the battery that much faster. It's been a long time since I've played around with regulated mods but I did that comparison with a Lava Tube and got almost the same vape time. Of course I dialed in volts, so it was 4.5 volts with the 2 ohm carto and 5.5 volts with the 3 ohm carto. I got a few percent longer run time at 5.5 volts which I attribute to better efficiency at the higher voltage.BTW, your amp draw numbers are for the regulated device output not for the battery drain.
At 6V out with a 3 ohm atty at 90% efficiency the atty sees 6V, 2A and 12 watts. The battery sees at 4.2V, 3.17A and 13.3 watts. At 3.3V, 4A and 13.3 watts.
At 6V out with a 2 ohm atty at 90% efficiency the atty sees 6V, 3A and 18 watts. The battery sees at 4.2V, 4.76A and 20 watts. At 3.3V, 6.1A and 20 watts.
I got that from the Steam Engine calculator.
In any case, whatever works is good. Vape on my friend
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I'm sorry to say, but the above statement perfectly illustrates that you just don't get it.
I don't know if it's that you just aren't taking the time to absorb the information here or rather you've got so hooked up in the kool-aid that you just refuse to accept it regardless of how well it's explained. Please understand that this is not a personal attack on you, it's just that this is the exact misconception that I'm trying to help resolve with the OP. The only difference is instead of saying, "well this is the only way to do it" you're simply saying "well, if that's what you like fine". That's all well and good, but you're also completely missing the information presented here.
Your statement above says it all. It makes it very clear that you are associating "low sub-ohm builds" with "hotter vapes" and high-ohm high-voltage vapes with cooler vapes. This is EXACTLY what some others do except they extrapolate even further (which I'm guessing you probably have as well, just not stated so) that a "hotter" vape also produces more flavor, more clouds, etc...
Let me try to be as clear as I possibly can. The "warmth" of the vape has absolutely NOTHING to do with the resistance of the coil. NOTHING.... The warmth of the vape is a function of the power (wattage) combined with airflow, length of drip tip, ambient air temperature, and a host of other factors. None of which are coil resistance.
In fact, to take this even a step further, the surface of the coil will essentially be the same once "up to temp" regardless of how much power you apply, what kind of wire you use, what the resistance is, etc. Assuming of course your wicking can keep it saturated. To illustrate this, again I go back to a pot of water... If I take two identical pots of water and place one on a small 6" stove burner that's 400 degrees and take the other and place on a a glass furnace at 1500 degrees... Which water will be hotter? NEITHER.... They are both going to be (given the same atmospheric pressure) the EXACT same temperature.. At sealevel 212 degrees.... It doesn't matter how much heat I apply to the water.... it's NEVER going to get hotter.... The difference is going to lie ONLY in how fast it boils... How much water is converted into vapor.
Which all comes back to the same concept... The one I demonstrated in my first post. How much juice is vaporized is all about how much energy is released which then converts that juice into vapor. But the simple fact remains that by trying to release more energy by keeping the same voltage and lowering resistance only works so much. There comes a point where you run into some road blocks. Limitations on the amount of current a battery can safely supply, the amount of time the coil lags and takes to heat up as well as the amount of time it takes to cool back down, the amount of juice that can be wicked into a smaller surface area, etc... You can try to eliminate the wicking problem by gaining more surface area, using lower gauge wire, but then you are increasing your lag times, shortening your battery life, etc.
On the other hand, when going the opposite way, by increasing voltage the doors open up. You can spread the power out over lots of surface area to eliminate the wicking problem while still maintaining a small heat capacity eliminating the lag issues.
But the "warmth" of the vape has nothing to do with the discussion currently taking place.
Exactly... I can't speak to any tests or results you've found with your (JeremyR) own device. If you are finding that drastic of a performance increase (if I'm understanding what you're stating correctly) then perhaps the regulator happens to be super efficient with an 8.4v input versus a 4.2v input. I don't know...
But, the above statement is exactly right... Though I think it may get confusing for some vapers because of what "wattage" denotes to them. Remember wattage is "power". What's being stated above is "power in = power out". The simple fact is, as you increase how much power you put out you MUST increase the power you put in... If not, you would have perpetual motion.
Voltage and Current can be thought of as "interchangeable". I'll use the water hose analogy. If I place my finger over the end of a water hose I can increase pressure (voltage), but at the expense of flow (current). Vice versa applies when I remove my finger.
Excluding any losses in the regulator (R) it looks like this...
4.2v 10a --> R --> 8.4v 5a
When I use the regulator to double the voltage, I'm also going to double the amount of current I draw from the source... So if I run a 5A load on 8.4v then I'm going to draw 10A off my 4.2v battery... E x I = P.... 4.2v x 10A = 42W and 8.4v x 5A = 42W If I'm producing 42W of power on the output I MUST be drawing 42W from the source....
So let's think about that for a minute.... Let's say we had a 1000mAh 4.2v battery.... and we wanted to run a 42W load... So we run a .42ohm coil... This as pointed out above pulls 10A at 42 watts...
4.2v @ 10A on our 1000mAh (1Ah) = 6 minutes of continuous run time (it's not that simple as voltage won't stay constant from just a battery source, etc, but for the sake of our demonstration let's assume it does).
Now what if used a 100% efficient (so we don't have to calculator loss) regulator to bump the voltage up to 8.4v but still wanted to generate 42W.... Now we need a 1.68ohm coil and we are only drawing 5A...
But remember in order to generate that voltage from a 4.2v source we have to TRADE current for voltage... ExI=P So we STILL draw 10A off our 4.2 volt battery... which means we STILL only get 6 minutes of continuous run time....
Now suppose.... instead of using a regulator we stacked batteries.... two 4.2v batteries stacked will give us the same 8.4v which means we can only draw 5A from them... WONDERFUL... So we calculate it...
8.4v @ 5A on a 1000mAh source (capacity isn't doubled by putting batteries in series, only voltage is so it's still only a 1000mAh battery source). So yes, we now get 12 minutes of run time! We've doubled our run time using the SAME power output!!!
But wait... Don't buy the party decorations just yet.... Because we've just went from 1 1000mAh battery to TWO 1000mAh batteries... So even though we haven't doubled the capacity when they are in series (i.e. a 10A load will still draw 1000mAh in 6 minutes) all we did was halve the current and add an extra battery...
To illustrate that... Let's make this fair.... So NOW we take those same two batteries and put them in parallel instead.... So we STILL get 4.2v output but we now have 2000mAh capacity instead of 1000mAh...
4.2v @ 10A on 2000mAh = 12 minutes of runtime... The exact same figure we had when running 8.4v @ 5A....
Does that hopefully help make things more clear?
This law is also called Kirchhoff's first law, Kirchhoff's point rule, or Kirchhoff's junction rule (or nodal rule).
The principle of conservation of electric charge implies that:
At any node (junction) in an electrical circuit, the sum of currents flowing into that node is equal to the sum of currents flowing out of that node
Like gravity, it's the law
This law is also called Kirchhoff's first law, Kirchhoff's point rule, or Kirchhoff's junction rule (or nodal rule).
The principle of conservation of electric charge implies that:
At any node (junction) in an electrical circuit, the sum of currents flowing into that node is equal to the sum of currents flowing out of that node
Like gravity, it's the law
Who needs laws??? WARNING: Foul language in image at THIS LINK you must fix.
it's amazing that sometimes you could bang your head on the wall trying to explain something like this and someone else just still don't get it. to me the problem is that you fully understand the theory so in your mind you see a whole clear picture. someone else really has little understanding so they don't see a whole clear picture they only see a piece here and a piece there while the rest of the picture is just darkness... without seeing the whole picture it's hard to fully understand how everything relates to everything else.
there's a saying that sums this up nicely, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". sometimes to really have someone fully understand you'd have to start at the beginning, teaching the basic foundations of electrical theory and then building on that to provide a clear picture... you see that whole clear picture in your head so the bits and pieces you "give" to others make sense to you and illustrate what you are trying to show but to someone in darkness the pieces here and there aren't enough for them to fully understand the whole picture. they fill in the dark areas with pre conceived notions and assumptions and instead of seeing the whole picture they now see there own distorted view.
some people just aren't going to fully get it and fully see the whole picture because lets face it, this is only an ecig deal for them and they may not have much else further need for this knowledge so they will not seek it as agressively or as completely as you or me... you and me have spent years learning electrical theory for more than just ecigs, these things are a part of our career and our interests beyond just ecigs but that is not the case for many others here
there's a saying that sums this up nicely, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". sometimes to really have someone fully understand you'd have to start at the beginning, teaching the basic foundations of electrical theory and then building on that to provide a clear picture... you see that whole clear picture in your head so the bits and pieces you "give" to others make sense to you and illustrate what you are trying to show but to someone in darkness the pieces here and there aren't enough for them to fully understand the whole picture. they fill in the dark areas with pre conceived notions and assumptions and instead of seeing the whole picture they now see there own distorted view.
some people just aren't going to fully get it and fully see the whole picture because lets face it, this is only an ecig deal for them and they may not have much else further need for this knowledge so they will not seek it as agressively or as completely as you or me... you and me have spent years learning electrical theory for more than just ecigs, these things are a part of our career and our interests beyond just ecigs but that is not the case for many others here
this seems to make seance.
however you are talking about steam not vapor.
i don't care to recall how many blisters i have gotten removing the lid
from the roaster.
correct me if i a wrong but isn't vapor a state some where between ambient temp. and steam
depending on how much moisture is present?
as i understand it vapor is increased at a quasi-linear rate as opposed the heat applied.
plotted on a graph it looks like s slightly bowed line at a ninety five degree angle.
heat applied and amount of vapor being produced the vertical and horizontal axis.
at a certain point you no longer have vapor you have steam at 212 degrees which
would leave a lot of vapors in the hurt box.
regards
mike
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