My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...

[Ryedan]

I get what you're saying... I really do... and I'm not saying I'd rather have a burnt hit... What I'm saying is, I'd rather have my device apply the power I TELL it to apply and if I have a problem fix it...

The way I understand how the DNA40 is intended to work is that you control your vape with the power settings and your atty build. You also set a maximum coil temperature which will stop the temperature rise if the coil becomes dry. As long as the coil is wet the temperature will not rise much no matter how much power you put into it.

I don't know if the vape can actually be controlled well using temperature. If I remember correctly from the video it has a temperature accuracy of +-10 deg F. I've never used one, but it seems to me that could well be way too much variability to be able to control the power level and give a consistent vape. I guess time will tell

 

[tj99959]

Well I won't be getting a DNA40 for the same reason I won't be getting a P3. I already have what I need to get what I want

If I wasn't getting what I want THEN I would be looking for something that could.

Simple question; why would I want to vape at 40 watts when I can get what I want at 7-9 watts? Doesn't matter to me what others want to vape, it just matters what floats my boat.

 

[Ryedan]

I don't think that "heat protection" feature is anything like Evolv's temperature protection.

It's not, I think they just pulse the coil with no calculations of resistivity or temp for that matter.

I think you guys are right

"**Heat Protection prevents overheating of the heating coil, preserving the flavor of the liquids, even at higher watt settings! This is an exclusive feature to the PIPELINE PRO. The longer you hold down the button of the battery carrier, the hotter the heating coil gets.
Our Heat Protection function allows you to personalise the timing of your vape and can help protect the heating coil by preventing a steady rise in coil temperature.
In the extended functions menu there are 10 different heat protection settings available, of course, you can also choose to disable this feature."

Looking at the details if this were a closed loop system they would say it. Sounds like they are simply anticipating the drying out of the wick over time.

 

[Ryedan]

Well I won't be getting a DNA40 for the same reason I won't be getting a P3. I already have what I need to get what I want

If I wasn't getting what I want THEN I would be looking for something that could.

Simple question; why would I want to vape at 40 watts when I can get what I want at 7-9 watts? Doesn't matter to me what others want to vape, it just matters what floats my boat.

I hear ya tj. Hey, no one said anyone should vape different than they like to vape .

OTOH, now that the ProVari has VW and most of those old VV vs VW threads are a thing of the past we do need something new to replace them with on slow days around here. Time will tell, but I think we just found it.

Great timing

 

[Trexwyo]

Many of the local shops have tried to talk me into a mechanical saying I'll get a better quality of vapor production. I just laugh and say why? Their response is always because I can go to a higher wattage and go sub ohm? My answer is always, You go sub ohm on your mechanical only because your voltage is fixed at battery voltage and 4.2 volts hitting 0.5 ohms is roughly 35 watts that will decrease has the battery depletes. further more your wattage is fixed unless you rebuild the coil. Where as I can vape at 35 watts with my regulated mod and get the same quality of vapor and taste for the full life of the battery at the same wattage or easily adjust up and down for different atty's and flavors without rebuilding. Why because Wattage is wattage, AKA Power it's the power applied is what creates the vapor. When they ask how? I open up the Steam-engine.org in the browser of my smart phone to show them. I typically vape at 15-30 watts on 1.2 to 1.8 ohm builds. Still some disagree and its those whom I know not to take any kind of recommendation from.

 

[dr g]

The way I understand how the DNA40 is intended to work is that you control your vape with the power settings and your atty build. You also set a maximum coil temperature which will stop the temperature rise if the coil becomes dry. As long as the coil is wet the temperature will not rise much no matter how much power you put into it.

This is generally not the case. It has more to do with airflow, but in most cases the coil is capable of creating enough heat to pick your temperature.

I don't know if the vape can actually be controlled well using temperature. If I remember correctly from the video it has a temperature accuracy of +-10 deg F. I've never used one, but it seems to me that could well be way too much variability to be able to control the power level and give a consistent vape. I guess time will tell

It can be controlled remarkably well, it is consistent and stable.

Well I won't be getting a DNA40 for the same reason I won't be getting a P3. I already have what I need to get what I want

If I wasn't getting what I want THEN I would be looking for something that could.

Simple question; why would I want to vape at 40 watts when I can get what I want at 7-9 watts? Doesn't matter to me what others want to vape, it just matters what floats my boat.

The relationship between wattage and temperature is highly variable and can be highly unstable.

Don't conflate this technology with previous examples like VW vs VV. This changes the fundamental nature of vaping. The device isn't doing the same thing anymore.

 

[rusirius]

This is generally not the case. It has more to do with airflow, but in most cases the coil is capable of creating enough heat to pick your temperature.



It can be controlled remarkably well, it is consistent and stable.



The relationship between wattage and temperature is highly variable and can be highly unstable.

Don't conflate this technology with previous examples like VW vs VV. This changes the fundamental nature of vaping. The device isn't doing the same thing anymore.

Considering all the information you've provided I'll admit I'm intrigued. Call me a skeptic, but I still just can't see this being the phenomenal leap ahead you indicate it will be. That's not to say you're wrong, or that it won't be, I'm just having a hard time seeing it. At least right at the moment... With improvements in the technology and applying what has already been stated in this thread, then yes it has a possibility....

BUT... here's where my skepticism comes in....The only way they can calculate the temperature of the coil would be using the resistance variance as the coil heats up. That means their temperature reading is going to be an "average" of the entire coil...

So let's say I set this device for 400 degrees.... Ok great... and in a perfect world I set my power levels and with perfect wicking let's say it's hitting 340 degrees (let's say that's the boiling point of my juice).

The juice starts to run dry, the so the temperature increases... Now my coil is hitting 400 degrees... as you say, my vapor production has been reduced, but my rayon is safe and sound...

In this case, wonderful... everything has worked as expected... and I'm a happy and "safe" vaper....

But suppose as you said something happens and a small portion of my coil no longer has wick in contact with it... I get a hot spot in one of my dual large surface area coils...

Maybe the temperature in that small section has skyrocketed to 700 degrees...

But since this device is averaging the temperature over the entire length of wire it only sees an average of 398 degrees.... It happy just keeps vaping away.... all the while I'm wondering why it's tasting funny and I'm sucking those same bad things into my lungs that you were insisting would no longer happen...

So what have I really gained?

I really do get it... at least I think I do... I'm not saying it's "bad technology"... I just don't think it's the end all be all that's going to define the future...

 

[Katya]

I'll climb off my soap box now....

Great post, rusirus!

'Bout time...

 

[Katya]

Well I won't be getting a DNA40 for the same reason I won't be getting a P3. I already have what I need to get what I want

If I wasn't getting what I want THEN I would be looking for something that could.

Simple question; why would I want to vape at 40 watts when I can get what I want at 7-9 watts? Doesn't matter to me what others want to vape, it just matters what floats my boat.

I'm really excited about the 25 DNA chip that is being discussed at the end of Phil's video. Who knows, with temperature control in place, I may even be brave and try, say, 11 watts--just to find out what that high-wattage vaping is all about!

 

[Katya]

Don't conflate this technology with previous examples like VW vs VV. This changes the fundamental nature of vaping. The device isn't doing the same thing anymore.

I agree. It is a game changer.

I just don't need 40 watts. But I'll get the 25 or 20--as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Tas9158]

I was too lazy to read the whole post. But let's say you have a pretty wide coil like 10 or 11 wraps each but still have low ohms like .4 or .5. Will that translate into even more vapor? Larger surface area plus low resistance should mean more vapor right? I just got this g plat wire which I believe is supposed to provide lower resistance than other wires. I've got pretty huge clouds right
Now with that setup and my sigelei 50 watt. I just want some outside verification on this because this is my understanding as of
Now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tj99959]

This is generally not the case. It has more to do with airflow, but in most cases the coil is capable of creating enough heat to pick your temperature.



It can be controlled remarkably well, it is consistent and stable.



The relationship between wattage and temperature is highly variable and can be highly unstable.

Don't conflate this technology with previous examples like VW vs VV. This changes the fundamental nature of vaping. The device isn't doing the same thing anymore.

That's the point! I don't want to change a thing, my vape is exactly the way I want it with what I'm using now.

 

[ScottChensoda]

I was too lazy to read the whole post. But let's say you have a pretty wide coil like 10 or 11 wraps each but still have low ohms like .4 or .5. Will that translate into even more vapor? Larger surface area plus low resistance should mean more vapor right? I just got this g plat wire which I believe is supposed to provide lower resistance than other wires. I've got pretty huge clouds right
Now with that setup and my sigelei 50 watt. I just want some outside verification on this because this is my understanding as of
Now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I'm too lazy to answer.

 

[tiburonfirst]

I agree. It is a game changer.

I just don't need 40 watts. But I'll get the 25 or 20--as soon as it becomes available.

............................

 

[Ryedan]

I'm really excited about the 25 DNA chip that is being discussed at the end of Phil's video. Who knows, with temperature control in place, I may even be brave and try, say, 11 watts--just to find out what that high-wattage vaping is all about!

Katya, let's not get carried away here ... first it's 11 watts, then 12. Next you'll be vaping at 14 watts and my god, who knows what that will lead to

 

[Katya]

Katya, let's not get carried away here ... first it's 11 watts, then 12. Next you'll be vaping at 14 watts and my god, who knows what that will lead to

 

[Ryedan]

This is generally not the case. It has more to do with airflow, but in most cases the coil is capable of creating enough heat to pick your temperature.

I think of airflow as part of atty setup along with all the rest of the setup variables. They all work together.

Hmm, maybe I misunderstand you, but I don't think you can control coil temperature well with the amount of heat you pump into the coil while the coil is wet enough. You seem to be saying the same thing below. That's why I'm thinking it will be hard to control the vape by coil temperature, but coil temperature will be a great temperature limiter when the coil dries out. As I said earlier, I have not tried it myself, this is my opinion only. It will all become clear as these devices start being used.

The relationship between wattage and temperature is highly variable and can be highly unstable.

 

[dkeller717]

I have an electrical engineering background, and I must say that I really appreciate you post. It is accurate and scientifically proven. I am saving this post for reference and to share with others. In my opinion, one needs to understand these principles before even considering doing their own builds. Thank you for taking the time to put it all together for us.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[ukeman]

Most "high watt" boxes i see are focused on watts but don't talk much about volts.

The DNA30 puts out higher max voltage than the 120w Raptor box I have.

What high voltage regulated box mods are there?

 

[rgerber]

That's good enough for your Ph.D
Disertation. Good job....