Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[FranC]

I see that Dark Horse and Huntsman have already been recommended, but whatever you do, do not walk away from there without Gaia in your order. Gaia is like a amped up version of Dark Horse, so you could skip that one if you're getting Gaia.

If you don't mind some sweet note to the juice, Legend is also pretty darn awesome.

Ty Dusty .

 

[FranC]

One of my early favs was Perique from VapeRite. I have since veered away from tobacco and just getting back into it now. Found I really like Ahlusion's Smooth Criminal. So I would say I'm looking for NET's on the mild side. A small amount of sweetness works fine for me.

 

[sandman97289]

I think it safe to say that all macerated NETs will crust coils and gunk wicks. The only questions are how fast? and how badly?

This seems to be caused by two elements of macerated NETs:

1. Particulates, which are small pieces of solid cellulose that disintegrate from the tobacco into the maceration solvent. Particulates can be minimized by finer filtering.

2. Sugars, which are molecules in the casings/topping and, to a lesser extent, within the tobacco leaf flavinoids themselves. These cannot be removed by ultra-fine filtering without also seriously diminishing flavor. Cigars tend to have less sugars than pipe blends and cig/RYO tobaccos.

Particulates burn and sugars caramelize. Both produce carbon build-up on coils and gunky wicks.

Steam-distilled NETs contain almost no particulate matter and may have lower sugar content as well, so they vaporize more cleanly. They don't taste like macerated NETs, either. For pure tobacco flavor, some people prefer steam-distilled NETs; others prefer macerated NETs.

At least, that's my current understanding.

The NETs I have are twice filtered, 1 with a standard coffee filter and 2nd with a 5 micron filter. I don't think it's the particulates that are burning. My feeling is that at higher wattages (18+) not only does the sugar caramelize and burn but I do notice significant burn marks on the cotton. Essentially the cotton slows down in saturation and begins to burn as well. Both seem to then give off that burnt undesirable vape.

I've read a lot of discussions in the DIY threads and for obvious reasons there's no way to really get rid of the sugars that cause caramelization unless you invest in the steam distiller as you've mentioned. It's a question of how to prolong the onset of burning. Let's see how KGD fairs. At the moment with standard cotton I have to rewick all my RDAs 3 times a day. I'm hoping to get that down to once.

 

[boomerdude]

I guess we're good on Nic. I never have enough bottles. I got a box of a dozen 2 oz. brown glass bottles today and there's one left. The old extract shelf sure looks pretty though. All those fancy cigar labels look good on brown glass. So far the Gurkha Legend is in first with the American Spirit Perique a close second.

You picked up a liter of MFS on sale, eh? Good for you. I was sorely tempted. Heck, two liters for $100 with free shipping is a darn near unbeatable deal. However, I already have 2 1/2 liters of 100mg/ml nic in the freezer (a liter each of Heartland and RTS, plus half a liter of MFS) and another full liter in the fridge (Heartland and Vaperstek). That ought to be enough for awhile, right? So, I haven't pulled the trigger and remain hopeful that common sense will continue to prevail.

 

[checkum]

I think it safe to say that all macerated NETs will crust coils and gunk wicks. The only questions are how fast? and how badly?

This seems to be caused by two elements of macerated NETs:

1. Particulates, which are small pieces of solid cellulose that disintegrate from the tobacco into the maceration solvent. Particulates can be minimized by finer filtering.

2. Sugars, which are molecules in the casings/topping and, to a lesser extent, within the tobacco leaf flavinoids themselves. These cannot be removed by ultra-fine filtering without also seriously diminishing flavor. Cigars tend to have less sugars than pipe blends and cig/RYO tobaccos.

Particulates burn and sugars caramelize. Both produce carbon build-up on coils and gunky wicks.

Steam-distilled NETs contain almost no particulate matter and may have lower sugar content as well, so they vaporize more cleanly. They don't taste like macerated NETs, either. For pure tobacco flavor, some people prefer steam-distilled NETs; others prefer macerated NETs.

At least, that's my current understanding.

give me maceration or give me death, or something like that.

 

[checkum]

Bill, I'm finding my cigar extracts getting better the longer I steep them. I have an 120 ml jar filled with cigar juices I didn't vape over the past year. I took a vape from the jar and wow! I got a nice, if just a bit flowery cigar vape. Just goes to show, I'm never gonna get low on liquids. Especially with the liter of 100 mg. Nic I put in the freezer.

not left to steep along while, I find cigar extracts to mild for my tastes.

 

[Dusty_D]

not left to steep along while, I find cigar extracts to mild for my tastes.

You gotta try Boomer's Ramon Bueso. Not sure how old the extract is for that, but it's an amazing cigar vape.

 

[checkum]

*tickertape sounds fade in* From the Vast And Prohibitively Expensive Lab, Area 51V, deep in Frankenmizeria..*tickertape sounds fade out*

A relatively recent entrant into the world of NETs, the Smug Juice motto is It's That Good.

Are they that good?

If their HUMP offering is any indication, yes they are.


The Two-Tank Test

The test is simple. Take one Aspire Nautilus Mini and vape two tankfuls - about 4ml - through one coil.
Subjectively evaluate the juice for vapor, throat hit, and flavor.
Objectively observe coil life.

Smokie says the standard loadout of Smug Juice is 70VG/30PG. This shows in the initial shake of the bottle. The very small bubbles produced stay stuck at the top as the juice runs back down the bottle sides more slowly than the usual PG-dominant mix.

About HUMP: Sumg Juice says: "Hump is more than just your usual Turkish blend. Hump is made with a rare exotic Oriental Yenidje tobacco leaf blended with Virginia flue cured and aged Burley tobaccos, for a unique Turkish blend tobacco flavor."
The juice is a light amber color. I detected little to no aroma from the raw juice itself in my standard 18mg strength.

I looked up Yenidje - here's what TobaccoReviews.com has to say, via McClelland Tobacco Company:
"Oriental tobacco cultivation began in the 1600s around the villages of Yenidje and Kirdzhali after Venetian and Genoese traders introduced tobacco smoking to the area in the 1500s. The classic Basma seed introduced there over 300 years ago is believed by some to derive from an ancient Venezuelan variety of Nicotiana Tabacum named Barinas. The very finest Xanthi still comes from the original Yenidje (Genesaia) area of Western Thrace just north of the modern town of Xanthi. It is the Xanthi-Yaka-Basma and the Xanthi-Djebel-Basma that comprise the legendary Yenidje leaf which is thin, full-bodied, flexible, with fine veins. Full of oils, the best leaves are quite small, yellow to brown in color, with a pleasant, delicate aroma and sweet, mild, fresh flavor."


Vapor: Good to very good, in line with what one would expect from a 70VG/30PG blend.

Throat Hit: Solid. Very good.

Flavor: Superb. If you've had NETcom's Sun-Cured Turkish, you'll recognize HUMP right away. What I didn't know was that it's Yenidje that gives a Turkish that unique toasted characteristic. Is HUMP a Sun-Cured Turkish clone? No. The Virginia and Burley made HUMP brighter exactly where it should be brighter - a little on the inhale, a little on the exhale, with the Yenidje in between.


The Coil: The Aspire Bottom Vertical Coil (BVC) survived two tankfuls, and it feels like it could go an additional one to two tanks. HUMP performs very well.

Notes: Make sure you give more time than normal for the blend to bed into the wicking material to avoid initial dry hits. The first two or so hits may seem a little lacking, but at the third or fourth it all hits home perfectly.


The Verdict: HUMP is a winner for me. 9/10. I'm really looking forward to Branded, Cubano Perfecto, and Stogie. Congratulations, Smug Juice, you've won a customer.

HUMP, yet another extract to put on my list of "must get"

 

[vjc0628]

No feed back on ether vapes


guess I'm to have to order to see

trying
Vanilla Skye
Nomad
Midnite Lite
El Dorado

 

[Midniteoyl]

No feed back on ether vapes


guess I'm to have to order to see

trying
Vanilla Skye
Nomad
Midnite Lite
El Dorado

I havent tried the others to compare and thus couldnt answer... However, I would recommend adding Confederate to your order if you like Perique (and even if you dont ).. It is in my top 3, along with Top Leaf and Nomad.

 

[jefsview]

No feed back on ether vapes


guess I'm to have to order to see

trying
Vanilla Skye
Nomad
Midnite Lite
El Dorado

I'm sorry, but your question got lost in the crashing waves and ebbing tides of the latest DIY homebrew discussions.

I have only sampled EtherVapes Vanilla Skye and it is very comparable to NET.com as far as tobacco impact. Vanilla Skye's Virginia leads followed by the creamy Cavendish and Vanilla. It is a sweet vape, but unlike a lighter liquid (HHV's Shadow, for example), the tobacco is unmistakable, but the vanilla is equally strong (which NET.com's Coventry or Quicknic's Godz'nilla were not) which is a plus. Many vanilla tobaccos... the vanilla is very faint, but Ethervapes got it right... for my tastes.

Comparing Vanilla Skye to HHV's Shadow: EtherVapes is more "raw" and bold in flavor, while HHV is lighter [tobacco impact] and more refined flavor wise.

If you like NET.com, then try Ethervapes -- you might find something you enjoy.

 

[Kataphraktos]

No feed back on ether vapes


guess I'm to have to order to see

trying
Vanilla Skye
Nomad
Midnite Lite
El Dorado

I would add Eclipse to that, if you are a fan of NET.com (as I am).

 

[Jerms]

*tickertape sounds fade in* From the Vast And Prohibitively Expensive Lab, Area 51V, deep in Frankenmizeria..*tickertape sounds fade out*

A relatively recent entrant into the world of NETs, the Smug Juice motto is It's That Good.

Are they that good?

If their HUMP offering is any indication, yes they are.


The Two-Tank Test

The test is simple. Take one Aspire Nautilus Mini and vape two tankfuls - about 4ml - through one coil.
Subjectively evaluate the juice for vapor, throat hit, and flavor.
Objectively observe coil life.

Smokie says the standard loadout of Smug Juice is 70VG/30PG. This shows in the initial shake of the bottle. The very small bubbles produced stay stuck at the top as the juice runs back down the bottle sides more slowly than the usual PG-dominant mix.

About HUMP: Sumg Juice says: "Hump is more than just your usual Turkish blend. Hump is made with a rare exotic Oriental Yenidje tobacco leaf blended with Virginia flue cured and aged Burley tobaccos, for a unique Turkish blend tobacco flavor."
The juice is a light amber color. I detected little to no aroma from the raw juice itself in my standard 18mg strength.

I looked up Yenidje - here's what TobaccoReviews.com has to say, via McClelland Tobacco Company:
"Oriental tobacco cultivation began in the 1600s around the villages of Yenidje and Kirdzhali after Venetian and Genoese traders introduced tobacco smoking to the area in the 1500s. The classic Basma seed introduced there over 300 years ago is believed by some to derive from an ancient Venezuelan variety of Nicotiana Tabacum named Barinas. The very finest Xanthi still comes from the original Yenidje (Genesaia) area of Western Thrace just north of the modern town of Xanthi. It is the Xanthi-Yaka-Basma and the Xanthi-Djebel-Basma that comprise the legendary Yenidje leaf which is thin, full-bodied, flexible, with fine veins. Full of oils, the best leaves are quite small, yellow to brown in color, with a pleasant, delicate aroma and sweet, mild, fresh flavor."


Vapor: Good to very good, in line with what one would expect from a 70VG/30PG blend.

Throat Hit: Solid. Very good.

Flavor: Superb. If you've had NETcom's Sun-Cured Turkish, you'll recognize HUMP right away. What I didn't know was that it's Yenidje that gives a Turkish that unique toasted characteristic. Is HUMP a Sun-Cured Turkish clone? No. The Virginia and Burley made HUMP brighter exactly where it should be brighter - a little on the inhale, a little on the exhale, with the Yenidje in between.


The Coil: The Aspire Bottom Vertical Coil (BVC) survived two tankfuls, and it feels like it could go an additional one to two tanks. HUMP performs very well.

Notes: Make sure you give more time than normal for the blend to bed into the wicking material to avoid initial dry hits. The first two or so hits may seem a little lacking, but at the third or fourth it all hits home perfectly.


The Verdict: HUMP is a winner for me. 9/10. I'm really looking forward to Branded, Cubano Perfecto, and Stogie. Congratulations, Smug Juice, you've won a customer.

Thanks! That SmugJuice is getting very good reports so far.

 

[Jerms]

The NETs I have are twice filtered, 1 with a standard coffee filter and 2nd with a 5 micron filter. I don't think it's the particulates that are burning. My feeling is that at higher wattages (18+) not only does the sugar caramelize and burn but I do notice significant burn marks on the cotton. Essentially the cotton slows down in saturation and begins to burn as well. Both seem to then give off that burnt undesirable vape.

I've read a lot of discussions in the DIY threads and for obvious reasons there's no way to really get rid of the sugars that cause caramelization unless you invest in the steam distiller as you've mentioned. It's a question of how to prolong the onset of burning. Let's see how KGD fairs. At the moment with standard cotton I have to rewick all my RDAs 3 times a day. I'm hoping to get that down to once.

I disagree, I think it is indeed the tobacco particulates that cause gunk build-up NETs, moreso than sugars in my experience. There are of course gunky non-tobaccos, but even the very sweet ones like Bounty Hunter are much cleaner than NETs for me. The steam-distilled ones from HHV and Ahlusion are very clean, almost as clean as synthetics, even with Ahlusion's Caramel Wild Wood's sweet and rich caramel it's still a clean juice. Macerated NETs, no matter how well filtered or how dry they are, gunk. How well it's filtered makes a huge difference in how long it takes to build up, but even the cleanest macerations need coil maintenance after several mls.

Wicking media and type of build and vape style also make a difference, along with several other variables. Rayon can go noticably longer than KGD for me, but KGD is still pretty great. I have around 10 drippers in my rotation, and I rewick them all only about once a week, so I don't really find rewicking to be much of a burden. If your rewicking all of your drippers 3 times a day, (not sure how many all is for you, but I assume more than 3) that sounds like a big hassle! Hopefully you'll figure out something that works better.

 

[MikeNice81]

You gotta try Boomer's Ramon Bueso. Not sure how old the extract is for that, but it's an amazing cigar vape.

I tried one of Boomer's cigars. I remember the label just said Havana. To say it was flavor dense would be an understatement. Mild was the last word I would use to describe it.

MFT's Opulence 3 isn't as dense but I would definitely say it is on the stronger side. It comes through with more flavor than I would expect from most cigar nets. It was definitely in the same neighborhood as Netcom's Coconut Cavendish.

 

[clnire]

I'm sorry, but your question got lost in the crashing waves and ebbing tides of the latest DIY homebrew discussions.

I have only sampled EtherVapes Vanilla Skye and it is very comparable to NET.com as far as tobacco impact. Vanilla Skye's Virginia leads followed by the creamy Cavendish and Vanilla. It is a sweet vape, but unlike a lighter liquid (HHV's Shadow, for example), the tobacco is unmistakable, but the vanilla is equally strong (which NET.com's Coventry or Quicknic's Godz'nilla were not) which is a plus. Many vanilla tobaccos... the vanilla is very faint, but Ethervapes got it right... for my tastes.

Comparing Vanilla Skye to HHV's Shadow: EtherVapes is more "raw" and bold in flavor, while HHV is lighter [tobacco impact] and more refined flavor wise.

If you like NET.com, then try Ethervapes -- you might find something you enjoy.

I agree about Vanilla Skye and jef described it much better than I ever could. I just received another 30 ml yesterday.

 

[AnthonyB]

Canada has it's first NET Vendor and they are a Registered Supplier here. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...y-extracted-tobacco-now-available-canada.html

Decent looking selection on the site, and what's even better, they are literally up the road from me.

I'm going to need to look into these guys.

Dusty,

With the political environment the way it is you may have several vendors down the road from you before long.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[papabogart]

I disagree, I think it is indeed the tobacco particulates that cause gunk build-up NETs, moreso than sugars in my experience. There are of course gunky non-tobaccos, but even the very sweet ones like Bounty Hunter are much cleaner than NETs for me. The steam-distilled ones from HHV and Ahlusion are very clean, almost as clean as synthetics, even with Ahlusion's Caramel Wild Wood's sweet and rich caramel it's still a clean juice. Macerated NETs, no matter how well filtered or how dry they are, gunk. How well it's filtered makes a huge difference in how long it takes to build up, but even the cleanest macerations need coil maintenance after several mls.

Wicking media and type of build and vape style also make a difference, along with several other variables. Rayon can go noticably longer than KGD for me, but KGD is still pretty great. I have around 10 drippers in my rotation, and I rewick them all only about once a week, so I don't really find rewicking to be much of a burden. If your rewicking all of your drippers 3 times a day, (not sure how many all is for you, but I assume more than 3) that sounds like a big hassle! Hopefully you'll figure out something that works better.

Have you noticed any difference with the spring coil you built?

 

[sandman97289]

I disagree, I think it is indeed the tobacco particulates that cause gunk build-up NETs, moreso than sugars in my experience. There are of course gunky non-tobaccos, but even the very sweet ones like Bounty Hunter are much cleaner than NETs for me. The steam-distilled ones from HHV and Ahlusion are very clean, almost as clean as synthetics, even with Ahlusion's Caramel Wild Wood's sweet and rich caramel it's still a clean juice. Macerated NETs, no matter how well filtered or how dry they are, gunk. How well it's filtered makes a huge difference in how long it takes to build up, but even the cleanest macerations need coil maintenance after several mls.

Wicking media and type of build and vape style also make a difference, along with several other variables. Rayon can go noticably longer than KGD for me, but KGD is still pretty great. I have around 10 drippers in my rotation, and I rewick them all only about once a week, so I don't really find rewicking to be much of a burden. If your rewicking all of your drippers 3 times a day, (not sure how many all is for you, but I assume more than 3) that sounds like a big hassle! Hopefully you'll figure out something that works better.

I do have a few macerations going on right now. I'll try something different this time. The last time I tried the coffee press there was liquid seeping from the sides of the plunger. The other factor may be how hot the maceration was. I did notice that the "low" setting on my slow cooker is higher than 110F, so this time I'm keeping it just at the "warm" setting.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I disagree, I think it is indeed the tobacco particulates that cause gunk build-up NETs, moreso than sugars in my experience. There are of course gunky non-tobaccos, but even the very sweet ones like Bounty Hunter are much cleaner than NETs for me. The steam-distilled ones from HHV and Ahlusion are very clean, almost as clean as synthetics, even with Ahlusion's Caramel Wild Wood's sweet and rich caramel it's still a clean juice. Macerated NETs, no matter how well filtered or how dry they are, gunk. How well it's filtered makes a huge difference in how long it takes to build up, but even the cleanest macerations need coil maintenance after several mls.

Wicking media and type of build and vape style also make a difference, along with several other variables. Rayon can go noticably longer than KGD for me, but KGD is still pretty great. I have around 10 drippers in my rotation, and I rewick them all only about once a week, so I don't really find rewicking to be much of a burden. If your rewicking all of your drippers 3 times a day, (not sure how many all is for you, but I assume more than 3) that sounds like a big hassle! Hopefully you'll figure out something that works better.

I am with you. Yes, in sweet flavors (like I have experienced recently with 5P's Queenside) you can have darkening of a wick and coil -- but that's not quite gunk. I'd be willing to bet if I let the coil go indefinitely it would eventually be enough that it would turn into legitimate gunk, but for the amount of time we are talking about where we experience the dreaded gunk, it, IMO, is a matter of tobacco matter, not necessarily flavorings added.