Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[Str8vision]

I posted most of this in the Newbie forum but have crossed my 5 posts.

Summary: I love cigars, employed in healthcare, became cost prohibitive, had to stop. Looking to switch healthcare organizations; if I switch I will get cotenine tested and denied employment if detected.

I read that 0mg Naturally Extracted tobacco exists. I asked for a starter kit recommendation from my cousin, and ordered a Kangertech subbox Mini starter kit same day. It would be wonderful to have something close to cigar taste and not risk having a readable amount of cotenine (>200 ng/ml in a pee test) . Later yesterday I read on a blog post for DIY NET that some Nicotine is retained. I believe it was 2mg but would be diluted 5x for use. That is still .4 MG which is about the same as an ultralight cigarette.

So is NET listed as 0mg from an online retailer actually 0 (or at least immeasurable like tomatoes)? If really zero I'm all set to order 3crowns, Ruins, and Yesteryear. Hoping to try many more listed here. Otherwise I'm going to be stuck with the artificial.

Tell me some good news please.

- Matt -

It's difficult to extract a robust flavor from cigars, much more so than with pipe tobaccos. Personally I've found that most retail cigar NET provides little more than a shadow of the cigar's true flavor, let them age for a few months and the flavor does develop/intensify a bit. While aging improves most NET it's especially important for those made from cigars.

An avid extractor, my opinion is that all simple soak solvent based tobacco extractions leech some amount of nicotine from the tobacco. Personally I doubt that any of the "0 nic" retail NETs available are truly 100% nic free but instead likely contain trace amounts. A small amount of tobacco yields a large amount of extract which in turn flavors a -significant- amount of mixed ready-to-vape NET. For example, the amount of tobacco contained in a pack of cigarettes produces around 150ml of extract which when mixed at 20% yields 750ml of ready-to-vape NET. Any nicotine that was actually leeched from the tobacco is highly diluted in the final mixed NET but even so, it's still present.

Most people vape between 3.0 - 24.0mg, would vaping a 0 nic NET that was actually 0.2mg trigger a positive result (>200 ng/ml), on a cotinine test? I don't know, but if your job's at stake you will need to decide if it's worth the risk. Also be aware that a few "synthetic" tobaccos (artibaccos), actually contain small amounts of TA (tobacco absolute). TA is nothing more than highly condensed tobacco extract.

NETs are what I enjoy vaping, they're the reason I quit smoking a pipe so if I were in your shoes I'd likely vape the 0 nic and after a week or two pay for a "discreet" personal cotinine test just to see what did or didn't show up in the results.

 

[clnire]

Ok... so now I am learning about NET juice... and more importantly pipe tobacco styled NET juice. Sooooo I would like to ask those of you who vape pipe styled NET juice.. what type of set up do you use? What I mean is.. are you tootle puffers with low voltage batteries and tanks or do you sub ohm or maybe even have an rda that you drip on ?? I gave up a 35 year pack a day cig habit.. but also gave up a wonderful pipe habit having over 40 pipes that I have collected over the same 35 years... so if YOU would be kind enough to inform this old guy.. what you use and what type of blend.. i.e. 50/50 and what nic level you use.. I would appreciate it. I just spent a hour at NET looking at the pipe blends and I would like to try some.. but need some direction to help cut down a bit on the trial and error. I personally have several Kanger Evod2 tanks.. and several mini Pro Tank 2 and mini pro tank 3's along with a full size kanger pro tank 3.. I also have an iSubG and Arctic tank with .5 coils and two RDA set ups.. plume veil and mad hatter mini that I run .4 or .5 coils on that I build. All are powered by either my Cool Fire IV or my MVP3.0 Pro.
Thanks in advance for any and all help and suggestions
Happy Vaping
Cheers
Mace

Hi Gothic! Ya found us!

What type of tobaccos do you like? On another thread you mentioned Latakia? I am sure with a little "flavor profile" of what you like these fine folks here can steer you to some great NETs.

I use EVODs/Protanks myself, but I rebuild my coils. NETs are pretty gunky, so you must be prepared to clean/dry burn and rewick regularly.

Many here I think use drippers, but I will leave the floor open for the real pros here.

 

[chanelvaps]

Ok... so now I am learning about NET juice... and more importantly pipe tobacco styled NET juice. Sooooo I would like to ask those of you who vape pipe styled NET juice.. what type of set up do you use? What I mean is.. are you tootle puffers with low voltage batteries and tanks or do you sub ohm or maybe even have an rda that you drip on ?? I gave up a 35 year pack a day cig habit.. but also gave up a wonderful pipe habit having over 40 pipes that I have collected over the same 35 years... so if YOU would be kind enough to inform this old guy.. what you use and what type of blend.. i.e. 50/50 and what nic level you use.. I would appreciate it. I just spent a hour at NET looking at the pipe blends and I would like to try some.. but need some direction to help cut down a bit on the trial and error. I personally have several Kanger Evod2 tanks.. and several mini Pro Tank 2 and mini pro tank 3's along with a full size kanger pro tank 3.. I also have an iSubG and Arctic tank with .5 coils and two RDA set ups.. plume veil and mad hatter mini that I run .4 or .5 coils on that I build. All are powered by either my Cool Fire IV or my MVP3.0 Pro.
Thanks in advance for any and all help and suggestions
Happy Vaping
Cheers
Mace

Hi Gothic,
I can share my habits for sure, not sure if it will help.
I a rather newbie to the world of NETS myself and still in the exploration of them.
I have tried many starting with the Plume Rooms Burley and Candy and then NET.com's Blackberry AC and Big Spirit, Grilled Pineapple and a few others. Most recently River Bottoms, Count Caramel and St James Parish.
I use Taifuns most of the time, built myself, standard Kantal build at 1.2-1.5 ohms, vape at around 12-13watts on This is my preference and my ADV gigs.
I also use a Lemo, twisted coil, .8 to.9 ohms and I always have this full of some kind of net because it satisfies me more and I usually have it cranked up to 22-24 watts (it has lots of air flow) I blow my hair back with this a couple of times a day.
Wonderful Clnire, who answered your question above me, taught me to make a net of my own and I use that in my Lemo at low ohms and high watts.
So you can see you can do either, high watts and low ohms or regular.
I used protanks before and rebuilt my own coils, I think the flavor improved once I learned to rebuild the coils, add KGD (and add air control) but I do not think the flavor is anywhere as good as it is in my rebuildables.
I also have a dripper (Sigelei) and I have it built to low ohms and I use this to taste/test things.

 

[chanelvaps]

Hi Gothic,
I can share my habits for sure, not sure if it will help.
I a rather newbie to the world of NETS myself and still in the exploration of them.
I have tried many starting with the Plume Rooms Burley and Candy and then NET.com's Blackberry AC and Big Spirit, Grilled Pineapple and a few others. Most recently River Bottoms, Count Caramel and St James Parish.
I use Taifuns most of the time, built myself, standard Kantal build at 1.2-1.5 ohms, vape at around 12-13watts on This is my preference and my ADV gigs.
I also use a Lemo, twisted coil, .8 to.9 ohms and I always have this full of some kind of net because it satisfies me more and I usually have it cranked up to 22-24 watts (it has lots of air flow) I blow my hair back with this a couple of times a day.
Wonderful Clnire, who answered your question above me, taught me to make a net of my own and I use that in my Lemo at low ohms and high watts.
So you can see you can do either, high watts and low ohms or regular.
I used protanks before and rebuilt my own coils, I think the flavor improved once I learned to rebuild the coils, add KGD (and add air control) but I do not think the flavor is anywhere as good as it is in my rebuildables.
I also have a dripper (Sigelei) and I have it built to low ohms and I use this to taste/test things.

Forgot to mention that Nets will clog your coils fast so for a Protank spaced coils is better than adhered ones and you might be changing coils more than with regular juice (I used to make coils that would last me months in those darn Protanks)

 

[67Tele]

Naturally Extracted Tobacco Sale​

With some other news:
Our Labor Day SALE has begun!!
15% OFF your entire order, sale continues through Monday September 7th!


Also we are pleased to announce that the first round of testing for diketones (Diacetyl, Acetylpropionyl, and acetoin) has been completed on some of our products!

This includes a few of our "hybrid" flavorings (caramel, Madagascar vanilla), one of our eLiquids (tRY4.1) and 16 of our extracts ( Big Spirit, NS Dark, Black Cavendish, Deep Caramel Pipe, Coventry, Brigadier Peach, Orange Blossom Honey, Framboises et Vanille, Fresh Ground Mocha Cafe, Starry Night, the Ruins, Red Virginia, Choctaw Perique, Sun Cured Turkish, Smoked Latakia, and Black Pekoe Tea extract which is used in both the Black Pekoe Tea and SweeTea eLiquids).

We decided to test the extracts as they are undiluted and thus more likely to show if any diketones were present as testing the eLiquid would be more likely to show as Not Detected (ND) if the dilution brought a concentration below the limit of detection of the assay (GC-MS).

To view the results, click on the eLiquid or extract of any of the above-mentioned products, then click the Lab Analysis: diketones tab next to the product description tab.

We will continue testing until all of our extracts and hybrid flavorings have been analyzed, and will in all cases post the results as we receive them.

I clicked on The Ruins just to see what came up. Was a little disturbed to see that the lab they used identified it as "The Runs" but, a good report none the less.

 

[Metal Storm]

I've been researching NETs and hagsen keeps coming up? Is anyone familiar with Hagsen ?

I know they make quite a few different concentrated tobacco flavorings. I don't know if they are actual extracts from tobacco leaves or if some / all are synthetic. My favorite from them is "Highway". Bull City vapor is a good vendor for Hangsen and Inawera tobacco flavorings.

Concentrated Flavoring - Brands - Hangsen - Bull City Vapor

Not sure if they are NETs like you'll find discussed in this thread because they don't gunk like the NETs I've vaped from Good E Juice or NET.com. The Hangsen flavorings have a reputation for being easy / forgiving to mix with but require a long steep for best results. There is a great thread on these flavorings here:

Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only | Page 57 | E-Cigarette Forum

Hangsen also sells pre made juice but I believe it is usually very high PG blends. I use 60-70 percent VG unflavored nic base to mix the flavoring in. Highway is a nice vape, IMO.

 

[Metal Storm]

I've been enjoying the St James Parish and Porch Rocker I got from the Vaping Watch sale. Haven't finished the first bottle of either and still have four more of each.

Spent enough at Clay's site to get free shipping and got a nice variety of stuff to try. They are all 60% VG with extra extract. The Sun Cured Turkish and Choctaw Perique are fantastic. I'm going to let them all steep for a bit while I vape on the RBFS.

 

[67Tele]

I liked St. James Parish more than the Choctaw Perique. Other recent tries from Clay have been Excalibur and Peaches and Cream. I think @clnire has tried Excalibur and there's someone else. Can't remember who got the broken bottle. Anyway, mine had been sitting since May. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. There's a lot going on in there. Peaches and Cream is a perfect blend of each. Very nice. Not overly sweet or overly creamy.

 

[Metal Storm]

I liked St. James Parish more than the Choctaw Perique. Other recent tries from Clay have been Excalibur and Peaches and Cream. I think @clnire has tried Excalibur and there's someone else. Can't remember who got the broken bottle. Anyway, mine had been sitting since May. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. There's a lot going on in there. Peaches and Cream is a perfect blend of each. Very nice. Not overly sweet or overly creamy.

I can see what you mean about SJP. Every perique I've tried has been good though. Maybe it is impossible to make a bad perique vape.

Haven't tried any of his cigars but I will. Never smoked any cigars back when I was a smoker but I liked the Godfather from GEJ. It tasted a little like cigars smelled back when an uncle of mine used to smoke them. Both my parents smoked and there were cigar and pipe smokers who visited so that house was full of smoke.

Porch Rocker took a little getting used to at first as well as the Balkan from NET. Never had any Latakia AFAIK and it was strong at first but I enjoy it now.

 

[clnire]

Hum, nope, never had Excalibur. I got into home extracting and have purchased very few retail NETs since. But one of these days I am going to get more of Clay's NETs. Different flavors to try.

 

[BackDoc]

Great information guys, keep it coming........thanks

 

[67Tele]

Hum, nope, never had Excalibur. I got into home extracting and have purchased very few retail NETs since. But one of these days I am going to get more of Clay's NETs. Different flavors to try.

O.k., I blame age...
Gonna wonder about who it was now.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Just dropping in to say hey and to post that I am currently enjoying some Cadenza from Black Note. This stuff is muy beuno, erm, molto bene! All their liquids are quite kind to coils, but the rest of their offerings kinda blur together in taste, not leaving a whole lot for me to distinguish this or that...but Cadenza? Yeah, this is for me!

Edit: Forte is the other one I really enjoy. Forgot about that one.

 

[David Wolf]

O.k., I blame age...
Gonna wonder about who it was now.

@Magaro, @Vicman, @Henry Etta, are folks who got me to vaping Excalibur ..like right now

 

[ohmatt]

It's difficult to extract a robust flavor from cigars, much more so than with pipe tobaccos. Personally I've found that most retail cigar NET provides little more than a shadow of the cigar's true flavor, let them age for a few months and the flavor does develop/intensify a bit. While aging improves most NET it's especially important for those made from cigars.

An avid extractor, my opinion is that all simple soak solvent based tobacco extractions leech some amount of nicotine from the tobacco. Personally I doubt that any of the "0 nic" retail NETs available are truly 100% nic free but instead likely contain trace amounts. A small amount of tobacco yields a large amount of extract which in turn flavors a -significant- amount of mixed ready-to-vape NET. For example, the amount of tobacco contained in a pack of cigarettes produces around 150ml of extract which when mixed at 20% yields 750ml of ready-to-vape NET. Any nicotine that was actually leeched from the tobacco is highly diluted in the final mixed NET but even so, it's still present.

Most people vape between 3.0 - 24.0mg, would vaping a 0 nic NET that was actually 0.2mg trigger a positive result (>200 ng/ml), on a cotinine test? I don't know, but if your job's at stake you will need to decide if it's worth the risk. Also be aware that a few "synthetic" tobaccos (artibaccos), actually contain small amounts of TA (tobacco absolute). TA is nothing more than highly condensed tobacco extract.

NETs are what I enjoy vaping, they're the reason I quit smoking a pipe so if I were in your shoes I'd likely vape the 0 nic and after a week or two pay for a "discreet" personal cotinine test just to see what did or didn't show up in the results.

Thank you for the reply! I usually aged my cigars 2 years before firing them up; so several months after an extraction shouldn't be hard. I've come to the conclusion that I will want to try killing a bottle of NET over a long weekend and see if anything shows up on a test (pee kits are really cheap on amazon).

I did receive replies from all of the vendors I messaged. Almost all indicated that trace amounts of nicotine could be present but didn't know the numbers. QuickNicJuice, maker of Habana Daydream indicated they plan on having some sent to a lab for analysis in the near future. That will be data I think many people would like to have.

For those taking boomerdude up on his super generous offer; ask for the My Father Le Bijou. You can't beat Pepin!

 

[Gothicmace59]

Wo

Hi Gothic,
I can share my habits for sure, not sure if it will help.
I a rather newbie to the world of NETS myself and still in the exploration of them.
I have tried many starting with the Plume Rooms Burley and Candy and then NET.com's Blackberry AC and Big Spirit, Grilled Pineapple and a few others. Most recently River Bottoms, Count Caramel and St James Parish.
I use Taifuns most of the time, built myself, standard Kantal build at 1.2-1.5 ohms, vape at around 12-13watts on This is my preference and my ADV gigs.
I also use a Lemo, twisted coil, .8 to.9 ohms and I always have this full of some kind of net because it satisfies me more and I usually have it cranked up to 22-24 watts (it has lots of air flow) I blow my hair back with this a couple of times a day.
Wonderful Clnire, who answered your question above me, taught me to make a net of my own and I use that in my Lemo at low ohms and high watts.
So you can see you can do either, high watts and low ohms or regular.
I used protanks before and rebuilt my own coils, I think the flavor improved once I learned to rebuild the coils, add KGD (and add air control) but I do not think the flavor is anywhere as good as it is in my rebuildables.
I also have a dripper (Sigelei) and I have it built to low ohms and I use this to taste/test things.

Wow thanks for this info....I have two rda s. ..plume veil and mad hatter...just made new coils and fresh wicks for both. I use 26 ga wire and a 3 mil coil jig....I put two coils on each deck... 8 wraps...they read 0.5 ohms on my smok meter...just wondering what you use and how many wraps to get the ohms up higher ? Again thank you for this info
Happy vaping
Cheers
Mace

 

[Gothicmace59]

Hi Gothic! Ya found us!

What type of tobaccos do you like? On another thread you mentioned Latakia? I am sure with a little "flavor profile" of what you like these fine folks here can steer you to some great NETs.

I use EVODs/Protanks myself, but I rebuild my coils. NETs are pretty gunky, so you must be prepared to clean/dry burn and rewick regularly.

Many here I think use drippers, but I will leave the floor open for the real pros here.

First off...thank you for responding I do appreciate it very much. I had no idea one could rebuild those little coils so now I have yet another project to learn about...I thought those where sealed use and toss ...but I really live vaping its truly turned into a full in hobby for me...but I suspect I will need to wear my glasses on those little ones. Ok first i would just Like to say i am not into cloud chasing...or high nic levels....rather I am looking for flavor and all my nic is at 3mg which is plenty for me. My favorite Lat blend is.... H&H whiteknight. ..love just about any balkan sobranie blend....not a straight Lat smoker...and that is usually my morning pipe....Er was....in if all things either in my Dr grabow omega or a Missouri mark twain cob. On an all day blend I loved Match Ready Rub from pipes & cigars....in fact that's who I always ordered from and Russ and I have become great friends over the years. For a sweeter smoke or when out around non smokers...LOVED Sutliff Rum&Maple. ..I can smoke that all the time. Also enjoyed troutstream..... Scotty has a great blend there. .. If I was out and needed over the counter I loved. Sir Walter...the original...not the aromatic. Also enjoyed just about any navy flake made...in fact I had mike at blakemores custom make a pipe for me just for navy flake...I have a wonderful pipe collection that I built up over the past 35 years...which imam slowly selling on ebay. So I am more into natural type sweet blends...not a pure cavendish or heavy flavored smoker. ..well except for my Rum&Maple. ..oh and I do love vanilla. ...coconut....and licorice the black licorice. What I really do not like is anything cherry....or peach...I live in Georgia so go figure on the peach...also hazelnut...not good. Ok sorry for the book this has turned into. Thanks again for help and suggestions.
Happy vaping
Cheers
Mace.

 

[Jerms]

@Jerms Hey Buddy, Haven't seen you since A+ stopped doing Nets. How have you been? You have to tell me more about this Miska-Tonics. I was offered a sample of At the Mountains of Madness, and had to buy a 30ml. Lavender and Vanilla and Holy Cow! Stuff's amazing. Who is making this? A google search turned up NOTHING at all. Also, if I dare ask, has it been tested for DA/AP? After a two week steep, this stuff is SO rich and buttery, I'm not inhaling unless I find out it's safe. Which is OK, because just a mouth vape smells and tastes amazing....

Hey Louis. Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been checking ECF regularly for a while now.

That post you replied to was an email to me from Brian, the maker of River Bottom Fog Sauce (shared with permission). That email makes up the entirety of my knowledge about his new line, so I don't have any more info. I don't know if it will be available to purchase online. I hope so, sounds pretty tasty.

Sent from my Alcatel A851L using Tapatalk

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Hey Louis. Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been checking ECF regularly for a while now.

That post you replied to was an email to me from Brian, the maker of River Bottom Fog Sauce (shared with permission). That email makes up the entirety of my knowledge about his new line, so I don't have any more info. I don't know if it will be available to purchase online. I hope so, sounds pretty tasty.

Sent from my Alcatel A851L using Tapatalk

Well hell! Thanks for the response! The poster who did respond to my question said "I believe that was a missive from Brian of River Bottom Fog Sauce that beloved Jerms passed on to us." and I was like.... Eh WHAT?! Beloved Jerms passed on to us?!? I didn't want to ask for uh... clarification, but I'm SO FREAGIN HAPPY to see that my assumption of news of your possible demise was premature. My leap was only further bolstered by the lack of activity.. Glad to hear you are well. Miss you in the A+ thread here:
Ahlusion LLC Chat Thread | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Jerms]

Well hell! Thanks for the response! The poster who did respond to my question said "I believe that was a missive from Brian of River Bottom Fog Sauce that beloved Jerms passed on to us." and I was like.... Eh WHAT?! Beloved Jerms passed on to us?!? I didn't want to ask for uh... clarification, but I'm SO FREAGIN HAPPY to see that my assumption of news of your possible demise was premature. My leap was only further bolstered by the lack of activity.. Glad to hear you are well. Miss you in the A+ thread here:
Ahlusion LLC Chat Thread | E-Cigarette Forum

Rumors of my death are almost always exaggerated

Though I still vape and enjoy what I'm vaping, other than the physical act of vaping I haven't done much of the hobby stuff involved. Most free time has been spent learning about, looking at, and making art. I have no idea what the big deals in hardware and juice are these days. All it takes is a few months to get out of the loop with this hobby of exponential growth, and it's been a few few months for me.

I just stepped into the forum today to peak in the deals thread for potential labor day deals since I need juice, and peaked in the Ahl thread to see if any new must-try flavors were being discussed. Not doing NETs these days, except a couple I'd picked up from RBFS. I think I'm going to place a large ITCVapes order for now. I'm low on funds and was told a while back from some trusted vapers that they offer great juice for cheap.

Nice hearing from you man, I hope all is well on your end.

Sent from my Alcatel A851L using Tapatalk