Natural Tobaccos

[Jerms]

Very nice post Bill, I agree with about all you said. SC is a different animal from BGB because, well, BGB IS an animal and SC isn't. It's that lack of "wow" for me that makes SC an anytime, long period vape while BGB is awesome when in the mood and for short periods. If someone is expected to be slapped in the face with awesomeness from SC they will probably be disappointed. But give it a chance, it may just lull you into appreciation. I can enjoy it mindlessly or ponder on it's flavors.

Sometimes I love a shot of espresso, usually I enjoy a nice cup of joe with some cream and sugar. Both have their place. The coffee may not have the impact of espresso, but I can drink it all day and enjoy it. You hit the nail on the head that the great thing about SC is it's lack of being spectacular. Vurley is a best of both worlds, which means it has the lesser aspects too. I can vape it longer and more often than BGB or DD, and get more tobacco impact than SC, but if I'm craving a knock out tobacco Vurley won't do the trick, and if I just want a nice laid back, strait tobacco it won't either.

I definately have a lot of "people" in my head that crave different flavor characteristics at different times. That's why I have a lot of flavors in different categories at all times, and switch often throughout the day. My fruit/tobacco hybrid self has been yelling for attention lately, but my current collection lacks those. He will be appeased soon with my next orders though, first by Eden from HoL.

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[billherbst]

Jerms,

As I'm sure you're aware, the idea of our having many different "people" inside us---a multiplicity of differing, and sometimes conflicting identities---has been around for a long time. I can't claim it as an original thought. I plagiarize with abandon, since I don't really believe in "intellectual property."

Some of my "identity facets" are quite comfortable with the village of Bill. They go their merry way, lobbying for what they like/don't like, want/don't want, yet all the while maintaining a live-and-let-live attitude with other facets of me.

On the other hand, certain of my facets are totalitarian and dictatorial. When those fascist Bills grab the microphone and seize the podium, they act like they're the one-and-only "true" Bill, and all the other facets of my identity are nothing more than false pretenders to the throne.

Those are the parts of me that tend to get me into social trouble when I give them free rein, since they act as if it's their-way-or-the-highway. They're "right," and every opposing view is "wrong." Posting on the Forums is a near-constant reminder that I need to be careful about keeping those facets in their velvet cages, and not give them access to the keyboard. Not that I mind having some of them---those extreme dogmatic parts of me may be essential to my passion, but I can't safely let them lead the troops in public.

 

[CarbonThief]

Very nice post Bill, I agree with about all you said. SC is a different animal from BGB because, well, BGB IS an animal and SC isn't. It's that lack of "wow" for me that makes SC an anytime, long period vape while BGB is awesome when in the mood and for short periods. If someone is expected to be slapped in the face with awesomeness from SC they will probably be disappointed. But give it a chance, it may just lull you into appreciation. I can enjoy it mindlessly or ponder on it's flavors.

Sometimes I love a shot of espresso, usually I enjoy a nice cup of joe with some cream and sugar. Both have their place. The coffee may not have the impact of espresso, but I can drink it all day and enjoy it. You hit the nail on the head that the great thing about SC is it's lack of being spectacular. Vurley is a best of both worlds, which means it has the lesser aspects too. I can vape it longer and more often than BGB or DD, and get more tobacco impact than SC, but if I'm craving a knock out tobacco Vurley won't do the trick, and if I just want a nice laid back, strait tobacco it won't either.

I definately have a lot of "people" in my head that crave different flavor characteristics at different times. That's why I have a lot of flavors in different categories at all times, and switch often throughout the day. My fruit/tobacco hybrid self has been yelling for attention lately, but my current collection lacks those. He will be appeased soon with my next orders though, first by Eden from HoL.

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Mr. Mann hooked me up with Ahlusion aromatics a month or so ago. DD and BGB really weren't kind to my palate, but Vurley was pretty decent. Flash. Forward to last night, Vurley. Is quite good, and DD as well, BGB is amazing. These were already well steeped juices, so I think it's just my taste preferences changing over time and with more exposure to these NeT offerings. Mann's generosity is coming to an end unfortunately, so will be ordering some of these soon. I definitely plan to try some non aros as well, SC at the top of that list. Wish mr Mann were around to thank him some more and let him know his social experiment with me isn't a failure after all...

 

[TheCatsPajamas]

Let me take a stab at explaining. It's just a theory, mind you, but I think it has relevance to vaping in general and this thread in particular:

Yes, I taste a definite resemblance between Smooth Criminal and Dragon's Fire. Personally, I like them both, although I gravitate toward Smooth Criminal more often.

What I like about SC as an NET hybrid is that it's not spectacular. Blue Grass Burley is spectacular, but it's so idiosyncratic that I can't vape much of it at one sitting. Same with Devil Dog/Apache/London/Louisville. All amazing, but all extreme enough to be a bit much. By contrast, Smooth Criminal is definitely not amazing. The sweet/dessert/candy elements of SC and DF (and so many similar hybrids, even those with subtle fruity components), plus the less-laser-like reduced intensity of their tobaccos places them closer toward the center of the "safer" flavor bell curve that will tend to please the majority of vapers (although not necessarily hard-core NET lovers).

This is similar to knocking back a 3 oz. double-shot straight espresso made with Ethiopian Yirgacheffe beans versus drinking an 8-ounce mocha latte made with Brazilian beans, two-thirds steamed milk, and a tablespoon of chocolate syrup. Hard-core espresso geeks will sing the praises of the "pure" Ethiopian, while soccer moms will order the mocha latte every time.

Most of us tend to have many different "people" co-existing in our brains: we are hard-core geek enthusiasts, soccer moms, little kids who want a lollipop, and adults who appreciate flavors other than sweetness, such as sourness, acidity, or pungency. Proportions of this odd mix of flavor leanings may differ significantly from one person to another, and even shift within the same person from time to time, but very few of us have only one or two of all the different identities and the characteristic flavor preferences that go with them.

Just sort of by the way, an example of a third category is Vurley, which sits roughly midway between the play-it-safe, middle-of-the-road-sweetness of SC, DF, and their ilk, and the in-your-face amazing tobacco impact of BGB, DD, London/Louisville-type NETs. Vurley has the added vanilla dessert element without sacrificing much if any of the tobacco kick. And yet, Vurley isn't merely another vanilla tobacco or burley-with-vanilla. It's so beautifully blended that it becomes a creature all its own with a unique, sit-up-and-take-notice singular flavor impact.

And so, we end up with the huge juice marketplace that we have, because flavor appreciation is kaleidoscopic and constantly shifting.

:and the crowd goes wild:


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[TheCatsPajamas]

And as an old Marine colonel once told me..."And this is what makes the world spin around".

SC is horrible to me and DF is my favorite!

Enjoy your SC TCP!!!

How long did you let SC steep before you gave up on it out of curiosity?

Horrible is a strong adjective.

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[Jerms]

Those are the parts of me that tend to get me into social trouble when I give them free rein, since they act as if it's their-way-or-the-highway. They're "right," and every opposing view is "wrong." Posting on the Forums is a near-constant reminder that I need to be careful about keeping those facets in their velvet cages, and not give them access to the keyboard. Not that I mind having some of them---those extreme dogmatic parts of me may be essential to my passion, but I can't safely let them lead the troops in public.

Warning: following post contains no NET talk, so feel free to skip if staying on topic is a concern.

Those opposing views of right way vs wrong way and to each their own is, like you said, evident in everyone to varying degrees. In a former life I was a drunk, and very bull-headed. Like many alcoholics, my thinking was black-and-white to an extreem, as it was the only way I could live with myself and my behaviors. You are good or bad, right or wrong, deserving of affection or spite, and I'm the one who get's to judge you. In recovery, I was taught in order to be happy and sober I needed to learn humility, to question my thoughts and motivations, to hear the meaning in people's words and put aside my personal feelings about them (principles before personalities). I learned it's none of my buisness what others think about me, and by judging others I'm saying more about myself than them. I've come a long way, but still have many character defects because as much as I grow, I will still always be human. I also came to the table with more than my share of thinking and character defects.

I view most things now as neither black nor white, accept other opinions as valid as my own,

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[RPadTV]

Dang, all this talk of SC has me staring at the bottle of Peachy Criminal I've been steeping since early January. On paper, this should own me. I love Ahlusion's tobaccos and agree with Bill's "not amazing" view of why it's appealing. I also love Ahlusion's peach. That said, I've been disappointed by e-liquids that should have been awesome for me on paper, but didn't pan out in real life. See: HHV Georgia Peach Tobacco.

 

[Jerms]

Bumped submit too soon, continuation of last post..

.. and realize my views often morph as I go through life.

I have a couple vaping related issue that my bull-headed self likes to .... in. One is the issue that often pops up about people saying they direct-lung inhaled cigs instead of pulling into mouth and then ihaling, and also do that with vaping. One part of me says, that's fine, which ever way you enjoy. But the bigger part says NO, direct lung inhaling is the WRONG way to do it, who taught you kids how to smoke anyways. I let my dictator part of my brain take over for that issue more for humor than anything, and why not let that part play when the chips are so low to not even matter.

A slightly bigger issue that I thought of this morning about changing my stance on is Pluid. I've stated with no pulled punches how I feel about adding a substance like coloring to an eliquid for purely aesthetics. I don't care that it's probably harmless, but how dare a vendor take that chance on something that has no effect on the flavor or performance on the juice. I realized that someone could use the same argument about adding flavoring. It's probably harmless, but is more of an unknown than pg/vg and nic, so why not vape unflavored since flavoring isn't necessary. I would argue flavor IS necessary for me, but it's not any less valid to say aesthetics is important to someone elso who get's enjoyment out of the juice being green. So I will try to drop my prejudice about Pluid and remind myself what's not important to me may be important to someone else, and neither view is right or wrong.

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[whippetroy]

Want to order the Pendragon and Apache, my first try at NETs. I vape an Ego-c. How tough are the NETs on the tank and small replaceable atty setup?

 

[Bronze]

Warning: following post contains no NET talk, so feel free to skip if staying on topic is a concern.

Those opposing views of right way vs wrong way and to each their own is, like you said, evident in everyone to varying degrees. In a former life I was a drunk, and very bull-headed. Like many alcoholics, my thinking was black-and-white to an extreem, as it was the only way I could live with myself and my behaviors. You are good or bad, right or wrong, deserving of affection or spite, and I'm the one who get's to judge you. In recovery, I was taught in order to be happy and sober I needed to learn humility, to question my thoughts and motivations, to hear the meaning in people's words and put aside my personal feelings about them (principles before personalities). I learned it's none of my buisness what others think about me, and by judging others I'm saying more about myself than them. I've come a long way, but still have many character defects because as much as I grow, I will still always be human. I also came to the table with more than my share of thinking and character defects.

I view most things now as neither black nor white, accept other opinions as valid as my own,

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Good lesson...I don't care who you are. Congrats Jerms.

 

[johni]

Want to order the Pendragon and Apache, my first try at NETs. I vape an Ego-c. How tough are the NETs on the tank and small replaceable atty setup?

MOVs NETs are very equipment friendly compared to most. Their website states that they designed them to be so. I use the mega cartos and get at least 15 or more mls through one with continuous use before any loss of performance. All NETs do carry some particulate matter though and will eventually clog atties and require cleaning.

Apache is a fairly bold English pipe tobacco flavor . If you are wanting something pretty strong, it fills the bill.

Pendragon is a more subtle flavor, also a pipe, with infused cherry and vanilla. Very different from Apache.

 

[whippetroy]

MOVs NETs are very equipment friendly compared to most. Their website states that they designed them to be so. I use the mega cartos and get at least 15 or more mls through one with continuous use before any loss of performance. All NETs do carry some particulate matter though and will eventually clog atties and require cleaning.

Apache is a fairly bold English pipe tobacco flavor . If you are wanting something pretty strong, it fills the bill.

Pendragon is a more subtle flavor, also a pipe, with infused cherry and vanilla. Very different from Apache.

Thanks. I have also read that Kentucky Premium Blend may be a NET, though not identified as such like Classic Blend or Poker Blend. This is Vermillion River, by the way. Any thoughts?

 

[johni]

Thanks. I have also read that Kentucky Premium Blend may be a NET, though not identified as such like Classic Blend or Poker Blend. This is Vermillion River, by the way. Any thoughts?

VR Kentucky Pemium Blend is a NET with RY4 flavoring. It's decent if you like RY4s and more realistic being a NET. It might help if you describe what kind of tobacco you're looking for. The three you have mentioned are all drastically different flavors.

 

[Thucydides]

Thanks. I have also read that Kentucky Premium Blend may be a NET, though not identified as such like Classic Blend or Poker Blend. This is Vermillion River, by the way. Any thoughts?

They are all NETS. We've all got our own opinions about juices, and I love hearing other people's perspectives. My opinions are certainly not in alignment with many of the people here, but I enjoy hearing their takes on things and find the discussion informative enough to follow compulsively even when I'm not posting comments.

I like the Vermillion River juices better than any other NETS I've tried. I haven't had the time to write up my opinions here of all the different NETS I've tried -- work and family (I've got 5 kids) have kept me from posting the past couple of weeks as often as I like and it takes more time to post flavor descriptions than most other sorts of comments. My favorites after Vermillion River are the MyVapeJuice trio of NETS (Savage, My Hero, and Rogue -- haven't vaped them enough to come up with an obvious favorite -- they didn't strike me as terribly dissimilar in the quick tasting I did), and Mountain Oak Vapors Full Virginia Flake RY4.

I wrote up reviews of Kentucky Premium and Poker Blend over in General E-Liquid Reviews sub-forum if you're interested in my take on them, though people with higher-end equipment may not find them especially informative given the low-end setup I tested them on.

Here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-vermillion-river-kentucky-premium-blend.html
And here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...iews/373910-vermillion-river-poker-blend.html

(I tried to be as detailed as possible, not to be pedantic or pretentious, but to try to make them more accessible to other people interested in trying them. I find this sort of thing exciting, and I approach it with a good deal of enthusiasm.)

 

[TheCatsPajamas]

Mr. Mann hooked me up with Ahlusion aromatics a month or so ago. DD and BGB really weren't kind to my palate, but Vurley was pretty decent. Flash. Forward to last night, Vurley. Is quite good, and DD as well, BGB is amazing. These were already well steeped juices, so I think it's just my taste preferences changing over time and with more exposure to these NeT offerings. Mann's generosity is coming to an end unfortunately, so will be ordering some of these soon. I definitely plan to try some non aros as well, SC at the top of that list. Wish mr Mann were around to thank him some more and let him know his social experiment with me isn't a failure after all...

Carbon, I had a very similar experience as you. The Aromatics were almost threatening to me a first. I really didn't know what to think. Now I feel threatened when I start running low on any of them. They really are the finest made tobacco juices available. I love many other NETs from various vendors but these seem to be a rare gem in the world of NETs and have really raised the bar for my NET vaping experience. I hope that other vendors eventually have the same capabilities to produce this caliber of tobacco flavor but until then Im sure Wlad will stay busy releasing more aromatics. It all really comes down to using quality tobacco and the best type of extraction method possible. As well as a keen sense of blending tobacco flavors. I don't know of any other vendor that uses a pressurized CO2 extration due to the complexity of this type of extraction and the high dollar equipment necessary to execute it. I highly recommend smooth criminal but like many said today it's not about the "wow" factor like the aromatics have. It's more about a well balanced and finely crafted juice that has unique flavor and can endure long periods of steady vaping. It is very good for what it is. In my opinion there are not many vendors that have such a wide and all encompassing spectrum of juices the way Ahlusion does. There is something for everyone at A+. Try Blue Fairy and W&A sasparilla. But this also because other vendors have not been in the flavor industry for 10+ years like Wlad. Do you know he used to make base flavorings for ice cream??? Interesting. You'd be hard pressed to find a vendor who would share so much intimate detail about their operation and their history and how they came to be. I wonder how Adam got into making juice? I'm glad you have found the same liking for these juices. I recommend trying all of them. When my next Ahlusion order arrives Ill have tried all of the aro's. I have yet to be disappointed by a single one. Can anyone else say that they like every single tobacco from a single vendor. I hope so because its a beautiful thing to find.

And I talk to Mann regularly Ill be sure to pass along your gratitude and new found liking for these juices. He will be very pleased to hear this


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[gthompson]

Can anyone else say that they like every single tobacco from a single vendor.

I can honestly say I've not liked every single tobacco from any vendor. But we all have different tastes.

 

[NoMoreTequila]

Bumped submit too soon, continuation of last post..

.. and realize my views often morph as I go through life.

I have a couple vaping related issue that my bull-headed self likes to .... in. One is the issue that often pops up about people saying they direct-lung inhaled cigs instead of pulling into mouth and then ihaling, and also do that with vaping. One part of me says, that's fine, which ever way you enjoy. But the bigger part says NO, direct lung inhaling is the WRONG way to do it, who taught you kids how to smoke anyways. I let my dictator part of my brain take over for that issue more for humor than anything, and why not let that part play when the chips are so low to not even matter.

A slightly bigger issue that I thought of this morning about changing my stance on is Pluid. I've stated with no pulled punches how I feel about adding a substance like coloring to an eliquid for purely aesthetics. I don't care that it's probably harmless, but how dare a vendor take that chance on something that has no effect on the flavor or performance on the juice. I realized that someone could use the same argument about adding flavoring. It's probably harmless, but is more of an unknown than pg/vg and nic, so why not vape unflavored since flavoring isn't necessary. I would argue flavor IS necessary for me, but it's not any less valid to say aesthetics is important to someone elso who get's enjoyment out of the juice being green. So I will try to drop my prejudice about Pluid and remind myself what's not important to me may be important to someone else, and neither view is right or wrong.

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It's funny. I was trying to picture Direct-lung inhale and only nitrous-oxide and maybe paint? came to mind. Ugh!!! Crazy! All the flavor not to mention a good part of the nicotine are absorbed from the mouth. Never heard about that.
Interesting thoughts on Pluid and artificial coloring as well!
There has been a lot of Good writing on this excellent thread lately! GT has amazed me once again by how he has the ability to say so much with so few words.
So let's keep it up! Maybe we can find some other enjoyably contentious subject matter to spur it on.

 

[NoMoreTequila]

OK, it seems like everyone usually talks about taste when describing or critiquing a juice. I find myself when analyzing the attributes of a juice to consider the room notes. I admit that it is secondary to the initial flavor experience and yet I think the lingering aroma or 'room notes' play just as vital a role in my final evaluation of that juice.
IMHO, HHVs NETs are light years ahead of most as far as aroma!
Have Fun! Play nice.

 

[TheCatsPajamas]

How long did you let SC steep before you gave up on it out of curiosity?

Horrible is a strong adjective.

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Soooo.....


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[Jerms]

Not to yet again derail this thread about a non-NET juice (I'm quite good at that) but since I know there are a few Gold by NLV fans here, I'm curious if there are any other "tobacco" flavors by them anyone would also suggest. I'm really liking Gold and Bounty Hunter (yes, BH is very sweet, but I'm often a very sweet type of guy).

I asked about Renegade (their RY4) in the big RY4 roundup, but also eyeballing Linerider, Litehouse, and the new Harbor Nite. Worth ordering for anyone here as an artificial tobacco, or more likely, as good dessert vapes? They be a 2-trick pony (or to many on here, a 1-trick pony)?

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