I got mine here: iGo-L Rebuildable Atomizer - Rebuildable Atomisers - PV Parts/Mods
Hopefully they'll ship to you as well.
Really happy with mine!
Natural Tobaccos
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I got mine here: iGo-L Rebuildable Atomizer - Rebuildable Atomisers - PV Parts/Mods
Hopefully they'll ship to you as well.
Really happy with mine!
Ok, forgive me because I know this has been over. Probably many times. But can someone explain the different types of NET. TA is the only one I even know the name of. But I don't have a clue what it is.
Ok, forgive me because I know this has been over. Probably many times. But can someone explain the different types of NET. TA is the only one I even know the name of. But I don't have a clue what it is.
Essentially, you've got maceration--soaks in PG or PG/VG (like GeJ, HoL, and MOV--though I think there is something extra going on with Apache); organic ethyl alcohol extraction (HHV and a couple others); pressurized CO2 (Ahlusion). I don't really know what VapeRite uses and I think W2V uses a combination of techniques (maybe soaking and pressing?) VCV has a way of making their TA that is different from the common TA. They, if I remember correctly (but don't quote me), do a PGA extraction of tobacco into TA and somehow manage to "clean" or wash the alcohol content from it--I have never detected any semblance of alcohol from VCV's TA. Regular TA, think Perfumer's Apprentice, is used by a lot of vendors, but most notably Mom and Pop's and Moondrop.
Here is a post I made about M&P's usage of TA: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/274904-natural-tobaccos-81.html#post7861216
This is some research I obtained about the making of TA (normal TA):http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/274904-natural-tobaccos-83.html#post7882064 As far as I know, that info is mostly right, but take it with a grain of salt.
One aspect of these processes that is not revealed by hardly any vendor is their filtration methods. As far as I can tell, how one filters NETs can mean the difference between one vendor's juice tasting one way and another tasting completely different, though they may use similar tobaccos and extraction techniques.
This may not be what you were asking, but the biggest difference to each vendor's NETs is the overall approach to flavors more than just extraction or filtration.
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And I'll add that many of us separate TA ( tobacco absolute ) and TE ( tobacco extract ) out from the other processes that we do call NET in our own definitions. So if one of us that do that post's about an e-liquid being a NET... we are also implying they aren't TA or TE. Technically this isn't correct as they are all types of extractions from natural tobaccos... but we do it anyway.
And I'll add that many of us separate TA ( tobacco absolute ) and TE ( tobacco extract ) out from the other processes that we do call NET in our own definitions. So if one of us that do that post's about an e-liquid being a NET... we are also implying they aren't TA or TE. Technically this isn't correct as they are all types of extractions from natural tobaccos... but we do it anyway.
The distinction is generally needed. I will always consider VCV an NET simply because they do it in-house (not something all vendors do) and not even through normal means of making TA. Plus, it tastes unique to the tobacco and not a general perfumey, ashy, nondescript taste as normally associated with TA.
On the other hand, as I have said in previous posts, if juice X has a drop of TA, I wouldn't call that juice NET, it's just a juice with TA--though that TA is an extract of tobacco. If a juice only has TA, it is a TA juice, though TA is, as you point out, an extracted tobacco. It's like orange juice vs. orange juice concentrates.
Here is an email exchange I went through just today. I won't add the vendor's name here, but I find this to be telling. See what is answered and what isn't. No vendor that extracts will let this one hang out there without addressing it (even Don at BWB would probably, at least, address the TA issue).
Today I asked a vendor this: Are your tobacco juices made from tobacco absolute or some other kind of extract of tobacco. Or, are your tobacco juices made from artificial tobacco flavors? I think you all use some kind of extract, but I mainly want to know if its tobacco absolute.
Response: The XXXX eliquid flavors are from extracts and not artificial flavors. For example, the XXXX Menthol flavor is derived from the menthol plant and not a mix of artificial flavors that are formulated to taste like "menthol".
Thank you
See how they danced around the question? I will address this juice if and when I get it, but I got EXACTLY the response I knew I was going to get. We read between the lines.
Jerms, I think he must've meant spearmint! LOL
I will inquire more, but only after I get my order (if I place one). LOL. I never want to pester vendors too much before I get my order--call it a habit from working in the restaurant business.
Taken from their website:
"........We took a different approach as we found that all eliquid is made with extracts designed for eating. In other words, they work on the senses of the tongue. Since e-liquid is made for vaping, we worked with companies that work with chemist to find the perfect extracts that work on the olfactory senses. When you inhale the vapor you will really get a sense of the flavor and on exhalation as well. The flavor really comes alive with no chemical or perfumery background tastes. You will also notice a very pleasurable aftertaste that is quite refreshing. The crisp, clean taste is very noticeable when compared to other e-liquids on the market today. The extracts were created with safety in mind as well. A lot of care and effort was put into making sure no carcinogens are in our liquids....."
Ahem, say what? "[W]e worked with companies that work with chemist to find the perfect extracts that work on the olfactory senses." That line sticks out like a sore thumb! "Olfactory senses?" Hmmm...so, a sense of smell right? Smell?!? Maybe they have a chemist, or maybe an apprentice from a perfumer, like a perfumer's apprentice? LOL
p.s. I haven't mentioned their name because I like the aspect of talking about a nameless vendor (for now).
The primary source of menthol is the Mentha arvensis plant... see Mentha arvensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It can however be derived ( naturally ) from other mint plants as well... see Menthol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't claim to know more than menthol itself doesn't taste like spearmint or peppermint ( but can be extracted from those plants ).
It can however be derived ( naturally ) from other mint plants as well... see Menthol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't claim to know more than menthol itself doesn't taste like spearmint or peppermint ( but can be extracted from those plants ).
Jerms, I think he must've meant spearmint! LOL
I will inquire more, but only after I get my order (if I place one). LOL. I never want to pester vendors too much before I get my order--call it a habit from working in the restaurant business.
Taken from their website:
"........We took a different approach as we found that all eliquid is made with extracts designed for eating. In other words, they work on the senses of the tongue. Since e-liquid is made for vaping, we worked with companies that work with chemist to find the perfect extracts that work on the olfactory senses. When you inhale the vapor you will really get a sense of the flavor and on exhalation as well. The flavor really comes alive with no chemical or perfumery background tastes. You will also notice a very pleasurable aftertaste that is quite refreshing. The crisp, clean taste is very noticeable when compared to other e-liquids on the market today. The extracts were created with safety in mind as well. A lot of care and effort was put into making sure no carcinogens are in our liquids....."
Ahem, say what? "[W]e worked with companies that work with chemist to find the perfect extracts that work on the olfactory senses." That line sticks out like a sore thumb! "Olfactory senses?" Hmmm...so, a sense of smell right? Smell?!? Maybe they have a chemist, or maybe an apprentice from a perfumer, like a perfumer's apprentice? LOL
p.s. I haven't mentioned their name because I like the aspect of talking about a nameless vendor (for now).
Lol. I've heard of olfactory SYSTEM, which contain receptors that allows us to have a SENSE of smell, but I don't think the words "olfactory senses" are meant to be side-by-side. Our sense of taste and sense of smell do work together, but are two seperate senses. I don't see how making extracts that focus on the olfactory system is somehow better than working on an extract that tastes good (which would work on how our tounge AND sense of smell work together), but what do I know.
I agree with them that most (not all, like they say) juices are made with extracts specifically made for use in food (or perfume, so our sense of olfactory lmao) and that a good approach would be to make extracts specifically meant to vaping. From what I understand Ahlusion does that. VCV does too, since normal TA is made for perfume but their TA is made specifically for vaping. Actually, all NETs are extracts made specifically for vaping. I don't eat much Cavendish candy or Burley burritos.
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I knew nothing about it either which way. The only thing I know about menthol is that, for me, it means DO NOT BUY! haha. AeJ says they "grow" their own menthol crystals so I guess that would be synthesising?
That's just the scientific name for a specific mint plant. Menthol CAN be made from it's other name, corn mint, just like it can be made from any mint plant, but is corn mint isn't grown to be used to make menthol. Peppermint oil is by far the most commonly used to make menthol crystals.
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Menthol is a very simple compound that all plants in the mint family have that creates a cooling effect. Spearmint, peppermint, and corn mint contain a lot of menthol which is the oil of the mint crystalized. Very easy to make synthetically, and it's chemically exact from when it's made naturally. So "natural" menthol is no way surperior or different from synthesised.
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You are quite right Jerms. The sense of smell, or olfaction, comes to us via the olfactory system. The term olfactory sense is quite inaccurate and not proper to use, medically speaking.
From a medical dictionary:
olfaction /ol·fac·tion/ (ol-fak´shun)
1. smell; the ability to perceive and distinguish odors.
2. the act of perceiving and distinguishing odors.
And as to recent work and evidence of how the olfactory system works and the genetics that encode the sense of smell (i.e. encode the receptors on the cell surface):
"Richard Axel and Linda Buck discovered a large gene family -- 1,000 genes, or 3 percent of the human total -- that coded for olfactory receptor types. They found that every olfactory receptor cell has only one type of receptor. Each receptor type can detect a small number of related molecules and responds to some with greater intensity than others. Essentially, the researchers discovered that receptor cells are extremely specialized to particular odors.
Richard Axel and Linda Buck (Nobel Prize winners in Physiology/Medicine in 2004 for this groundbreaking work) also found that each olfactory receptor type sends its electrical impulse to a particular microregion of the olfactory bulb. The microregion, or glomerulus, that receives the information then passes it on to other parts of the brain. The brain interprets the "odorant patterns" produced by activity in the different glomeruli as smell. There are 2,000 glomeruli in the olfactory bulb -- twice as many microregions as receptor cells -- allowing us to perceive a multitude of smells."
This isn't without controversy of course, as another scientist has a different theory:
"Biophysicist Luca Turin developed the quantum vibration theory in 1996 and suggests that olfactory receptors actually sense the quantum vibrations of odorants' atoms. While molecular shape still comes into play, Turin purports that the vibrational frequency of odorants plays a more significant role. He estimates that humans could perceive an almost infinite number of odors with only about 10 receptors tuned to different frequencies."
Suffice it to say, I also agree that since the olfactory system and the gustatory (taste) system work in conjunction with each other (and impact formation of memory as well!) that focusing on the sense of smell alone over the sense of taste, or better yet, both olfaction AND gustation, would impart a better vape experience.
Now Jerms, you may be onto something at the end there, black cavendish candy sounds divine! Burley burritos? hmm, not so sure but I'll try almost anything once!
Yay, I love learning new things from this thread lol. My olfactory bulb is humming with pleasure. (If that site gets to make up science I do too.)
Right after I typed cavendish candy I thought; wait, I would so buy that. I wonder if something like an HHV extract that is sweet and tasty would make into a good candy. If they sell it, I would buy it.
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Right after I typed cavendish candy I thought; wait, I would so buy that. I wonder if something like an HHV extract that is sweet and tasty would make into a good candy. If they sell it, I would buy it.
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I've said it before: any vendor who takes the time and effort to extract their own tobacco would happily talk your ear off about the varieties and leaves used. They are PROUD of it. They wouldn't dodge the question like that.
Turin is one of those rare scientists who actually has a gift for writing. He has authored two books: The secret of scent, which is mostly about his vibrational theory of olfaction, and Perfumes: the guide (co-written with Tania Sanchez), which, after the atlas and the dictionary, is the most-used reference book in my home.
It is informative and hilarious to read even if you are not a perfume tragic like I am. I will try and post some quotes later today.He is also the subject of an excellent book, The emperor of scent by Chandler Burr, which is chock full of pop-science goodness.
After enjoying W2V Louisville yesterday, I've been vaping London today. This is a nice, rich, and straightforward tobacco. Whereas Louisville has a slight sweetness, London is smokey with a touch of spice (at least, that's impression it made after a few hours of dripping). I'm getting more Latakia than anything else, which in my experience can be a polarizing tobacco (though not as polarizing as perique). Of course I need to spend more time with it, but my first impression is that this is a fantastic choice for vapers that one a deep and full-flavored tobacco without any sweetness.
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