Natural Tobaccos

[Evil Speakers]

Been wondering if the majority of the contributors to this thread are former/occasional pipe and cigar smokers. I have never smoked a pipe and have only had a handful of cigars. I didn't really care for any of the cigars I had. I have always been a parliament light smoker (down to 3 or less a day at this point)... Anyway, despite not smoking cigars or pipes, I find myself preferring those types of stronger liquids when it comes to vaping. Only downside to this is it is kind of hard to describe/review liquids or interpret descriptions/reviews when I can't compare it to an actual cigar or pipe blend.

 

[Dusty_D]

Never smoked a pipe, but always loved the smell of somebody smoking one. Like you, I've had a handful of cigars over the years. Marlboro Lights and B&H Mild smoker here until I quit almost 3 years ago.

Love a good strong flavourful NET. Let your tastebuds do the talking. There will be some flavours you like, and others you don't. Make a note of what you like, and over time you will find your personal preference. If you're lucky, you'll find that most of the stuff you like share certain similarities, either to "tobacco" types, or a certain flavour (coffee, fruits etc.).

Have fun doing it and share your progress with us.

 

[AnthonyB]

Hi Mr Mann,

Yes I have HH357's, 510s, 901s, etc. The juice doesn't taste 'off' it just doesn't taste like much of anything apart from, well, a cigarette really. I am not getting depth, or complexity or cigar notes. I am just getting good old fashioned cigarette flavour. I somehow doubt this is how it is meant to taste and I think it might be because it hasn't steeped enough. I am getting the same effect with Gej's Fire Cured, Wranger Light and Vita Bella.

The ones that do actually have quite a significant flavour in the range is the perique and the organic tobacco #1.

I think the first mentioned juices may need more steeping but it's been 5 weeks since it shipped.

I am going to give them a hit in my 801 Cisco. Nothing has the deep flavour of these atty's. If the flavour isn't there I am putting them back into a deep-steep.

Do you have any regular attys? That seems like a silly question, and probably is (I am sure you do have some), but I feel (as always) that regular attys (maybe an HH?) are always a win with NETs. I have no qualms with RBAs necessarily, but I have yet to have NET taste off or not quite right unless it was clearly a bad juice.

 

[AnthonyB]

Thanks Bronze and Tezca.

Tezca my juice actually tastes not far off what you described. Slightly woody, mellow, a little sweet, straight forward tobacco. This is why I like it already. It's almost a perfect cigarette substitute with a little more. I am finding this is the case with Wrangler Light, Fire Cured and Vita Bella and to be honest, I'm having trouble differentiating them. They all seem so similar with only subtle variances in flavour.

Only organic Tob #1 and Perique have significant flavour differences being bold, strong cigar like vapes.

I am going to follow Bronze's advice and try a variety of wattages. I used to be all synthetics PG low res vapor, (apart from Vaperite and a small stock of BWB) and am used to the sweet spot being somewhere in the upper thresholds of the juices, right before they start to taste acrid.

I may have to change my approach with these high quality nets.

Anthony, my Patriot is 3-1/2 months old and its delicious. But to be honest, I thought it was delicious at 2 weeks. Patriot seemed to find its spot quicker than most GeJ juices...to me anyway. It almost sounds like you are putting too much heat on it. Most people's inclination is to increase watts. Mine is to decrease them. I enjoy a cooler vape anyway. I think you are on the right path. Fiddle with your voltage settings and see where that takes you. It can be applied to more juices than just Patriot too. Good luck.

 

[billherbst]

Been wondering if the majority of the contributors to this thread are former/occasional pipe and cigar smokers. I have never smoked a pipe and have only had a handful of cigars. I didn't really care for any of the cigars I had. I have always been a parliament light smoker (down to 3 or less a day at this point)... Anyway, despite not smoking cigars or pipes, I find myself preferring those types of stronger liquids when it comes to vaping. Only downside to this is it is kind of hard to describe/review liquids or interpret descriptions/reviews when I can't compare it to an actual cigar or pipe blend.

In my case, not really. Over 40 years of smoking cigarettes, I dabbled in cigars and pipes on rare occasions, mostly in my 20s, but cigs were always my primary poison, far and away. My addiction to cigarettes was akin to a really terrible love affair, where you desire your lover like there's no tomorrow and can't stay away, but actually don't like, respect, or admire him/her---and he/she feels the same about you. Obsession combined with mutual disdain and disrespect. A bad combination.

Most of my knowledge about cigar and pipe tobaccos has been amassed since I began vaping (and quit smoking) 2 1/2 years ago, and much of what I've learned comes from this thread, either directly or indirectly.

When I smoked, I couldn't have told you the difference between Virginia and Latakia, or Burley and Perique, or flue-cured versus air-dried. Nor did I have a clue as to what distinguished Cavendish pipe tobacco from Black Cavendish. Now I do. All because of the pursuit of better (meaning more authentic-tasting) tobacco flavorings for vaping juices. Go figure. I even know how to make maceration-based NETs now (and I have...).

 

[AnthonyB]

Only smoked cigars a handful of times and never a pipe but I too prefer cigar like flavours in vaping. I didn't know anything about the various types of tobaccos. If someone asked me to define burley before I started vaping I would say it was a aromatic mixture used to attract fish.

Like Dusty I was a B & H smoker and then started to smoke Mild Seven's as my preferred cigarette after first having them when I went to Japan and Thailand.

Never smoked a pipe, but always loved the smell of somebody smoking one. Like you, I've had a handful of cigars over the years. Marlboro Lights and B&H Mild smoker here until I quit almost 3 years ago.

Love a good strong flavourful NET. Let your tastebuds do the talking. There will be some flavours you like, and others you don't. Make a note of what you like, and over time you will find your personal preference. If you're lucky, you'll find that most of the stuff you like share certain similarities, either to "tobacco" types, or a certain flavour (coffee, fruits etc.).

Have fun doing it and share your progress with us.

 

[Evil Speakers]

Have fun doing it and share your progress with us.

I have found it to be much more fun than smoking, so many more options. The experience has been comparable to discovering craft beer after years of drinking Miller lite.

By Monday I'll have Devil Dog! and Apache in my hands... I will certainly let you all know my thoughts.

 

[Evil Speakers]

In my case, not really. Over 40 years of smoking cigarettes, I dabbled in cigars and pipes on rare occasions, mostly in my 20s, but cigs were always my primary poison, far and away. My addiction to cigarettes was akin to a really terrible love affair, where you desire your lover like there's no tomorrow and can't stay away, but actually don't like, respect, or admire him/her---and he/she feels the same about you. Obsession combined with mutual disdain and disrespect. A bad combination.

Best description of cigarette addiction ever.

 

[shatner]

Hi Mr Mann,

Yes I have HH357's, 510s, 901s, etc. The juice doesn't taste 'off' it just doesn't taste like much of anything apart from, well, a cigarette really. I am not getting depth, or complexity or cigar notes. I am just getting good old fashioned cigarette flavour. I somehow doubt this is how it is meant to taste and I think it might be because it hasn't steeped enough. I am getting the same effect with Gej's Fire Cured, Wranger Light and Vita Bella.

The ones that do actually have quite a significant flavour in the range is the perique and the organic tobacco #1.

I think the first mentioned juices may need more steeping but it's been 5 weeks since it shipped.

I am going to give them a hit in my 801 Cisco. Nothing has the deep flavour of these atty's. If the flavour isn't there I am putting them back into a deep-steep.

Give it a couple more weeks and the flavors should really bloom.

 

[Evil Speakers]

May not be the place for it, but I'm right there with you, Shatner.

 

[garz]

Are MOV, Gold Label flavors pre-steeped? I just got 3 bottles of different flavors and they all share the same exact smell, and out of the 2 I tried they both taste almost identical. I'm actually not digging the flavors at all... Anything I can do or add to make them better? Cause at this point I feel like throwing them out considering they're not selling.

 

[Nick Fantastic]

PM'd ya Garz.


Also, has anyone seen the new offering from MOV? HEY JACK | Maple Cavendish NET E-Liquid

 

[EleanorR]

NICK! Your ears must have been burning -- folks were pining to hear from you earlier this week.

Hope you're doing well!

 

[vap0rator]

Okay so I am having some difficulties with a liquid everyone claims tastes like a cigarette or a cigar and which seems to be enjoyed universally, but I just don't get it. I am talking about Dark Horse - HHV.

I am trying to like this liquid, no I am trying to love it. It's hard not to like HHV liquids the same way it's hard not to like chocolate cake. Dark Horse is easily vapable, I could probably finish a 15 ml bottle unlike other liquids that have been more miss than hit for me. But I am not drawn to it at all and it does NOT taste like a cigar or cigarette to me. All of HHV juices are sweet, some, very sweet, and as a result don't taste like tobacco at all to me. I don't taste tobacco on the inhale or exhale. I wouldn't even know they were a NET if I didn't read it on the site's info. I can tell Plumes of Vapor's Candied Cavendish is a NET and I can taste tobacco mixed in with the sweetness but I don't get that with HHV liquids.

Don't get me wrong, HHV juices are some my favourites. I particularly like Dragon's Fire, Pirate's Booty and a bunch of others. Dark Horse in particular just tastes sweet and lacks any other noticable flavour for me. If I had to name I would call it sweet nothing. Somebody once said it tastes like a marlboro but I think it tastes nothing like a marlboro. Plumes of Vapor's Marlboro tastes like a marlboro. HHV's Dark Horse tastes like subdued icing sugar.

My Dark Horse is about 3 or 4 weeks old. Could it be steeping? Does the sweetest level out a bit with some steeping or does it get sweeter still?

Someone straighten me out here.

I just got my sample pack from HHV. Legend, Pirate's Booty, Shadow, and DarkHorse. I've only tried the legend thus far. Pretty dry and very light on flavor. It was nice though as I enjoyed a cup of coffee lounging in the courtyard at school.

 

[beckyblue]

Been wondering if the majority of the contributors to this thread are former/occasional pipe and cigar smokers. I have never smoked a pipe and have only had a handful of cigars. I didn't really care for any of the cigars I had. I have always been a parliament light smoker (down to 3 or less a day at this point)... Anyway, despite not smoking cigars or pipes, I find myself preferring those types of stronger liquids when it comes to vaping. Only downside to this is it is kind of hard to describe/review liquids or interpret descriptions/reviews when I can't compare it to an actual cigar or pipe blend.

Hi, dgmcferrin. Starting at age 13, I smoked an absurd number of Parliament Lights, as well. Those and hand-rolled were just about it for me (with a few brief wanderings, obviously). Since that was your brand, maybe it might be worth mentioning that HHV's Huntsman and GeJ's Patriot are my go-to juices for the times an occasional nasty Parliament craving pops up. When I want to remember my grandfather's pipes, I like GeJ's Vita Bella and Perique. I, too, find their flavors somewhat difficult to capture in a review because largely they're just evocative of fond memories. To selfishly stray a bit from your inquiry, I'm pretty down lately because I've developed a late-acquired pg sensitivity, and a number of GeJ's juices are not available in all or nearly all vg. I'm very grateful for HHV's Purity line, and I'm enjoying a number of those juices, but I will miss that evocative pipe je nais se quoi from those GeJ flavors.

 

[vap0rator]

Give it a couple more weeks and the flavors should really bloom.

I'm pretty new to vaping, and the whole reason I started was to quit smoking. It's been working out thus far with only a couple of slip ups. When vaping, I really only want tobacco flavors. I do not like all the fruity, candy, stuff out there. I have bought some HHV samples to start trying these NETs. So far a little dry and very soft flavor. I see a lot of discussion on this thread about 'steeping'. I am not sure what that is exactly, and why? Does it really make a difference? I'm a pretty impatient person by nature and when I buy something I want to use it right away. Deffinitely not want to wait 2 months. LOL.

 

[Dusty_D]

Are MOV, Gold Label flavors pre-steeped? I just got 3 bottles of different flavors and they all share the same exact smell, and out of the 2 I tried they both taste almost identical. I'm actually not digging the flavors at all... Anything I can do or add to make them better? Cause at this point I feel like throwing them out considering they're not selling.

You can throw them to me..

I did not like mine at all too. Let them sit for 3 weeks, and suddenly they were better. A month later.. hmm, I'm starting to see what others are saying.

They will continue to steep and I will continue testing them as they improve.

Time is what YOUR juices need too.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Just got off the phone with Darth Vapers.

On this thread I spoken about my bottles of Darth Vapers (Vanilla Tobacco and Cocobacco--both with double flavor) having a similar taste to the Vermillion River tobaccos---dry and slightly ashy; maybe TA? Nope. More like an essential oil, but it tastes like a mild TA. In the Vermillion River sub-forum's Let's set the record straight thread I made, Old Gruss from Vermillion said this:

.....I really can't say the tobaccos that we actually use because that is somewhat of a trade secret. The extraction process used is a steam distillation process. We decided a few years back but that process was best left to the experts so we have work with the same company now for a few years to do our extraction process for us. We have found this gives us better consistency and lab quality results with each batch. We found the biggest trouble with this process or any process using natural ingredients is consistency. The joint effort helps us insure consistency and quality in our product, and quite honestly I don't think we could keep up with the old fashion way anymore, LOL. As for our Classic and Poker blends the process is the same, it just starts with different tobaccos.

Now, this dry and ashy taste that I get from Vermillion and Darth Vapers is not quite the same dry and ashy taste from, say, Moondrop and Mom and Pops tobaccos. Some of Moondrop and M&P (or any other common TA users) have that top perfume note as well as being dry and ashy--VR and DV do not (at least from the ones I have tried).

So, VR admits to getting their extracted tobacco via SD (steam distillation) and it's obtained via third party. Darth Vapers clearly asserts on their website (and to me on the phone) that they make their own extracted tobacco from SD in-house. I can't remember what the woman's name was that I talked to, but she said the process is "similar to making essential oils." Does that matter? No, not really. Does that explain a lot? Yes. TA is a stronger version of an essential oil made only by solvent extraction.

Many have stated that VR's tobaccos all taste alike from their Kentucky Blends and I would agree--this is also somewhat implied in the post by Old Gruss when he stated that the Poker Blends have "different tobaccos" which leads me to believe that the KC Blends have the same.

My talks with DV today gave me a little insight into a few more things. They use 5 different tobaccos (won't state which) in different combinations for their extracted tobacco; some of the juices have the same base, i.e., RY4 and RY5 (plus third one that I forgot). Their juice, Berserk, is a juice that has it's own base tobacco flavor (and a few more--once again, I can't remember). In a few of their tobaccos they use some artificial tobacco flavorings on top to get the desired taste. They also state they use other extracted flavors, organic flavors, and or artificial flavors that are not tobacco. Which has which is a guessing game, though all the juices with extracted tobacco will say in the description.

What does all this mean? Well, I am convinced that DV makes their own tobacco extracts (like essential oils that taste somewhat like TA) but that it carries different flavors than simple Perfumer's Apprentice tobacco absolute. VR gets their extracts (which taste the same to me as some of DV's extracts) from a third party and I do not believe it is the same TA as Perfumer's Apprentice style TA.


Out of the 23 tobacco liquids Darth Vapers sells, these are the flavors that have tobacco extract:

Vanilla Tobacco E-Liquid
RY5
RY4
Ghost Peachbacco E-Liquid
Cranbacco E-Liquid (cranberry tobacco)
Cocobacco
Bluebacco (blueberry tobacco)
Black Cherry Tobacco
Berserk (tobacco and a "whisper of citrus")
B.F.F. (Hazlenut tobacco--supposed to be paired with coffee)
Applebacco

I'll report back with thoughts after I get a sample pack.

***Edit: not all dry tasting NETs use tobacco absolute and sometimes smokey flavors can be described as ash-like; once you've tasted the ash of TA, you'll know the difference between smoky and ash. I personally like the ash taste if handled properly.

***Edit 2: I should also note that the specific taste I reference from VR and DV came from extensive steeping. I did not notice the ash when fresh or even a few weeks of a steep. Those notes came out after at least 3 - 6 month steeps.

 

[CarbonThief]

Thanks Bronze and Tezca.

Tezca my juice actually tastes not far off what you described. Slightly woody, mellow, a little sweet, straight forward tobacco. This is why I like it already. It's almost a perfect cigarette substitute with a little more. I am finding this is the case with Wrangler Light, Fire Cured and Vita Bella and to be honest, I'm having trouble differentiating them. They all seem so similar with only subtle variances in flavour.

Only organic Tob #1 and Perique have significant flavour differences being bold, strong cigar like vapes.

I am going to follow Bronze's advice and try a variety of wattages. I used to be all synthetics PG low res vapor, (apart from Vaperite and a small stock of BWB) and am used to the sweet spot being somewhere in the upper thresholds of the juices, right before they start to taste acrid.

I may have to change my approach with these high quality nets.

I'm getting quite a bit of similarity in my GeJ juices as well. Vita Bella stands out a little as I am getting a noticeable cinnamon, not the candy, but the fresh grated stick kind, from this juice. And I agree perique is the other standout as far as a noticeably different flavor profile. Patriot is a little nutty to me, but in a good way, and dry, oh so dry. Several of the others at first impression are good, smoky, and have similar pre-steeped profiles of flavor/aroma to me. Fire cured, Acadian Gold, and Wild turkey round out the selection. I'm liking these juices already, and I can see their potential complexity and depth coming about with proper steeping. Vita Bella I already know to plan a long steep, but I got a big bottle and definitely plan to sample it along the way.

Of note: I just changed out my coil on my RBA, so I am retrying them now in case the similarity amongst several was more a product of a dirty atty, than similarity of the juice.

 

[Evil Speakers]

Hi, dgmcferrin. Starting at age 13, I smoked an absurd number of Parliament Lights, as well. Those and hand-rolled were just about it for me (with a few brief wanderings, obviously). Since that was your brand, maybe it might be worth mentioning that HHV's Huntsman and GeJ's Patriot are my go-to juices for the times an occasional nasty Parliament craving pops up. When I want to remember my grandfather's pipes, I like GeJ's Vita Bella and Perique. I, too, find their flavors somewhat difficult to capture in a review because largely they're just evocative of fond memories. To selfishly stray a bit from your inquiry, I'm pretty down lately because I've developed a late-acquired pg sensitivity, and a number of GeJ's juices are not available in all or nearly all vg. I'm very grateful for HHV's Purity line, and I'm enjoying a number of those juices, but I will miss that evocative pipe je nais se quoi from those GeJ flavors.

Sorry to hear PG is giving you trouble. I haven't had any PG sensitivity, maybe you just need a break from it? I'm a big fan of Patriot and Vita Bella. Huntsman is on my list to try!