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rdsok

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The real issue here, and the problem, as I see it, is not one of administration of e-cigs as either a tobacco or drug to be regulated. It is one of commerciality in your country. If the heads and hearts of the law makers in the US is in the right place they will actively seek to conduct experiments to determine the trade off between the health benefits and risks associated with e-cigs and make decisions involving its regulation accordingly. In the end, if they do that, they will realise that more people will die from the regulation of the e-cig market than will be saved. If their impetus is money ie, the transfer of the industry from the public and small business, to big tobacco and big pharmacy, then it won't matter what common sense and reason and formal study about e-cigs reveals, or what is in the best interests of the health of its citizens.

I agree whole heartly... I will point out, however, that the USA isn't the only place dealing with this issue either... The same issue is being brought up in a lot of places as another example being with the European countries also dealing with this as much as we are. What I think that is important to do as individuals is to make certain that our voices and concerns are heard so that those others that are more interested in their profit margin or other agendas don't win the battle in this ( or other important ) issue.
 

jefsview

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2 iclear16s. 2 NETs. Each had fresh coils replaced the same day, fresh tanks started simultaneously. One gunked the coils, one hasn't.

The gunky one is HHV Shadow. Go figure. Must be some sweetener in there since it's not as dark as the other NET, GeJ's Organic #1, which is the color of motor oil

Both are extremely tasty for different reasons. Luckily, it's a simple task to dry burn the iclear16s coils.

Just mentioning my observations for no reason other than veering off the politics, and getting back to the thread proper.
 

AnthonyB

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I guess my fear comes from the fact that I saw this happen in the online poker community. Despite masses of people playing online poker, it soon caught the spotlight of the law makers and enforcement agencies in the US and was banned. I know it is an entirely different kettle of fish but most people never thought 'it would happen' to them in such a well established industry like online poker. When 'black Friday' hit nobody expected it and many people who had careers in online poker lost their source of income overnight.

I know this is an entirely emotional, and perhaps irrational response but why the F do all the things we love to do, and all the choices we make get sanctioned, regulated, taxed and incriminated? I thought America was a country built on freedom? Capitalism, sheer extreme wing capitalism is the evil cousin to democracy.

Some really good points here. I can live without nets but it would be rough sailing living without ejuice in its current form entirely.

Part of me wants to believe that the October fda date will come and pass with little change for now. They themselves say they have little scientific knowledge of what ejuice is all about. Without that knowledge it may be tough to unanimously pass regulations that bisect and classify the entire ecig world with the swipe of a pen. Not saying they can't or won't. But I'm not sure they have sufficient data to come to drilled down conclusions about everything.
 

y cherry y

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In fact it is my belief, and I think many others, that the only reason that the subject is being brought up isn't a health related one ( directly ) but one based on the big tobacco companies profit levels are at risk. I think that our representatives and the FDA officials are looking for any reason they can concoct to force a restriction on it only to protect those profits.... they won't admit it, but I do believe that is the driving force for all of this and it has no real serious medical basis to base it on.

The people who staff the FDA are, by and large, folks who believe in public health policy that will protect the population from danger. The sooner we treat public health planners respectfully, and resist the impulse to accuse them of nefarious motives, the better -- for us. These people THINK they are protecting the public, and most of them want to do just that. Like many in the medical profession, some are ignorant of the relationships between nicotine, cigarettes, addiction, e-cigs, pharma and big tobacco, and they need to be taught -- as does the general public. The biggest problem we face is the confusion over what is and isn't dangerous in tobacco. Nicotine is still believed to be the primary evil by lots of people -- many of whom should know better.

If we can't learn to explain ourselves logically, again and again, and make our case without accusing our opponents of conspiracy and evil intent, we're going to be easily relegated to the fringe and disposed of as players in this debate. We need to find friends -- like Bill Godshall, like Michael Siegel -- to help us, and we need to be positive and persuasive, to make it harder to dismiss us. Even if it is true that the nation's primary guardian of food and drug safety is nothing but a shill for the industry that produces the most dangerous legal product ever made, it doesn't help our cause to make that claim.
 
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flowerpots

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The people who staff the FDA are, by and large, folks who believe in public health policy that will protect the population from danger. The sooner we treat public health planners respectfully, and resist the impulse to accuse them of nefarious motives, the better -- for us. These people THINK they are protecting the public, and most of them want to do just that. Like many in the medical profession, some are ignorant of the relationships between nicotine, cigarettes, addiction, e-cigs, pharma and big tobacco, and they need to be taught -- as does the general public. The biggest problem we face is the confusion over what is and isn't dangerous in tobacco. Nicotine is still believed to be the primary evil by lots of people -- many of whom should know better.

If we can't learn to explain ourselves logically, again and again, and make our case without accusing our opponents of conspiracy and evil intent, we're going to be easily relegated to the fringe and disposed as players in this debate. We need to find friends -- like Bill Godshall, like Michael Siegel -- to help us, and we need to be positive and persuasive, to make it harder to dismiss us. Even if it is true that the nation's primary guardian of food and drug safety is nothing but a shill for the industry that produces the most dangerous legal product ever made, it doesn't help our cause to make that claim.

+1 for this post! I try to play devil's advocate a lot on threads here concerning this issue. Some of the motivation is to learn myself, but some is to understand what arguments and stances people in this community are taking, specifically those who are members of and representatives of CASAA. The thing is, we aren't going to win this battle by taking that stance at all, however true it may be. And the general public is by and large manipulated by the media and unaware of what the truth is. Education of others seems to be the best angle any of us can take (with any argument, really).
 

y cherry y

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I guess then we could always argue that carcinogens are everywhere as well and don't always come with a warning. Square one.

We could, but I think that argument has to be made only after we've gotten a lot of more basic fights to go our way. I think we'd better FIRST argue as opponents of all things carcinogenic. I hate to tell you NET lovers, but many juice vendors who don't have the labs or gear or cash to jump through a lot of hoops in the future may not have much (commercial) future anyway.

How many can test their stuff for TSNA's? How many will be capable of doing their tobacco extractions in a separate facility from the one they use for bottling juice? How many have pro labs that will pass muster when inspections begin? How many have actual labs at all? Among all juice makers, there aren't many who will be ready to meet those requirements. Among NET makers, that club is tiny.

And, of course, we don't know if a la carte juice will be allowed at all. We may all be vaping pre-filled cartos next year, or whenever our stashes of juice run out.
 

gthompson

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Full Tilt Poker still owes me money.

I guess my fear comes from the fact that I saw this happen in the online poker community. Despite masses of people playing online poker, it soon caught the spotlight of the law makers and enforcement agencies in the US and was banned. I know it is an entirely different kettle of fish but most people never thought 'it would happen' to them in such a well established industry like online poker. When 'black Friday' hit nobody expected it and many people who had careers in online poker lost their source of income overnight.

I know this is an entirely emotional, and perhaps irrational response but why the F do all the things we love to do, and all the choices we make get sanctioned, regulated, taxed and incriminated? I thought America was a country built on freedom? Capitalism, sheer extreme wing capitalism is the evil cousin to democracy.
 

Mr.Mann

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Can someone explain the flavor profile difference between:

Apple Wild Wood
Apple River Tree Blend
Apple House Blend

(Just got my 15% off/feedback email - woot woot)

P.S. I bet Jerms knows this answer - come back, Jerms, come back :p

Yes.

Apple Wild Wood is an apple plus woody tobacco. Good.

Apple River Tree Blend is an apple plus nutty tobacco. Good.

Apple House Blend is an apple plus super-faint earthy tobacco . Above average, but not what I think of as good. It's a fine tasting liquid, but not in comparison to the others.

All apples are roughly the same tasting--maybe granny smith? I'd choose ARTB if I had to, but it's a toss up between that and AWW.
 

Mr.Mann

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I just saw this post in the Perfect Pipe Tobacco thread where someone commented on my post about Patriot:

I am trying it now and not that impressed? I dont taste any more "tobacco" flavor than other not nie juices?

Now, I don't know what "not nie" means (maybe a typo?), but this post made me take out my Patriot just to give a quick tasteroonie. But, I had just dripped a couple drops of Aroma's Sahara in my atty. I figured, what the hell, drop two on top. Man, this a'int the first time I have noticed this--- > Patriot lends itself VERY well to many other "tobacco" and tobacco flavors. What a beautiful morning! GeJ Patriot and AeJ Sahara? Who'da thunk? I won't marry these two in any batches, but for a quick one-morning drip (akin to a one-night stand) it was great. I should note that this Patriot is the first bottle sent out from the new formulation, so 'tis WELL steeped!
 
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