New Atomizer Prototype

[roadkilldeluxe]

we just need to escape nichrome. some materials engineer needs to sit down and just figure out how to mass produce ceramic resistors that ramp up to speed really quick and are made out of a non-oxidizing compound. It wouldn't wear out! just potentially fracture if its heated up WAY too high (accidentally holding button down in the pocket) but that happens with the ones we have now anyway.

I'm sure we could use something else, but I doubt it will beat Nichrome in terms of cost and speed. That's why I came up with this design.. kinda trying to get the best of both worlds I guess.

I just had an interesting thought... perhaps the tube could be bent 180deg to form a loop with an axial coil running through it... The open ends could be secured with epoxy into a holder of some kind or crimped around the edges of the nichrome...

I think this is exactly what we need: Pyrex Glass Tubing, 4mm OD x 0.8mm Wall Thickness 12" Length (Pack of 5) - $2.95 (Amazon)

What if rather than enclosing the coil in a U shape, we enclosed the whole delivery system and heated it from the outside?

Not sure how this would work,though. Perhaps something like a Pop-pop boat? If the entire U is filled with liquid and the two ends are submerged, it will produce vapor and automatically suck more juice in. How this "steam engine" works


I made a coil using 1.5" of 36ga wire for the bulb. I crimped the ends to copper wire, coiled it nicely, and put it on my 5V power supply. It was beautiful... until the coil failed right next to the crimp.

 

[crazyhorse]

Sounds like a great Idea!!! Sometime the simple things are staring you right in the face.. I wish I had the equipment to try something like that.
Let me know how it goes !!!

I like the idea of dipping a coil in molten pyrex to plate it up with a nice thick layer. I would think that to be quite durable.

 

[jacko]

They are made for battery powered soldering irons, cost about 5.00 The say it takes 10 seconds to reach 900 degree F. So a couple seconds of 3.7vdc and it should be ready for vaping. Once warm it should act like a normal coil... we hope LOL
We will see how they work, I have a craft center here with a kiln so I can manufacture my own ceramic inserts that will fit a 901/801 etc atomizer. We will see...
Dan

Have you checked the resistance of those things? I wonder what kind of power these take compared to the original coils. This really seems feasible from our standpoint.

 

[hoogie76]

I'm sure we could use something else, but I doubt it will beat Nichrome in terms of cost and speed.

Wow, I just found this thread after researching halogen flashlight bulbs for about a week.

Anyway, I've got a possible solution to the coating problem and a method for making the top layer wick properly without leaking past the nichrome wire.

The nichrome will be exposed to fluid but not flooded by it. Airflow would have to be solved but it shouldn't be too hard.

Excuse my bad drawing but here's the concept.
View attachment 4885
The ceramic wick portion could vary in shape and size and the nichrome coil could go up the point or stay just underneath it. You'd only need a very thin layer of the porous ceramic to keep the nichrome from burning the atty filling.

One of these products: High Temperature Adhesives and Epoxies, Ceramics, Insulation, Epoxies and Epoxy could be used to make a ceramic foam. Picture a small rubber mold like a tube with a tip that would stick into the cartridge. Put the nichrome wire into the mold and fill the mold with just enough ceramic foam mixture so it just covers the nichroime wire. Once hardened, fill the rest of the mold with solid ceramic mixture.

When hardened pop it out of the mold and put it into an atty tube. You could even use an atty tube as the mold. Just make a rubber plug that has the shape you want carved into it, put in the nichrome wire in, pour porous mix in, let it harden and then pull the plug out to see your creation, then fill the rest with solid ceramic and your connector. The solder joints or whatever that are used to connect the nichrome could even be embedded into the solid ceramic part leaving a connector or wires sticking out.

Ceramic foam:
I've only read about this but it seems like it'd work here. mix the ceramic mixture with a fine organic powder, say maybe finely ground coffee or maybe small course milled flour or some type of spice or salt. Once the whole thing is hardened then either throw it in the oven to burn off the organic matter or hit it with a blow torch for a little bit. It'll leave all little holes and gaps in the ceramic to let the juice flow to the wire but not enough to flood it.

Whadda you guys think?

 

[Scubabatdan]

This looks great! where can I get some of those tips? This looks exactly like what I was thinking.
1) they should last a long time.
2) they should be relatively maintenance free
3) they should be less costly than the current ones (or not much more expensive-especially if they last longer)
4) they should vape really good

I need to play with some of those. Does RatShack have some of those, I wonder?
Good job Dan

Nope AllSpec : ISO-TIP 7535 | Battery Powered Soldering Iron Tips
The 7535 tip $5.76, I have 5 on the way
Dan

 

[Scubabatdan]

Have you checked the resistance of those things? I wonder what kind of power these take compared to the original coils. This really seems feasible from our standpoint.

Nope, I will when the new ones come in!
Dan

 

[Scubabatdan]

Wow, I just found this thread after researching halogen flashlight bulbs for about a week.

Anyway, I've got a possible solution to the coating problem and a method for making the top layer wick properly without leaking past the nichrome wire.

The nichrome will be exposed to fluid but not flooded by it. Airflow would have to be solved but it shouldn't be too hard.

Excuse my bad drawing but here's the concept.
View attachment 4885
The ceramic wick portion could vary in shape and size and the nichrome coil could go up the point or stay just underneath it. You'd only need a very thin layer of the porous ceramic to keep the nichrome from burning the atty filling.

One of these products: High Temperature Adhesives and Epoxies, Ceramics, Insulation, Epoxies and Epoxy could be used to make a ceramic foam. Picture a small rubber mold like a tube with a tip that would stick into the cartridge. Put the nichrome wire into the mold and fill the mold with just enough ceramic foam mixture so it just covers the nichroime wire. Once hardened, fill the rest of the mold with solid ceramic mixture.

When hardened pop it out of the mold and put it into an atty tube. You could even use an atty tube as the mold. Just make a rubber plug that has the shape you want carved into it, put in the nichrome wire in, pour porous mix in, let it harden and then pull the plug out to see your creation, then fill the rest with solid ceramic and your connector. The solder joints or whatever that are used to connect the nichrome could even be embedded into the solid ceramic part leaving a connector or wires sticking out.

Ceramic foam:
I've only read about this but it seems like it'd work here. mix the ceramic mixture with a fine organic powder, say maybe finely ground coffee or maybe small course milled flour or some type of spice or salt. Once the whole thing is hardened then either throw it in the oven to burn off the organic matter or hit it with a blow torch for a little bit. It'll leave all little holes and gaps in the ceramic to let the juice flow to the wire but not enough to flood it.

Whadda you guys think?

Interesting, wax beads would work better in the burn off process. If you can get them that small, even flaked wax would work to create a honey comb effect.
Dan

 

[roadkilldeluxe]

ceramic atty

I like the way you think. This glass thing is proving to be quite difficult, it's great to have some other options (i.e., high temp ceramic castables). I'm interested in making cartomizers, I wonder if this method would allow us to do that as well.

 

[hoogie76]

Interesting, wax beads would work better in the burn off process. If you can get them that small, even flaked wax would work to create a honey comb effect.
Dan

Great idea! Hopefully the curing process of the ceramic doesn't generate too much heat and melt the wax before it can do it's job.

 

[hoogie76]

Interesting, wax beads would work better in the burn off process. If you can get them that small, even flaked wax would work to create a honey comb effect.
Dan

I would think that anything that you could form a mold for, the process should work about the same. In theory of course

 

[Jason365]

Check these out
ceramic heating element
Also the link dan has to the iron tips has a rca option in some of the other tips on that page making connection to a battery built in. I just wonder how long they take to heat up and if they will get hot enough.

Jason

 

[callousparade]

Check these out
ceramic heating element
Also the link dan has to the iron tips has a rca option in some of the other tips on that page making connection to a battery built in. I just wonder how long they take to heat up and if they will get hot enough.

Jason

annnnnnd there we go, i wonder if i'm techy enough to actually try to DIY an atty...

 

[jacko]

Check these out
ceramic heating element
Also the link dan has to the iron tips has a rca option in some of the other tips on that page making connection to a battery built in.
Jason

It looks like the ones with the RCA were not ISO tips.... they don't have the coil? those may be a different type that need a hot surface and transfer the heat... I think.
but the RCA is a nice touch.

 

[Bubo]

Can someone fill me in on the ceramic?

I understand the wicking part, (correct me if I am wrong) it's to draw fluid from the cart wadding towards the coil where it is heated, and protect the coil.... Right?

Is there a reason for the 'solid ceramic'? Other than to support the Nichrome and ceramic wick? (Just trying to figure it all out in my head)

I have also heard references to a 'ceramic pot' - this would be just a focal point to funnel fluid into where the coil vaporizes the fluid?

Just making sure I know what goes where and why!

 

[Scottes]

The nichrome will be exposed to fluid but not flooded by it. Airflow would have to be solved but it shouldn't be too hard.

Wouldn't it be better to avoid contact between the wire and liquid? Encapsulating the wire inside glass/something would mean no oxidation of the wire or (more importantly?) the solder points.


From what little I know, the nichrome wire is the most delicate part of the atomizer, and the most likely to fail. Followed closely by the solder points connecting the nichrome wire to the power source.

Why expose the wire to liquid? What do you gain by doing this? If you wanted to extend the life of the atomizer wouldn't it be better to eliminate contact between the liquid and the wire?

 

[hoogie76]

Can someone fill me in on the ceramic?

I understand the wicking part, (correct me if I am wrong) it's to draw fluid from the cart wadding towards the coil where it is heated, and protect the coil.... Right?

Is there a reason for the 'solid ceramic'? Other than to support the Nichrome and ceramic wick? (Just trying to figure it all out in my head)

I have also heard references to a 'ceramic pot' - this would be just a focal point to funnel fluid into where the coil vaporizes the fluid?

Just making sure I know what goes where and why!

In my picture, the solid ceramic parts sits underneath the wicking part that encloses the nichrome wire and does not allow liquid to go down through the bottom of atomizer. Not sure it's the correct solution, just an concept.

If I'm correct with what you mean, the ceramic pot is what is currently utilized in some atomizers, it's a small ceramic assembly with a resevoir on top. It not only holds the nichrome wire in place but has an indent at the top where liquid is drawn to and the the nichrome wire sits in a puddle of liquid kind of. There are other components at play here also like the fiber that the wire is coiled around that also helps to draw liquid toward the wire and keeps the whole mess from getting flooded.

 

[hoogie76]

Wouldn't it be better to avoid contact between the wire and liquid? Encapsulating the wire inside glass/something would mean no oxidation of the wire or (more importantly?) the solder points.


From what little I know, the nichrome wire is the most delicate part of the atomizer, and the most likely to fail. Followed closely by the solder points connecting the nichrome wire to the power source.

Why expose the wire to liquid? What do you gain by doing this? If you wanted to extend the life of the atomizer wouldn't it be better to eliminate contact between the liquid and the wire?

Very true, the biggest part that might come into play then is heat transfer speed. Whatever is covering the wire has to be able to transfer the heat fast enough to be able to get to the vapor point of the liquid without the user having to draw or press the button for 3 seconds before it starts to vape. Direct contact of the wire is the fastest way now. There are some ceramic compunds that are made to transfer heat instantly.

As buyers of atomizers we look at them as expensive but it's only by the time they get to us. They're probably being made for under a buck at the factory even considering that they contain wire foam or tape, ceramic cup and ring, nichrome wire, small metal bridge, atomizer connector, the tube itself and a few other bits. Ultimately not an expensive part to make but expensive to buy. An atomizer that never fails would be a profit killer for the manufacturers.

 

[crazyhorse]

How good is heat transfer in pyrex glass? Is there a scale of heat transfer ability that puts something like diamond at 10 and plastic at 1?

 

[jacko]

How good is heat transfer in pyrex glass? Is there a scale of heat transfer ability that puts something like diamond at 10 and plastic at 1?

Good question. I am trying to find something on it.... surely there is such info. That makes me think that the reason the ISO soldering tips make sense is the fact that they are using metal to encase the coil... Metal makes a great conductor of heat.

 

[roadkilldeluxe]

How good is heat transfer in pyrex glass? Is there a scale of heat transfer ability that puts something like diamond at 10 and plastic at 1?

I think what you're looking for is: Thermal Conductivity
Air 0.025
Water 0.6
Thermal Grease 0.7-3
Glass 1.1
Soil 1.5
Concrete, stone 1.7
Stainless Steel 12.11 ~ 45.0
Diamond 900 - 2320

Also important, however, is specific heat capacity, which is a measure of how much energy it takes to raise the temperature of an object.

Conductivity is "how well" an object conducts heat, and specific heat is "how easy" it is to heat an object.

Good question. I am trying to find something on it.... surely there is such info. That makes me think that the reason the ISO soldering tips make sense is the fact that they are using metal to encase the coil... Metal makes a great conductor of heat.

True, but one of the original concerns with conventional attys is the inhalation of vapor from various metals that could be dangerous. We just have to make sure we know what all the components are made of (with any design we try) and if they are safe to use...