New Coil Builders

[AngeNZ]

Steam engine is confusing me again. Designing "twisted pair" coils with 26 ga Kanthal (3mm, 7 winds) and everything else looks good except suggested mod wattage and "Heat capacity" are through the roof! Is it just too much mass?
For dual coils (0.5ohm for both) It's showing around 150 watts and 150 mJ/K heat capacity (is that what's called "ramp up time"?) Heat flux seems OK at 200. I'm really a noobie with using SE. My mod is only 60 watts... can I even use this setup?

Ignore the watt setting - just think about how much heat that dual core build will generate. The amount of mass (wire) in a twisted dual coil build is high.

I stuck your coils into Vape Tool Pro:

The heating surface is huge @ 692.11mm sq.

Dual coil: 7 wrap 3mm id 26ga kanthal results in:

Much lower heating surface. I'd try this build - see how it vapes and then try the twisted dual coils.

 

[vaper1960]

AngeNZ, thanks. I was even considering not completely twisting the wire so tight... less wire but still fair amount of surface area. Hey, I have 50 ft to play with... only $7 with free shipping (Temco) Want to get 24 ga next but can't decide on kanthal or stainless steel. BTW, I found images on Pinterest... completely blew my mind! Sparked a fire in my

 

[Mordacai]

@vaper1960, twisted wire is better made from higher gauges of wire. Around 32 AWG and above looks a good range.

Just dug round the net a little and found this and thought that you may find it very useful, please save it at one side if you can.

And with the Heat Capacity, try simple coils first and take notice of the vape. If it's too hot, try making and using a lower Heat Capacity setup, you'll only need to increase if it's too cool.

Mainly it's just experiment and take notes, and to make things more interesting each and every RBA likes to be built differently.

 

[vaper1960]

And with the Heat Capacity, try simple coils first and take notice of the vape. If it's too hot, try making and using a lower Heat Capacity setup, you'll only need to increase if it's too cool.

I get it now... not what I want! Don't like hot vape. Thanks for explaining that (no wonder steam engine showed a red bar as high as it goes) Might just get some thin clapton wire. You guys are right... I need to slow down and walk before I run.

 

[vaper1960]

Any opinions on kanthal vs SS (for power mode, not TC)?

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

Any opinions on kanthal vs SS (for power mode, not TC)?

Ni80 is better but that's only my personal taste.
Kanthal and SS both work in wattage mode so take your pick

 

[vaper1960]

Ni80 is better but that's only my personal taste.

My friend says the same thing.
This looks interesting... thin clapton wire:
Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton Wire

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

My friend says the same thing.
This looks interesting... thin clapton wire:
Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton Wire

That's exactly what I'm using at the moment, fantastic flavour!
You would need about 8-9 wraps each 3mm coil to reach 0.5 ohms.
I would still recommend using some 26ga kanthal as well if you have the wire

 

[vaper1960]

Just want to mention that although I might do some 2.5 mm coils for the RTAs, I'm concerned that the wick won't be thick enough to prevent leaking.

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

Just want to mention that although I might do some 2.5 mm coils for the RTAs, I'm concerned that the wick won't be thick enough to prevent leaking.

2.5mm coils are not a problem at all with wicking, I mainly use 2.5mm in my attys.
You may just need to give the ends of cotton a bit of a floof once pulled through the coil

 

[Mordacai]

@vaper1960, one thing that Kanthal has going for it is it does have the highest resistance.

Titanium though is weird though besides it only being able to be used in TC, it has a low resistance and low heat capacity.

And also Flat Wire is well worth a play with. Best to avoid the 0.1mm thick Ribbon Wire though, it's interesting and not in a fun way to work with.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Resistance becomes an arbitrary number when it comes to regulated mods. 50 watts into 0.5 ohm is the same 50 watts into 1 ohm. The device adjusts voltage accordingly to meet your 50 watt objective and with that the current draw also changes – it becomes a balancing scale.

Kanthal makes for a great heating coil. Whether it is better or not than other metals is entirely up to the individual using it.

Titanium is inherently very low in resistance. But as long as the coil resistance falls within the devices capabilities it should not be a factor. Titanium has a high Specific Heat Capacity, higher than Kanthal, Ni80, SS316 and Nickel. But its extremely low mass counteracts that making it very compatible metal for TC vaping.

A Kanthal coil of 24 awg 5 wraps around a 3mm ID yields 0.482 ohms, 100mg in mass, with a Specific Heat Capacity of 460 J/(kg-K). Note the Specific Heat Capacity (not Heat Capacity in Steam) of a metal does not change, its mass influences the outcome. A Titanium coil of the same dimensions yields 0.156 ohms and a mass of 62mg with a Specific Heat Capacity of 544 J/(kg-K). If we were to apply 25 watts to the Kanthal coil, the Titanium would only require 18 watts to heat to the same temperature within the same duration due to its much lower mass. Steam Engine does not provide calculations for this, and its Heat Capacity figures is just a value used for comparisons. Its Heat Flux also does not adjust to accommodate any differences. The Heat Flux is a calculation based on surface area, and given the above example are identical in dimensions, the Heat Flux from Steam will also be identical which is incorrect for this example.

As for the gauge used with twisted coils – like everything there will come a point of diminishing returns, we are challenged at finding what those limits are. A pair of 26awg twisted coils may not be well suited for a device that is limited to 60 watts, but they could make for a great setup with a device that allows higher wattage. It’s all very subjective.

 

[DeloresRose]

@AngeNZ you're the best!

26ga Ni80, 3mm, .67 ohms. View attachment 848525
View attachment 848527 View attachment 848529
Man, nothing like a close-up photo to see where I'm at with wrapping.

Looks better than my round wire coils any day!

 

[AngeNZ]

I get it now... not what I want! Don't like hot vape. Thanks for explaining that (no wonder steam engine showed a red bar as high as it goes) Might just get some thin clapton wire. You guys are right... I need to slow down and walk before I run.

Yep, if you don't like a hot vape, you want to use as less mass as possible. Which is either thinner wire or less wraps or a smaller coil id.

Here's some examples, all single coil:

This is 26ga Kanthal, 2.5mm id, 5 wrap coil:

26ga Kanthal 3mm id, 6 wraps:

And finally Kanthal 26ga twisted 3mm 6 wrap coil:

The boys can explain the heat capacity better than me - but the lower the mass of your coil, the lower the heat capacity, and the cooler the vape will be.

26ga Kanthal, 2.5mm id, 5 wrap coil:
Heat capacity is 22.40mj/k - relatively cool, indicated by steam recommending 14w for this build

26ga Kanthal 3mm id, 6 wraps coil:
Heat capacity is 29.87mj/k - slightly warmer than the above coil, steam is suggesting 18w

Kanthal 26ga twisted 3mm 6 wrap coil:
Heat capacity is 119.49mj/k - which would put it in the warm to hot bracket. Steam recommends 72w for this single coil build.

 

[vaper1960]

Thanks everyone... getting the idea now. Here's an update (copied and pasted from a message I sent to a friend here on ECF):
"I got my wire (26 ga kanthal) been making coils. Two spaced coils for the Bellus (too easy... spaced coils are a breeze) Tried to make a contact wind for the Silverplay... (disaster) so I made my own coil winding jig... works great. After I try the coil in the Silverplay, going to throw the clapton in (from the quad flex kit) After I build both those (cotton for now) will try the rayon. Also making a couple coils for the RDTA (quad flex) Not sure if twisted 26 ga is overkill, but wire is cheap so trying everything I need stronger reading glasses! I found a deal on some thinner clapton wire that would be perfect."
Will try these out tomorrow!

 

[vaper1960]

I found this wire:
Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton Wire
Didn't know they made clapton wire so thin.

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

Thanks everyone... getting the idea now. Here's an update (copied and pasted from a message I sent to a friend here on ECF):
"I got my wire (26 ga kanthal) been making coils. Two spaced coils for the Bellus (too easy... spaced coils are a breeze) Tried to make a contact wind for the Silverplay... (disaster) so I made my own coil winding jig... works great. After I try the coil in the Silverplay, going to throw the clapton in (from the quad flex kit) After I build both those (cotton for now) will try the rayon. Also making a couple coils for the RDTA (quad flex) Not sure if twisted 26 ga is overkill, but wire is cheap so trying everything I need stronger reading glasses! I found a deal on some thinner clapton wire that would be perfect."
Will try these out tomorrow!

Have fun with your Bellus, very small deck on those and don't forget you have the plastic stopper thing with it so you can use it as a single coil as well as a dual.
I bought a couple from Fasttech because they were cheap and I liked the airflow options

It's a very good idea to try as much as possible and gain the knowledge, just remember when you're 'trying everything' to Keep It Regulated
Happy Winding

 

[Daniel Forsyth]

I found this wire:
Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton Wire
Didn't know they made clapton wire so thin.

That's the Clapton wire that doesn't take a couple minutes to heat up, the good stuff MTL Clapton

 

[vaper1960]

Daniel, did you have issues with the Bellus leaking out the airholes? Any tips on wicking? I made two coils 26 ga kanthal 3mm 7 winds spaced.
That fine clapton wire is very interesting for sure.
I forgot to mention, when making the contact winds coil for the silverplay (very excited to try it) I forgot to count winds LOL Tried to look with magnifying glass and not sure... maybe 8 (was planning more like 6-7 but going to give it a try anyway... total MTL with smaller airflow insert) Switching to larger airflow insert for the clapton (it's a 3mm around 5-6 winds) A friend is sending me some interesting wire samples to try... Ni80 and SS.

 

[vaper1960]

Thanks Ange for the thread!