New design idea for atomisers

[MrCloudMaker]

So I am sitting next to an infrared quarts heater that is cooking my left whilst I puff on my PV.
Trying to think of different ways to vaporise e liquid.

My first thought process was, what about a hot plate, I've seen hair straighteners turn all products into vapour. Then I thought who would want to wait half a minute for it to warm up then wait 5 minutes to cool down before putting it into their pocket again.

Then I thought what about various other elements such as the ones in kettles but this too wouldn't be desirable.

What about a lighter with a pipe attached using a slow release drip method, but this would mean a steampunk like device that would be horrible to carry and very clumsy.

Starring at the glowing red bars of quartz next to me I then thought ahhh infrared.

It heats up instantly cools down instantly! Perfect as a replacement to a coil,

But what about the wick it would be impossible to heat the wick without igniting it!

This lead me back to my hot plate idea.

What if you had a set up that was a small quarts infrared heating element with a tight nit alluminum mesh that uses osmosis to draw the liquid in so it is always saturated but not dripping and then no longer need a material wick.

What are your thoughts? Anyone wanna try to create this hardware.

Also if it happens that you end up making millions from this idea, don't forget who gave it to you

 

[Izan]

...

What if you had a set up that was a small quarts infrared heating element with a tight nit alluminum mesh that uses osmosis to draw the liquid in so it is always saturated but not dripping and then no longer need a material wick.

What are your thoughts? Anyone wanna try to create this hardware.

...

Hi and welcome,

"Infra-red" is electro-magnetic radiant energy generally encompassing the range of wavelengths from about 800 nm (near IR) to about 100 micro-meters (far IR). Infra-red radiation includes emissions from single molecules or atoms, as a consequence of quantum mechanical transitions between energy states of those atoms or molecules. It also includes emission of a continuum spectrum of EM radiant energy from large assemblages of atoms or molecules that have a Temperature higher than zero kelvins; that radiation being entirely due to, and characterized by the Temperature of the material, and unrelated to any quantized energy levels that are characteristic of the emitting material. The origin of the radiation is the acceleration of electric charge in the atoms or molecules of the material, while they undergo distortion as a result of being in collisions with each other; those collisions being characteristic of the Temperature of the material.

"Heat energy" on the other hand, is purely mechanical energy of translation or vibration, rotation etc, of the atoms or molecules themselves, and is unrelated to electric charge or properties of electros or atomic states. Heat energy can be transported through physical materials, as a consequence of the collisions between atoms or molecules and their neighbors. (conduction) It can also be transported, by physical bulk transport of the (heated) medium itself (convection).

"Heat energy" is NOT electromagnetic radiation."

Wicking works via capillary action, not osmosis.

Cheers
I

 

[MrCloudMaker]

User 26165 on physics exchange would agree with your explanation of infra red

However as it heat by vibrating molecules that would be a good thing for atomisation process.

As vg is not technically a vapour at all, as it isn't a gas it is sub micron particles of liquid matter suspended in air creating an aerosol. (Due to its high boiling point) for veg based juiced it wouldn't work

However as pg is heated into a gas to produce the vape, it is theoretically possibly heating using any heating method available that hit over 180C to create the vapour gas.

Or using propanediol a sugar based base liquid previously not used as the wick life would greatly suffer. Or another base liquid not thought of yet. The only reason pg and veg are used is because these were components of
Theatrical smoke generating machines that have Hon Lik the idea for e cigs. Maybe there is something else altogether we can use as an eliquid that will vapourise at much lower temperatures or voltage.

I know currently that wicks use capillary action but that is what I wanted to see if it was possible to try it another way. Especially as we already know pg is hyperscopic so is always looking for the molecule to bind with I was thinking of
a better system altogether, that could be used to manipulate the juice towards a longer lasting heating element.

A complete overhaul on exsisting designs not an adaptation of what already exists. Doing that only lands you with vista.

 

[Izan]

Ahhh... Bach!!

only two questions.
1. how many watts is the heater next to you?
2. how hot is the element producing the IR emissions?

If either are below 1000, I would be surprised.

Build a fire, boil water to make steam, use the steam to drive a turbine to produce electricity to power an electric heater to stay warm.
Or you can just sit by the fire.

Have fun
I

 

[Shirtbloke]

If you're looking for a different way to vapourise eliquid here's one idea I had that doesn't use heat at all. If you can make a vacuum/partial vacuum above a pool of liquid it'll turn into vapour without the application of heat. Sounded great when I thought of it, till I realised that for it to work as a vape you would need a tank approximately the volume of your lungs to get anything satisfying from it, plus a huge air pump to create the vacuum. Please pick holes in the idea.

 

[MrCloudMaker]

Shirt bloke not crazy at all I like alternate thinking a vaccum would work however only issue is when you go to inhale the vapour the container would want to stabilise its pressure. In doing so it would suck the air from your lungs into back into the container making it hard to breathe in the vapour. It would likely just end up reforming as a liquid as soon as it leaves. Plus you would need to decrompress the chamber each time would be very time consuming and need other machinery too.

However the exact opposite to your idea and pressurising the liquid could create a spray can version of vape, but then the only issue is the gas used to pressurise it, butane is the norm but i don't fancy breathing that in.

 

[Izan]

Shirt bloke not crazy at all I like alternate thinking a vaccum would work however only issue is when you go to inhale the vapour the container would want to stabilise its pressure. In doing so it would suck the air from your lungs into back into the container making it hard to breathe in the vapour. It would likely just end up reforming as a liquid as soon as it leaves. Plus you would need to decrompress the chamber each time would be very time consuming and need other machinery too.

However the exact opposite to your idea and pressurising the liquid could create a spray can version of vape, but then the only issue is the gas used to pressurise it, butane is the norm but i don't fancy breathing that in.

Sub in HFA 134a for butane.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Yes I'd imagined some automatic valve system that would open to atmosphere as you sucked on the mouthpiece, so air pressure rushing into the tank would push the vapour into your mouth.

 

[MrCloudMaker]

Izan that would work asthma pump style I like it but it already increases blood pressure and is seen as a medical product imagine the MHRA (uk) and FDA (us) stance on that would be too much red tape to begin with.


Crazyshirt a good idea in principle but would need to be a filter than was less than 4.5 microns or vape would escape. Producing a filter like that would be nearly impossible an would be mega expensive about €40 each and you would be replacing them every tank or so. But in theory it is possible

 

[mongo74]

How about a thermoelectric heater/cooler like they use to cool cpu's?

You can use the cooling side to keep the power supply/battery cool while using the hot side to heat a chamber and vaporize the liquid. Maybe even incorporate a tiny ducted fan to circulate air into the chamber for easy vapor dispersal. Rayon wick it to another chamber holding e-lquid, or use a mechansim (like a pump sprayer made from a modified squonker or one that uses co2 or some other inert gas like nitrogen) that atomizes the e-liquid into the chamber.

 

[SteveS45]

And there are so many threads on how to cut down on the amount of e-Liquids being used on a daily basis.................

 

[SinQuaNon]

interesting stuff guys, love the design thinking!

 

[David Wolf]

So I am sitting next to an infrared quarts heater that is cooking my left whilst I puff on my PV.
Trying to think of different ways to vaporise e liquid.

My first thought process was, what about a hot plate, I've seen hair straighteners turn all products into vapour. Then I thought who would want to wait half a minute for it to warm up then wait 5 minutes to cool down before putting it into their pocket again.

Then I thought what about various other elements such as the ones in kettles but this too wouldn't be desirable.

What about a lighter with a pipe attached using a slow release drip method, but this would mean a steampunk like device that would be horrible to carry and very clumsy.

Starring at the glowing red bars of quartz next to me I then thought ahhh infrared.

It heats up instantly cools down instantly! Perfect as a replacement to a coil,

But what about the wick it would be impossible to heat the wick without igniting it!

This lead me back to my hot plate idea.

What if you had a set up that was a small quarts infrared heating element with a tight nit alluminum mesh that uses osmosis to draw the liquid in so it is always saturated but not dripping and then no longer need a material wick.

What are your thoughts? Anyone wanna try to create this hardware.

Also if it happens that you end up making millions from this idea, don't forget who gave it to you

Well you're absolutely right that infrared could be used to vaporize eliquid, infrared heating is used in many industrial processes for efficient heating. The challenge for using that technology in a mod would be could you make such a heater small enough, with the required power supply and electronics and still be able to deliver enough heat efficiently. And how expensive would it be!

 

[Steamix]

Two years back, some fellas tried a hybrid approach. Ultrasound combined with minimal heat. Lotsa chest thumping and drumming up advance orders. AFAIK nothing came of it.
Might be doable - BUT : is that contraption then still portable or does it have sufficient power to keep you in vape for a whole day?

Thing is that none of us vapers are too inclined lugging around a backpack with hardware.

Anything that fits a purse or a shirtpocket without ripping the seams might be ok. If it get bulkier than that; I'M not so sure if there would be sufficient number of buyers to keep it on the market....

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

Induction mod with magnetic atomizers instead of 510. It could open up the possibility of fully enveloped washable heat plates...

 

[Izan]

Induction mod with magnetic atomizers instead of 510. It could open up the possibility of fully enveloped washable heat plates...

yep... post from June 2014.
Evoke Induction Vaporizer on Indiegogo, have you seen this?

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

yep... post from June 2014.
Evoke Induction Vaporizer on Indiegogo, have you seen this?

Combined with newer technology you could go in a completely different direction they went.

We've come a long way in the last 2 years.

 

[Shirtbloke]

magnetic atomizers instead of 510

The Eleaf Istick Basic has one of those.

 

[classwife]

Moved this to General Vaping Discussion from Atomizers and Cartridges

 

[Eskie]

Sure, induction heating is a well established technology. You can get it for your range top. You just need to use a magnetic metal for the heat transfer (flat bottom pots and pans work best). Then there's this old standby which is quite inexpensive to obtain. It even offers VW/VV

Perfect for dripping!