I wholeheartedly agree. But it does feel good to win a small battle in the war.
DON'T BE COMPLACENT VAPERS!!
Keep an eye on your states too.
New FDA policy conflicts with itself and vaping
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I wholeheartedly agree. But it does feel good to win a small battle in the war.
DON'T BE COMPLACENT VAPERS!!
Keep an eye on your states too.
Oh yeah, the crap is out there, I saw it over the weekend. I traveled to Sacramento to visit my younger daughter for a few days. On the way out of town I noticed two billboards that were sponsored by a local medical group. Apparently they held a contest of some kind and the winners' submissions were put up in billboard form. One was a marionette portraying smoking as holding the strings of addiction. The other was this:
I'm all for trying to keep nicotine away from kids. In fact I kept nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol away from my kids when they were growing up. I also don't recommend vaping to people who aren't already smoking. But I do get sick of the constant attempt here in California to equate smoking with vaping. It does more harm than good. This billboard also had their motto of "Don't buy the lie!" plastered all around it.
Fine by me. Your ball park you play in it.And this isn't the place to get into any of that.......I will just say....This isn't the first time this same debate has happened after an election.....'nough said on the subject.
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less nic in ciggies?? that would make smokers more apt to buy more ciggies... for those who remember running out of a full strength ciggie and having to smoke a "lite" ciggie...
like sucking on a straw...
like sucking on a straw...
As we just saw, even those deeming regs aren't written in stone either. Which I'm good with. And unlike income tax, which invariably goes up for the vast majority of taxpayers, this would be a bit like a reduction on everyone's taxes for a change.
I'm not saying we should all sit back and put our feet up because the war is over, but when you win a battle, you might as well appreciate it and take a pause to see where you need to fight next. And just like war, you pick your battles accordingly to keep moving forward, not bogging down in distractions that will not advance your position.
less nic in ciggies?? that would make smokers more apt to buy more ciggies... for those who remember running out of a full strength ciggie and having to smoke a "lite" ciggie...
like sucking on a straw...
There was this in Gottliebs's speech
"I can tell you that FDA and others have done some preliminary analysis of the potential public health impacts if cigarettes could no longer create or sustain addiction."
I'd like to see that data, which, if accurate supports the proposal. Would it do so for all smokers? Probably not, but if it can somehow help a percentage of smokers, and help avoid future addicted smokers, it's not an unreasonable approach.
"In a world where there is no mandated reduction in the levels of nicotine in noncombustible products, our compliance policies should account for changes that will move addicted smokers down that continuum of risk to these less harmful products."
As vaping would continue to provide higher levels of nic v. these new low nic cigarettes, is a possibility. Again, maybe some smokers will take advantage and shift, but at least they'll have the option.
And let's remember not everyone who tries vaping stops smoking, so other forms of treatment are still needed, and despite all that, some will continue no matter what anyone says
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I'm agreed that if we have to have regulation, it should start with tobacco, AND I also agree that we still haven't reached that magic Ball drop NY eve moment. That day is far away, still and regardless of the ultimate outcome we should still advocate, AND it's okay to celebrate for a moment, for at least getting more of a Mary Poppins than you know, some witch of a nanny. Maybe. As of yet.
Anna
Anna
Something I think would work faster and better than messing with cigarettes and throwing smokers under the bus...STOP all the lies and half truths and let the people know what most of us already know. VAPING SAVES LIVES.
If the government and not-for-profits stopped lying and spouting half-truths, we would have blessed silence.
Yes, vaping saves lives. But not all smokers will quit with vaping alone. Here we're a self selected population for whom vaping was successful. We've seen some folks who come through here who never get vaping to work for them.
The most significant finding is Gottieb coming out and saying it's not the nicotine that kills, it's all the other stuff in combustible tobacco that does. That right there is a huge step forward for not demonizing nicotine, but the products of burning tobacco. That's a big hole in anti-vape crowd.
Yes, in an ideal world we'd get blessed silence, but in the real world Gottleib's speech was kind of a breath of fresh air. E-cigs have already been demonized, but they can be undemonized with the right approach. IDK if Gottleib has the entirely right approach, but it is sure looking more favorable *to me*. I don't think current smokers should have to suffer either, but if they take a look at vaping instead/as well as smoking, that's a move in the right direction, and the only way to make any sort of shift in that direction is to examine tobacco and what can make it less appealing. That's what public health is About, not politics though of course all actions all over the world take place in a political climate. The freedoms we have now are what we have, and what we choose to do with them is of our own making, at this point and moving forward.
I suppose, leaning toward *optimism* hey look, vaping became enough of a self-sustaining industry here to catch the political eye. So, that does mean that at least, vaping is gaining traction, and that is what we need to focus on and hopefully build on.
Anna
I suppose, leaning toward *optimism* hey look, vaping became enough of a self-sustaining industry here to catch the political eye. So, that does mean that at least, vaping is gaining traction, and that is what we need to focus on and hopefully build on.
Anna
Just a Reminder when it comes to talk about Lowering Nicotine in Cigarettes.
The FSTCA Grandfathered just about EVERY Cigarette ever sold in the USA.
So it is Good to hear a FDA Commissionaire talk about New Directions in the Combustible Cigarette market. But it isn't like we might see a Substantial Shift any time soon.
The FSTCA Grandfathered just about EVERY Cigarette ever sold in the USA.
So it is Good to hear a FDA Commissionaire talk about New Directions in the Combustible Cigarette market. But it isn't like we might see a Substantial Shift any time soon.
My hubby is a perfect example of one that hasn't totally made the switch.
Bottom line....he hasn't reached the point yet to where he is tired of smoking. He went 5 days just last week smoke free but he chose to go back to his few smokes a day.
I guess I want to live in a world where no one is forced to tow the line. I was a smoker for over 45 years. I can imagine how upset I would have been if the government had decided to mess with my choice. I personally don't think lowering the nicotine in cigarettes will not accomplish anything because I personally don't think it is the nicotine alone that keeps folks smoking.
I am pleased the he is not demonizing nicotine. That is a giant step forward but until all the lies that have demonized vaping are counteracted there will be millions of smokers out there still afraid to try vaping. 'specially the lies that claim vaping is worse than smoking
Anything demonized can be rehabilitated. Look at prohibition. I imagine we might see some of that action, but one thing the FDA does NOT do is move Swiftly, usually. Smokers should be listening to information presented and making decisions as well, and hopefully they (as a subgroup of nicotine users, even if it's tobacco) will make their thoughts known as well. I don't want to ignore them as a group, but I have to stick up for what I *believe* to be less harmful, and honestly if I could transition to vaping, anyone *can* if they so desire. It's not easy, but it's entirely DOABLE, unlike most other NRT I have tried....
I feel that just as cigarette advertising should be limited, anti-smoking propaganda and vapeganda should be, also. That billboard would appeal to any adolescent, it's all "Oooh, scary." What really needs to happen is that we need billboards of elderly folks vaping in their daily life, going, "This helps me so much!" and then emptying the kitty litter. That should do the trick.
Anna
I feel that just as cigarette advertising should be limited, anti-smoking propaganda and vapeganda should be, also. That billboard would appeal to any adolescent, it's all "Oooh, scary." What really needs to happen is that we need billboards of elderly folks vaping in their daily life, going, "This helps me so much!" and then emptying the kitty litter. That should do the trick.
Anna
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but all I have heard/seen/read about reducing nicotine levels in "combustible tobacco products" is that it is a "plan" or "being considered"......in reality, no more then an idea that some are sharing. That is also a pretty good way to "test the waters" for support of nicotine reduction. This "idea" will be in flux and with positive feedback, easily adjusted or expanded. "Testing the waters" creates ripples. It is very easy to remove the word "combustible" leaving "tobacco products."
Even if this "plan" is mandated as is, only to "combustible tobacco products", it will be implemented over a very long period of time, probably in steps. During that time, anything can happen.
Even if this "plan" is mandated as is, only to "combustible tobacco products", it will be implemented over a very long period of time, probably in steps. During that time, anything can happen.
A prohibition, by any other name, is still a prohibition. It's still just a bunch of people who believe that they have the moral high ground, attempting to inflict their will upon others...just Sayin'.
Maybe this new direction will make somebody realize what a bad piece of legislation the family smoking prevention act is, and get it kicked back for a rewrite.
The difference is that "bunch of people" is now our elected officials that "we, the people" have bestowed the power to actually "inflict their will" upon us all.
I am sorry to be so blunt but that is one road I refuse to go down. It's like the folks that quit cold turkey. In their mind if they could do it that way we should be able to do it too. We found vaping and it worked for us but I would never tell someone "It worked for me, it should work for you too".
Personally I want to find a way to stick up for both smokers and vapers. There are some die hard smokers that will NEVER give up their smokes and that should be their choice. I fight for vaping so it will be there for those that might start smoking. I truly do believe that those that chose vaping over smoking will not get hooked on vaping the way we got hooked on smoking and will be able to put it behind them without all we had to go through to just quit.
The ANTZ and those that quit by going cold turkey "believe" all of it is harmful and if they can quit or never start in the first place we should be able to do so too.
One "can" do most anything if the desire to do so is there. Forcing the desire never works. In most cases it will just cause most adults to just dig in their heals even harder.
I have been around long enough to remember when we lived with the motto...Live and let live......now it seems to be ....do it my way or you are doing it wrong.
I wish a hundred likes on that post!I am sorry to be so blunt but that is one road I refuse to go down. It's like the folks that quit cold turkey. In their mind if they could do it that way we should be able to do it too. We found vaping and it worked for us but I would never tell someone "It worked for me, it should work for you too".
Personally I want to find a way to stick up for both smokers and vapers. There are some die hard smokers that will NEVER give up their smokes and that should be their choice. I fight for vaping so it will be there for those that might start smoking. I truly do believe that those that chose vaping over smoking will not get hooked on vaping the way we got hooked on smoking and will be able to put it behind them without all we had to go through to just quit.
The ANTZ and those that quit by going cold turkey "believe" all of it is harmful and if they can quit or never start in the first place we should be able to do so too.
One "can" do most anything if the desire to do so is there. Forcing the desire never works. In most cases it will just cause most adults to just dig in their heals even harder.
I have been around long enough to remember when we lived with the motto...Live and let live......now it seems to be ....do it my way or you are doing it wrong.
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