New FDA policy conflicts with itself and vaping

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ENAUD

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My most favorite statement about the tobacco companies, and forgive me for not knowing the source or is I mis write it is, you got to admire the tobacco companies, they take something folks will crave, it costs a penny to make, and they sell it for a dollar.
 

listopencil

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There is stronger, better tasting, less tainted tobacco readily available. Nicotine is fairly expensive. Nicotine is at best mildly habit forming by itself. The process outlined above is one to maximize profits. There's no benefit as a business decision to adding nicotine. Ammonia makes more addiction. MAOI's mask symptoms. Denatured alcohol is a solvent for their cocktail. There are benefits to the company in these additions... profit. BT doesn't get much for a pack of smokes.We just pay a lot.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries

The benefit of adding more nicotine is to strengthen the addiction, just like the benefit of adding ammonia (which they left out of the video) that they discovered; more efficient delivery of the addictive substance. Strengthening the addiction. Their profits are driven by volume. It's an incredibly lucrative business. It's especially lucrative if you can get your customer base addicted to your product.
 
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listopencil

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My most favorite statement about the tobacco companies, and forgive me for not knowing the source or is I mis write it is, you got to admire the tobacco companies, they take something folks will crave, it costs a penny to make, and they sell it for a dollar.

Well, sure. A lot of people got have gotten wealthy doing essentially the same thing.
 

zelda

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I smoked because I wanted to. I was fully aware of the risks and I don't blame BT. My choice made of my own free will. Just like taking up vaping was. When I started very little was known of the effects of vaping. It was a gamble those of us who decided to vape were willing to take. I'm thankful I could think and act for myself and make my own choices without the government needing to watch out for me and make decisions for me.
 

beckdg

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The benefit of adding more nicotine is to strengthen the addiction, just like the benefit of adding ammonia (which they left out of the video) that they discovered; more efficient delivery of the addictive substance. Strengthening the addiction. Their profits are driven by volume. It's an incredibly lucrative business. It's especially lucrative if you can get your customer base addicted to your product.
More efficient farming with better yields and a better overall product = more profit.

Adding a small amount of very cheap ammonia to increase addiction by a factor of 100 = more profit.

Adding (nicotine) the single most expensive constituent of your product to achieve a (very small) fraction of a percent increase of addiction = stupidity and extremely poor management.

That's it, I'm done with this.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries
 

OldBatty

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Then that must have been a Long Time ago. LOL.

Not that long, cigarettes were about .50 cents a pack when I started smoking and there were already some taxes even then.

Oh, and there were still vendinig machines that sold cigarettes:)
 

listopencil

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More efficient farming with better yields and a better overall product = more profit. Adding a small amount of very cheap ammonia to increase addiction by a factor of 100 = more profit. Adding (nicotine) the single most expensive constituent of your product to achieve a (very small) fraction of a percent increase of addiction = stupidity and extremely poor management. That's it, I'm done with this.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries

Adding more nicotine when it's literally being dumped through your business on a daily basis = simple and easy.
 
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zoiDman

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Not that long, cigarettes were about .50 cents a pack when I started smoking and there were already some taxes even then.

Oh, and there were still vendinig machines that sold cigarettes:)

I believe the Film was made in the Mid 90's.

The Mid to Late 90's were a Terrible Time for BT. All kinds of Information was coming out about how for Years, Decades, BT had sought to manipulate Cigarette Tobacco to give it more "Kick". And there was a Lawsuit or Two. Not to Mention some Congressional Hearings.

And leading up to and as part of the eventual Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA), BT agreed to Release a lot of their Internal Documents and Tobacco Manipulations Studies.

I think this was when the Average person started to hear about things like Ammonia being added to Cigarette Tobacco. And other ways to "Freebase" Nicotine by changing ph levels.

I think a Lot of Hatred of BT came out of those times.
 

listopencil

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Not that long, cigarettes were about .50 cents a pack when I started smoking and there were already some taxes even then.

Oh, and there were still vendinig machines that sold cigarettes:)

I remember catching my school bus in the parking lot of a restaurant, it opened on a major two lane highway. There was a vending machine outside of the front door. The kind with those long knobs that you'd have to pull out to make your pack drop into the bin below. As I recall it was 35 cents a pack. You'd have to think that this was a pretty expensive price for a single pack, being in a vending machine. This was back in the early 80's.
 
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beckdg

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Adding more nicotine when it's literally being dumped through your business on a daily basis = simple and easy.
TOBACCO is being dumped through the business.

It would take more TOBACCO to get more nicotine in a cig.

Then you would have to EXTRACT that *nicotine* from the extra TOBACCO to spray it onto the tobacco you're going to use.

Then you would have to ISOLATE the nicotine.

After all this processing the *extra* nicotine would cost many times the price of the tobacco it came from.

A constantly reoccurring cost.

Splice some genes once and you never have to pay that cost again.

Farm more efficiently and you get higher yields with more nic at a LOWER COST.

This is a high production industry.

Profits are measured by the penny per skid or truck load of cartons.

Increasing production costs by dollars defeats the purpose.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries
 
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Tonee N

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I remember catching my school bus in the parking lot of a restaurant, it opened on a major two lane highway. There was a vending machine outside of the front door. The kind with those long knobs that you'd have to pull out to make your pack drop into the bin below. As I recall it was 35 cents a pack. You'd have to think that this was a pretty expensive price for a single pack, being in a vending machine. This was back in the early 80's.
I remember those machines, they were called "dislocated shoulder knobs". And you better pull the knob all the way out on the first attempt otherwise you weren't getting nothin!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

listopencil

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TOBACCO is being dumped through the business. It would take more TOBACCO to get more nicotine in a cig. Then you would have to EXTRACT that *nicotine* from the extra TOBACCO to spray it onto the tobacco you're going to use. Then you would have to ISOLATE the nicotine. After all this processing the *extra* nicotine would cost many times the price of the tobacco it came from. A constantly reoccurring cost. Splice some genes once and you never have to pay that cost again. Farm more efficiently and you get higher yields with more nic at a LOWER COST. This is a high production industry. Profits are measured by the penny per skid or truck load of cartons. Increasing production costs by dollars defeats the purpose.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries

No kidding. We've established that the nic comes from the tobacco. We've also established that, at the time of the video, they were extracting nicotine from the tobacco. They were already isolating it. So, no, this wouldn't cost many times the price of the tobacco. It was already being done. The question would be whether the costs of sacrificing tobacco for higher nic would be worth driving a preference for your brand. So you'd have to have access to those numbers to actually break it down. But seeing the amount of money that tobacco companies poured into advertising/merchandising I doubt that it would be a problem.
 

ENAUD

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No kidding. We've established that the nic comes from the tobacco. We've also established that, at the time of the video, they were extracting nicotine from the tobacco. They were already isolating it. So, no, this wouldn't cost many times the price of the tobacco. It was already being done. The question would be whether the costs of sacrificing tobacco for higher nic would be worth driving a preference for your brand. So you'd have to have access to those numbers to actually break it down. But seeing the amount of money that tobacco companies poured into advertising/merchandising I doubt that it would be a problem.
I can't see that reasoning, they explained how they manipuated unuseable portions of the plant, emulsified them into a paper to re incorporate it as a portion of the final blend. Basically using old stock returned product, stems and floor sweepings to bulk up the final product. It is not logical that they would waste resources to extract nicotine from usable product to Boost the overall nic, they accomplished their goal by manipulation of the product in the cheapest fashion possible.
 

listopencil

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I can't see that reasoning, they explained how they manipulated unusable portions of the plant, emulsified them into a paper to re incorporate it as a portion of the final blend. Basically using old stock returned product, stems and floor sweepings to bulk up the final product. It is not logical that they would waste resources to extract nicotine from usable product to Boost the overall nic, they accomplished their goal by manipulation of the product in the cheapest fashion possible.

Those weren't exactly floor sweepings. They were the tougher parts of the leaf, the structural parts. Those parts contained nicotine but would have roughened the texture inside the cigarette if used as is. They explained how those parts were treated to make them more pliable. And they stated that they only added back in the same nicotine that was extracted during this process. Of course they also stated that they didn't add in any extra nicotine during the process, they made a point of repeating that a few times.
 
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beckdg

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Those weren't exactly floor sweepings. They were the tougher parts of the leaf, the structural parts. Those parts contained nicotine but would have roughened the texture inside the cigarette if used as is. They explained how those parts were treated to make them more pliable. And they stated that they only added back in the same nicotine that was extracted during this process. Of course they also stated that they didn't add in any extra nicotine during the process, they made a point of repeating that a few times.
Watch it again.

They never mentioned extracting nicotine which is a difficult process.

They made a pulp that could be manipulated into a sheet.

During that process they lost a lot of the chemical makeup.

So they dehydrated the liquid the pulp was formed in to get what was leached from the plant to put it back.

This is far from extracting nicotine.

You could do this in your bath tub by accident.

You may never accomplish extracting nic on purpose if you dedicate your life to it

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries
 
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listopencil

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Watch it again. They never mentioned extracting nicotine which is a difficult process. They made a pulp that could be manipulated into a sheet. During that process they lost a lot of the chemical makeup. So they dehydrated the liquid the pulp was formed in to get what was leached from the plant to put it back. This is far from extracting nicotine. You could do this in your bath tub by accident. You may never accomplish extracting nic on purpose if you dedicate your life to it. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Guns don't kill people, virgins do! -Jim Jeffries

If nicotine isn't removed in the extraction process then why would they be claiming that the nicotine level in the RL is 20-25% lower than it would be in the raw materials?
 
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