New FDA regulations and effect on DIY?

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mhertz

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That's great! Of course everything can change later, we all know that, but getting confirmed that the current regulation is about not going after "non-finished" tobacco-products is atleast much better than what we all thought here :)

"At this time, FDA does not intend to enforce the premarket authorization requirements against such eliquids or other components and parts of newly deemed products that are sold or distributed solely for further manufacturing without a marketing order."

As for nic etc, then that would be the same situation as before the regulations i.e. "it's coming at some point..."

Still, stocking up is obviously the wisest move here anyways...
 

dethnode

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I have never made my own e liquid, i have read up on it, but as an accountant, and father of 3, just have never had the time...

Guess its time to make the time...

Move over frozen meat, my nicotine needs room in the deep freeze....

How long will Nicotine keep if frozen in glass bottles?
 

StormFinch

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I have never made my own e liquid, i have read up on it, but as an accountant, and father of 3, just have never had the time...

Guess its time to make the time...

Move over frozen meat, my nicotine needs room in the deep freeze....

How long will Nicotine keep if frozen in glass bottles?

Possibly indefinitely, according to one of our resident chemists.
 
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Sugar_and_Spice

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Ah, yeah, the do not intend bit. They said that about the seatbelt law in Indiana when it was first passed. They did not intend to pull people over for the sole purpose of enforcing the law. Now we are subject to week long periods where that is the sole reason for anyone being pulled over.

So, it will give folks some time until their whim changes and there is no planning for a whim.
Not only that, but 'others' are reading this and moving on it now, not waiting for August.
ie.. credit cards have already started to cancel vendors whom they suspect are selling the 'wicked' products. The did this a couple of years ago too.
 

Frocket

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I Hope one thing that people are Keeping in Mind is that what the FDA has recently released is considered "Foundational".

And this is By No Means the Only "Actions" that the FDA will/can take against e-liquids.
Exactly. The way the deeming regulation is written, the FDA can basically do whatever they want. In very few places does it mention any limits on their authority; it often states "intentions".

A lot can change in 2 years, so we'll see. Once Joe Q. Public figures out that e-cigs are being regulated and controlled even more than cigarettes, Mr. Public will start asking more questions.

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Hoosier

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Not only that, but 'others' are reading this and moving on it now, not waiting for August.
ie.. credit cards have already started to cancel vendors whom they suspect are selling the 'wicked' products. The did this a couple of years ago too.

Operation Choke Point. An administration tactic that has taken up a life of its own like these things are wont to do.
 

zoiDman

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Exactly. The way the deeming regulation is written, the FDA can basically do whatever they want. In very few places does it mention any limits on their authority; it often states "intentions".

A lot can change in 2 years, so we'll see. Once Joe Q. Public figures out that e-cigs are being regulated and controlled even more than cigarettes, Mr. Public will start asking more questions.

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The FDA can't exactly do whatever they want. They have to Operate within the Legal Authority that was given to it via Federal Legislation. It is in the Interpretation of this Authority that the problems have Occurred.

Because some Feel that the FDA has Already Overstepped this Authority. And their Actions have Not been consistent with a Public Health Policy that Benefits ALL people and have Not Been shown to be Based on Current Scientific Data.

The Long and the Short of it is that people should Not Think that what the FDA has released is a One-n-Done Policy. And things like Limiting Nicotine mg's per ml's or Restricting the Amount of ml's that are allowed in a Single Purchase would be well within their Authority.
 

Ronald3638

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OK, most people have said you need amber glass bottles for long-term storage of nic in a freezer.

If an amber glass container is needed to keep the light out when it's in the freezer then the freezer needs to be fixed so the light isn't on when the door is closed. :lol:

Once you take the bottle out of the freezer that's when the amber glass pays off.

I didn't have 12 amber containers when I bought my Nic so I keep the Nic that I have removed from the freezer in a light tight box.

When you take a bottle of Nic out of the freezer make sure to let it warm up to room temperature before opening the bottle. The moisture in the air will always migrate to the coldest point and you don't want water added to your Nic.:thumb:
 

schismz

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That's a reasonable and viable solution. Market it as a non-Nicotine vaping device such as a vitamin supplement or portable asthma vaporizer. I think simple relabling is a quick and easy solution. I think a lot of easy inexpensive work arounds are in order.
I haven't made it to the end of this thread, I'm somewhere on page 3 at the moment. But I'm unclear on how the FDA is going to enforce any restrictions on "ENDS" beyond marketing.

For instance, there's been a thriving industry that manufactures vaporizers for other molecules aside from nicotine (although they work just fine with tobacco). Storz Bickel for instance has sold the grandfather of all vaporizers the Volcano, since roughly the dawn of time (or around age 12 when I first heard of it for me). They market it as a vaporizer for aromatic herbs! And, it sure is. Despite the fact that 99.9% of the people who buy it, are using it to vaporize a schedule 1 substance (or what used to be a schedule 1 substance but is currently flat out legal where I live and a few other states, and accepted for medical use in 28 more states and counting. Okay it's a big mess, just like most things that involve government interference, where state laws are in conflict with federal laws, but the genie is out of the bottle, and raining down more tax money than anybody ever imagined possible in their best-case scenario projections, and it's not gonna get stuffed back in there, becuz, at the end of the day, everything is ALWAYS all about the money).

The FDA hasn't ever managed to remove any of these devices from the market, despite the fact that they exist for pretty much the sole purpose of vaping cannabis, without coming right out and actually saying that.

So I want to buy an "ENDS" to vape ... well, whatever I want to vape, but obviously not nicotine, never that! How are they gonna stop this? I just don't see it happening.

Nicotine may become unavailable, and if it is available, and they do something insane like tax it mg/ml, then that $100 liter of 100mg/ml nic, may end up costing $10,000 (or $92,000 if you live in NY state where cigarettes are $12 USD a pack). Which, to my understanding of reality vs. spin control, is exactly the desired end result: they want the money they're losing from cigarette sales and devaluation of tobacco bonds.
 
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Capt.shay

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The irony of all this is that in the old days they would throw you out of a "tobacco" shop if you referred to a glass pipe as any thing other than a "tobacco" pipe. In the future, you won't be able to mention tobacco when you go in to an "other stuff" shop to buy a vaporizer.

That is just plain messed up.
 
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tokarev

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Is is possible that nicotine base might be grandfathered? A quick web search indicates that the FDA banned nicotine lollipops in 2002. That is years before the 2007 grandfather date. I seem to recall seeing nicotine solution (in either PG or VG) for sale on Amazon some years ago for the purpose of making DIY nicotine lozenges and lollipops. If nicotine base in the form that we use for DIY was on the market prior to Feb. 2007 does that mean the FDA can't regulate it? Or at least that current products would qualify for the SE route instead of a PMTA?
 

Rossum

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s is possible that nicotine base might be grandfathered?
Anything is possible. But there's only one way to be SURE it will be grandfathered, and that's to own it and have physical possession of it before any "marketing" restrictions go into effect.
 

tokarev

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Anything is possible. But there's only one way to be SURE it will be grandfathered, and that's to own it and have physical possession of it before any "marketing" restrictions go into effect.

Absolutely! I have about 6 liters in the freezer already, and the vapocalypse box is full of mods, atomizers, clearos, etc. Taking the advice given here and elsewhere, I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
 

Frocket

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Nicopure's lawsuit may have some legs, since they're accusing the FDA of restricting free speech.

Companies cannot advertise vapor products as less harmful than cigarettes, cannot advertise them as "tobacco free" (even if they don't contain nicotine), and cannot make direct comparisons between vapor and cigarette smoke.

Nicopure is arguing that the regulations prevent companies "from making truthful and nonmisleading statements regarding vaping products". The Supreme Court has made rulings in the past regarding commercial free speech, and determined that as long as the speech is not misleading and concerns legal activity, regulations must be narrowly tailored to directly advance a substantial government interest.

The FDA may have to show that it's a substantial government interest to suppress companies from informing the public that smoking cigarettes is really, really bad, and using an e-cig is at least 95% less harmful.

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dannyv45

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Got an answer from my representitive as far as if he will support HR 2058. And his canned response was not very positive and told me nothing I didn't already know so I guess I will not be voting for him in the next election. Here's his response.

Dear Mr. (Blanked out):

;

Thank you for contacting me to express your thoughts on electronic cigarettes. Your opinion is very important to me, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.

;

As you know, the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (P.L. 111-31) gives the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) the authority to regulate cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, smokeless tobacco, and other tobacco products. I was a cosponsor of this legislation because it provides the FDA with the authority to take the necessary steps to reduce underage tobacco use.

;

On May 5, 2016, the FDA issued a final rule that extends its regulatory authority to include all tobacco products, including cigars, pipe tobacco, waterpipe tobacco, tobacco gels, dissolvable tobacco, and electronic cigarettes. Sales of cigars, waterpipe tobacco, and electronic cigarettes to minors will be prohibited as of August 3, 2016. All newly-regulated products that were introduced to the U.S. market after February 15, 2007, would need to meet public health standards set forth under the law and receive marketing authorization from the FDA. The FDA estimates that all newly-regulated products will continue to be sold for up to two years before the manufacturer submits a tobacco product application, and an additional year while the FDA reviews said application. The FDA will evaluate each newly-deemed tobacco product's ingredients, product design, and health risks, as well as their appeal to youth and non-users, before deciding whether to grant a marketing authorization order.

;

As you know, the FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act (H.R. 2058) was introduced in the House of Representatives on April 28, 2015, and referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce. If enacted, this legislation would exempt all newly-deemed tobacco products that in this recently finalized rule from FDA regulation if they were on the market before the final rule was issued. Hearings and markups of legislation before the House Energy and Commerce Committee are held at the discretion of its chairman. To keep track of this bill, I encourage you to visit the Committee's website (http://energycommerce.house.gov) as well as the Library of Congress's THOMAS website (http://thomas.loc.gov). A similar bill has yet to be introduced in the Senate.

;

Tobacco use is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States, and the best way to prevent tobacco deaths is to reduce tobacco use and prevent tobacco addiction. Please know that I will keep your support for electronic cigarettes and their role as an alternative to traditional cigarettes in mind should I have the opportunity to consider this issue in the future.

;

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.Please do not hesitate to contact me if I may be of further assistance. I invite you to visit my website (http://menendez.senate.gov) to learn more about how I am standing up for New Jersey families in the United States Senate.

;


 

dcdozer

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If you want glass bottles, you have to order their "Armor" product. IMO, the original V1 Armor is the best one to order for long-term storage. It comes in glass bottles and is argon-purged.
Hi Rossum - I just bought some v2 armor from them - why do you think v1 is best?
 
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