New Variable Voltage device from smoktech?

[VAPNJ350]

TRUE......Very well spoken 007. I am a electrical evgineer and just glancing at the specs posted above by skip seems a bit overkill,but then again I dont have any idea of the baseline information their going off of either. How did he even come up with those numbers. Owell,just keep vaping but do it safely as possible. Their is a new type of fusible link the you put on the negative end of your battery designed by chris at cherry vapes, matt from epipe mods, and I think Artisian that protects all mod situations from any kind of catastrophic damage. I encourage anyone and everyone with a mod to get one,their VERY cost effective.....check it out.

 

[John D in CT]

AFTER factoring in shipping the Panasonic CGRs are cheaper at SmartVapes if you are buying 2 or more. Singles are cheaper thru Orbtronic.

Now how did we get from VMax (that uses 18350s) to 18650 IMR batteries?

I blame Creniker, and Canada, and not necessarily in that order.

Hiya VAP - two quick things. [blah blah blah ...]

Also - could you please tell me the deal on Callie's Customs, and why their batteries are so highly regarded? I've been to their site, and there's just a discinnect for me between their apparent main specialty of T-shirts, and being the purveyor of a world-class battery. Did they design their batteries in-house?[??]. If not, who did, and who actually manufactures them? Again, thanks.

They are re-wrapped Panasonic's found here: CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

So there it is - the smoking gun. The old "18350/18650" switcheroo, the oldest trick in the book.

I just looked on that site and didn't see an equivalent in the 18350 size. Oh well, whaddyagonnado. I've already got my AW's anyway, and I'm pretty sure they'll do just fine.

AW IMR 18350 700mAh LiMN Rechargeable Lithium Battery

 

[John D in CT]

Right now, to my knowledge their is NOT a 18350 CGR panasonic cell out there and I've been searching high and low, in and out for 1 since I got my VAMX 3 weeks ago,maybe a month now.... however... I'm pretty confident that one is in the making since this size battery (18350) is becoming very popular. I think (my opinion) that when 1 product is sought after by the multitudes and they see the need for that same product in a different size or application it's only a matter of time when it's produced and released. The best thing we as the consumer can do is go to these sites that carry the 18650CGR and inquire if they will ever carry a 18350 size and the other popular sizes that we use in this industry, and asked them to please carry it,make it, produce it.....etc.....I have a kinda motto if you will that I have ALWAYS gone by : " A DEVICE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE POWER SOURCE RUNNING IT.....OR....A STEREO IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE WIRES SUPPORTING IT". You get the picture, this same concept can be used in many situations. So far it's served me pretty well. I ONLY use Monster Cable wiring with ALL my home and car audio setups,the best batteries in my devices etc... Think about it, we pay good hard earned money for our high end PV's why put a crappy battery in it. Personally,(opinion) trustfires, ultrafires, palight, soshine, etc... are just crappy subpar batteries, the wire used to support the PCB circuit in all of those are smaller than the thinnest hair on your head. They all have minimal to NO decent sustained amperage output. Do they work ?? .. Yep, do thay PERFORM ? NOPE !! And believe me their is a difference in the 2. Bottom line folks, you probably spent good money on your device that basically SAVED YOUR LIFE !! PLEASE don't cut corners to try and save a buck or 2 just to get cheap batteries. Do your research, get the best batteries money can possibly buy, you owe it to yourself , and your mod. ....Right ? Take care everyone and be safe out there. ............ J

I plan on running 6 gauge monster cable directly to my switch.

 

[lassep]

From our friends in malaysia.

"THE REASON THE VMAX IS ABLE TO HIT SO HARD

After days of research, measuring voltages, amps, calculating watts....I've finally found out why this thing feels like it's running at higher voltage than it actually measures out at. It's all due to the PWM, or pulse width modulation (btw, I had mixed this up with PCM in the early part of the review).



There's usually 2 ways PWM is implemented in e-cigs. Original Ego, and most of the Ego clones uses a PWM that maxes out at the voltage it is regulated at. The Akston SVR is a mod that uses PWM in this way. Example: if you set a mod with PWM at 5V, every time it pulses the power, the maximum it will go is 5V, then it goes back down to zero. This happens many times a second, so you won't feel it. Using this method, there are some cases where the performance will be a bit lower than an equivalent mod like the provari which provides constant, continuous voltage. This all has to do with the duty cycle, which is another story altogether. If done correctly, you could get almost the same performance as a constant voltage device, while reducing power consumption and giving you more vaping time on a single battery.



Anyway, the Vmax, uses a slightly different PWM method, where every time it pulses, the maximum voltage is actually slightly higher than the voltage you have set. Once the pulse goes back to zero, the next pulse will come along and the whole cycle repeats itself. What this means is, if measuring with simple equipment, you will find that the average voltage is close to the voltage you have set on the mod. If measured with something like an oscilloscope, you're gonna see the voltage going up and down multiple times every second. The average voltage is surprisingly constant from the time you stuff a freshly charged set of batteries into it, to when it's about to shut down and you're needing to change the batteries out. How high is the maximum voltage? Well, that's gonna be answered in the days to come, as I have a friend overseas who is trying to get it measured with more sensitive equipment and print out a report."

Aaaand there you go

 

[skipdashu]

@VAPNJ350 ... agreed!

 

[skipdashu]

From our friends in malaysia.

"THE REASON THE VMAX IS ABLE TO HIT SO HARD
...
Anyway, the Vmax, uses a slightly different PWM method, where every time it pulses, the maximum voltage is actually slightly higher than the voltage you have set. Once the pulse goes back to zero, the next pulse will come along and the whole cycle repeats itself. What this means is, if measuring with simple equipment, you will find that the average voltage is close to the voltage you have set on the mod. If measured with something like an oscilloscope, you're gonna see the voltage going up and down multiple times every second. The average voltage is surprisingly constant from the time you stuff a freshly charged set of batteries into it, to when it's about to shut down and you're needing to change the batteries out. How high is the maximum voltage? Well, that's gonna be answered in the days to come, as I have a friend overseas who is trying to get it measured with more sensitive equipment and print out a report."

I think we're on the same track here:

...but I'm sure it has something to do using the pulse width to regulate the voltage. The VMax is really hitting the coil with 8.x volts for a few milliseconds and then 0v and then 8.x volts again to get an average voltage (or RMS voltage) of what it's set to. To raise the voltage it keeps it on the high voltage for a wee bit longer. When the voltage is set lower it shortens the time it's on the high voltage. I'm GUESSING that somehow this results in what feels like a stronger hit at a lower voltage setting. Hmmm, I think I just convinced myself this is the reason. The short off time probably doesn't let the coil completely cool down and then it gets hit with the high voltage again. Be interesting to see if this has any noticeable effect on carto/atty life. Probably not if you run it at a lower voltage setting than you would on a constant voltage mod.

The mod should just increase the 'on' pulse width to compensate for a total battery voltage of 7.0v instead of 8.4v. It seems to be doing this. We'll see from their measurements when they come in.

L8r, Skip

 

[ChrispyCritter]

So there it is - the smoking gun. The old "18350/18650" switcheroo, the oldest trick in the book.

I just looked on that site and didn't see an equivalent in the 18350 size. Oh well, whaddyagonnado. I've already got my AW's anyway, and I'm pretty sure they'll do just fine.

AW IMR 18350 700mAh LiMN Rechargeable Lithium Battery

I think 18350's are just "oddball" batteries without as many uses as other ones (especially high drain ones) that's probably why they are harder to come by..it doesn't help that unprotected batteries are not sold by a lot of retailers to the general public (probably out of safety concern)...

 

[VAPNJ350]

Anyone who doesn't understand PWM (Pulse Width Mod.) scroll back up and read Lassep's post. He described it pretty well in a cliff notes kinda way,easy to understand even for a rookie electrician. GREAT JOB. The average voltage the VMAX puts out across the board is impressively consistent. I have seen the voltages jump pretty high on my scope to a nice low to make a consistant average right where I have it set, at some voltages .1-.2 higher underload. Example.... I had it set to 5v....the peak voltage I recorded was 7.4, the valley voltage was around 3.4-4.2......and the overall average voltage it was given me was 5.1v underload,I cant remember the duty cycle but if I remember correctly it was around 60-72% but don't quote me on the duty please,their were a LOT of numbers going thru my head that night. Anyway, I think it's amazing that it can do this so fast within a second that you have no idea it's even happening,then again Im amazed at all technology thats why I chose this feild for a career choice....I LOVE IT. Great post LASSEP !!!! Cant wait for your further findings and numbers to compare with mine if for nothing else but to see how accurate it one to the next is. HAPPY VAPING EVERYONE....BE SAFE!!

 

[skipdashu]

OK, so I finally let a pair of batteries run low in it. Not yet shut down but here's what I'm seeing as they get real close.

1) It 'feels' like my 5v (on a 2.9 ohm DC carto in a tank) is getting a touch soft. I'm assuming it just can't widen the on pulse long enough to maintain the same average or RMS it was doing with more voltage available to it. Now mind you this REAL close to shutoff. Up till now it was still a freight train.

2) Menu item 4 is showing 6.5v

3) Menu item 5 is set to show batter voltage and under load it's jumping between 6.1 and 6.3v but occasionally showing one of the following: "6.0v", "5.9v", "Lo"

4) When Menu item 4 is showing 6.3v the Menu 5 display goes nearly immediatly into "Lo" under load but it will fire, quit, fire, quit as the voltage jumps back up over 6v. It is functionally dead at this point and the batteries, no load, are sitting at 6.3v. But it didn't "throw E1" or really "turn off"... if you have Menu 5 on battery voltage it will flash "Lo".

I am pleased that it leaves the batteries at 6.3v or above. Pulled them out and checked 'em on the MN36 and I get 6.41v across both, 3.179 from top battery and 3.245 from the bottom one.

 

[VAPNJ350]

I was wondering when you were going to get to the end of your batteries and post about the "Lo" battery warning instead of a E1. lol. Usually at 6.3 you'll get the Lo warning/ flashing led/and the pulsing of the carto/atty. I like that is does multiple warnings,makes it idiot proof....I hope anyway. And the batteries are discharging thru their cycle pretty evenly from top to bottom. Good peace of mind.

 

[skipdashu]

Yea, I thought that 3.17 vs 3.24 was fairly good also and is definitely way closer than my LiFEPO4s come out of my unregulated stacked batter mod. On that thing the bottom battery always comes out lower.

I've been changing them out much earlier because the charger was handy and I had the time... got busy last night and this morning and didn't get to it until I saw 6.5v today.


BTW, Since I had to change over to the AWs...

AW IMR 18350 outside diameter: #1=0.7170" (18.2118mm); #2=0.7175 (18.2245mm)
VMaxx tail cap inside diameter: 0.720" (18.288mm)

U definitely should NOT experience battery rattle!



PS: The AW did fall out of tail-cap a couple seconds after I snapped this pic.
PPS: Yes, this is the #2 battery in the pic.

 

[KeysBum]

I wonder if I can use the RCR 123A's that I use in Buzz Pros?

 

[expat007]

TRUE......Very well spoken 007. I am a electrical evgineer and just glancing at the specs posted above by skip seems a bit overkill,but then again I dont have any idea of the baseline information their going off of either. How did he even come up with those numbers. Owell,just keep vaping but do it safely as possible. Their is a new type of fusible link the you put on the negative end of your battery designed by chris at cherry vapes, matt from epipe mods, and I think Artisian that protects all mod situations from any kind of catastrophic damage. I encourage anyone and everyone with a mod to get one,their VERY cost effective.....check it out.

Yeah, I saw that on one of Pbusardos Vapefest vids. They should be having the full blown rollout in June, in time for the Florida Vapestock or whatever they're calling it. They're also talking about making a size for a 14500, which would be great. I'm not too impressed with the AW 14500 IMRs, so I switched to the ICRs instead.

There is a huge back and forth with Roly thread about his safety standards. I read the whole thing and that's where I got the info about how these specs were developed. There was no lab testing, no input from other engineers. I get the impression that it was all seat of the pants empirical. AFAIK, Roly has a background in marine engineering, so I'm sure he knows all about galvanic reactions and electrolysis, but I'm not sure how germane that is to the task at hand. Nevertheless, he feels like since ECF is such a big marketplace, he can, at some point, enforce these standards by banning the sale of mods that don't meet them. I think he's softened that position somewhat, since the deadline has been a bit squishy lately, but AFAIK, he still intends to enforce it at some future date. It'll be interesting to see how he manages to bully a giant like Smoketech or Joye. Methinks he may be biting off more than he can chew if he tries.

Regardless, since this is such a big forum, just touting these specs as the be-all-and-end-all of safety standards creates a defacto situation. Already, people are acting like anything that doesn't meet those standards is just a bomb waiting to blow your face off. The hysteria over the recent Florida incident didn't help matters and manufacturers, like Chad from Silver Bullet fame, have been pressured to slot the Silver Bullet despite the fact that he's proven time and again that the vents behind the switch are perfectly adequate for the job. I'm waiting to see how many "compliant" mods end up malfunctioning or worse because of moisture, beer, pocket debris, or god knows whatall gets through those ridiculously large slots. And a "perforated tube". Puleeeze!!

 

[skipdashu]

Not Cigs took a punch because of "OMG stacked batts" even though that thing has every protection avail going to it. He did jump up and produce an ECF compliant version (you will pay for it) but still sells the regular one (TG).

What I heard Rolly say on VapeTV was that it was a standard and only bought you that ones that meet the guideline would be listed as such. Didn't hear "ban" used... but I might have nodded off.

 

[skipdashu]

I wonder if I can use the RCR 123A's that I use in Buzz Pros?

Batteries:
Protected Ultrafires don't fit.
AW IMR 18350s fit best.
Off-brand flat top IMRs fit (with magnet between them).
AW protected ICR 16340s fit (loosely but work).

Yup, RCR123 = 16340s

 

[expat007]

Yeah, like I said, he's softened up since the earlier times. I'm not sure what his intentions are anymore. I think a ban would be folly. Maybe some of his advertisers showed him the light.

 

[skipdashu]

Yeah, like I said, he's softened up since the earlier times. I'm not sure what his intentions are anymore. I think a ban would be folly. Maybe some of his advertisers showed him the light.

Yup, could be.

I also want to see what gets into it as it rides around in the console of some roofer's truck... or even worse, my wife's purse.

 

[John D in CT]

I think 18350's are just "oddball" batteries without as many uses as other ones (especially high drain ones) that's probably why they are harder to come by..it doesn't help that unprotected batteries are not sold by a lot of retailers to the general public (probably out of safety concern)...

Agreed, and also (somehow) makes me wonder out loud if we'll ever see an 18700; seems to me you could cram even more mahs into one battery that size than two 18350's.

I wonder if I can use the RCR 123A's that I use in Buzz Pros?

Yup, RCR123 = 16340s

Man oh man, I just wouldn't. I just hate to see batteries rattling around inside a device, even a llittle bit. For the cost of batteries, I'd just go for a nice snug fit.

And this brings me to something else: I have a Smoktech Woo (aka the M-80), and I've had trouble with using AW ICR 123's in it, but IMR 16340's work fine. I'm thinking that the ICR 123's, being protected, don't like the amount of drain that the Woo is calling for (depending on the load put on it), and they shut down. Is this likely what's going on? Also, also being a Smoktech product, will the VMax do better with unprotected batteries like the AW IMR 18650's that I've already bought for it than with protected batteries of the same size?

 

[VAPNJ350]

Yeah, I saw that on one of Pbusardos Vapefest vids. They should be having the full blown rollout in June, in time for the Florida Vapestock or whatever they're calling it. They're also talking about making a size for a 14500, which would be great. I'm not too impressed with the AW 14500 IMRs, so I switched to the ICRs instead.

I'm waiting to see how many "compliant" mods end up malfunctioning or worse because of moisture, beer, pocket debris, or god knows whatall gets through those ridiculously large slots. And a "perforated tube". Puleeeze!!

Me personally....I DO NOT want my tube mod to look like the end of my AR-15 Assault Rifle, at some point with all the slots,slits holes, valleys, gorges ya gotta wonder are we helping the issue or making it worse by compromising the structural integrity of the mod itself. CMON' PEOPLE!!!!

 

[VAPNJ350]

Yea, I thought that 3.17 vs 3.24 was fairly good also and is definitely way closer than my LiFEPO4s come out of my unregulated stacked batter mod. On that thing the bottom battery always comes out lower.

I've been changing them out much earlier because the charger was handy and I had the time... got busy last night and this morning and didn't get to it until I saw 6.5v today.


BTW, Since I had to change over to the AWs...

AW IMR 18350 outside diameter: #1=0.7170" (18.2118mm); #2=0.7175 (18.2245mm)
VMaxx tail cap inside diameter: 0.720" (18.288mm)

U definitely should NOT experience battery rattle!

View attachment 94802

PS: The AW did fall out of tail-cap a couple seconds after I snapped this pic.
PPS: Yes, this is the #2 battery in the pic.

WOOOOO! Hey man I've got 2 Vmax's and 8, 18350's and none of mine get stuck in the end cap at all,atleast 1mm or just over a mil to spare. What is going on with those AW's....did you ever over charge those past 4.23v to the point of swelling? IMR'should NEVER go past 4.23 volts out of the charger,if they do go get a ULTRAFIRE WF-188,IT CHARGES 18350 IMR in 42 minutes flat everytime to 4.21 volts flawlessly. You might want to keep a close eye on those batts,who did you get those thru? Just curious?